-Rebels In Need-

By RogueCommander, in Star Wars: Armada

So, as I find myself tinkering lists and strategizing, I am reminded of something that is really lacking in the Rebel camp: Rogue Bombers

Yes, we have Dash, but he's it. Not having a generic option like the Firespray is a significant gap.

Thoughts?

Also, what are some other thing that Rebs could use, squadron or otherwise?

I don't know that I agree. We have the YT-2400, which is A-Wing level annoying to deal with, and it has rogue.

Yes, it doesn't have the "bomber" key word, but it does as much ship damage on average as an X-Wing, and it's super beefy in squadron to squadron combat. I actually think the Rebel squadron list is very complete and the Imperial one is the weaker one, as there are many generics (Interceptor, YV-666, etc.) I would never consider using, but I can see a use for every single rebel squadron.

Yes, even the H-6 Scurrg.

Going to have to side with Reinholt here. The lack of Rogue Bombers for the Rebels is not all that great a handicap, lest we forget how many different Rebel units have Bomber. Rebel squadrons may not synergize across the board as well as the Imperial forces, but one must also remember that Rebel forces are much better able to handle themselves without relying on the mutual support that makes TIE units effective in pitched combat. In Wave 1, it took considerable Imperial effort to overthrow Rebel space superiority. Now, with R&V, the playing field is, at worst for the Rebels, leveled, and you lot still have Jan Ors to muck things up. I wouldn't bemoan your position too loudly.

I also do not feel as though Rebels have a problem due to lack of Rogue bombers. Rebel bombers are superlative at their jobs (Y-Wings, B-Wings, and Scurrgs) but require some babysitting by carriers to unlock their true potential. The good news is Rebels have ship-to-squadron synergy nailed down easily and this is achievable without too much trouble.

I'd say similarly to how Rebel bombers need babysitting, Imperial fighters need babysitting. You can go with the Aggressor as a Rogue fighter squadron but its damage output for the points compared to your TIE options is appalling.

I notice how much rogue love the villoans got vs the rebel side. Hell our name bomber pilot either freezes the other ship or lets you reroll the lead pilots dice only. Vs rhymer that triples range.

Maybe Dutch should of let all y wings in range 1 freeze a squadron they dmg. Or kay lets all bombers in range 1 reroll their dice of no shields.

I notice how much rogue love the villoans got vs the rebel side. Hell our name bomber pilot either freezes the other ship or lets you reroll the lead pilots dice only. Vs rhymer that triples range.

Maybe Dutch should of let all y wings in range 1 freeze a squadron they dmg. Or kay lets all bombers in range 1 reroll their dice of no shields.

Rebel squadrons aren't really designed to have as much internal synergy as the Imperial squadrons. That's just how they are. You get little bits here and there (like the Dutch+Wedge teamup or the Jan Ors + X-Wings synergy) but I think you're asking for something that's just inherently against the way Rebels are designed. Might as well have an Imperial asking for 5 hull TIEs.

@snipafist, asking for 5 health ties!!that would be completely ridicules!

Considering we all ready have The TIE/ADV and the TIE/BOM which already have 5 hull :P

Edited by clontroper5

You know what I meant ;)

You know what I meant ;)

I'm not sure I do.

How are the Rebels inherently designed? Independent and flexible platforms that are stronger on their own than with some 'combo'? If that's the inherent design, then a rogue bomber makes sense.

@snipafist, asking for 5 health ties!!that would be completely ridicules!

Considering we all ready have The TIE/ADV and the TIE/BOM which already have 5 hull :P

I'm going to have a giggle more so when the Tie Defender shows up...and then things get REALLY scary.

However, the Rebel fighters don't really...eh...need rogue bombers...I mean consider the fact all of their fighters come with a base black dice from the get go and none are below 4 health...without some form of counter?

We're also talking before upgrades...

Yet I will admit my main focus is Imperial fighter builds.....

you really don't need a Rogue bomber when the YT-2400 kicks twelve kinds of ass

seriously, the poor aggressor weeps with envy

as for rebel v imperial bombers, imps got the range (to balance the opposite end of the scale: their short range ships) and rebs got the punch with no range (again, an opposite to their long range, lower punch). Firesprays are neat, but they're still only putting out bomber levels of damage. Nothing quite compares to B-wings in terms of sheer "**** you" firepower

You know what I meant ;)

I'm not sure I do.

How are the Rebels inherently designed? Independent and flexible platforms that are stronger on their own than with some 'combo'? If that's the inherent design, then a rogue bomber makes sense.

In one element, yes, but that's not the entire story.

Since wave one Rebels have had more bombers than the Imperials by far and have had more potent bombers (the Gladiator-slagging B-Wings and now the Scurgg) as well as having more multi-use squadrons that can act as bombers if necessary (X-Wings and A-Wings). The one thing Imperials have had going for them bomber-wise is that their bombers have always required less babysitting by carriers (see: the Rhymberball-bunker). This trend continues into wave two. It seems deliberate and given how good Rebel bombers tend to be, especially when combined with ships like the Yavaris or Independence, I don't see a compelling reason to change that.

It also makes sense when you consider the fluff. The Rebels fighter pilots are a band of brash, egotistical, self-described "aces" who think they're the best and are going to prove it. Individually they can outfly pretty much every Imperial pilot out there (think Poe Dameron or Wedge). And while their squadron surely follows them for the ungodly being they are, the next squadron over has their own pilot-idol that they worship, and won't take orders from anyone else. So while each individual squadron will perform its role incredibly well, they won't synergize with other squadrons. And that's how the Rebellion operates. Hit-and-run tactics with small forces. They're not designed to work in massive swarms, because massing up means it's easier for the gigantic Imperial Navy to track you down and destroy you.

Then take the Imperials. Every Imperial pilot goes through the Academy. They have submission to authority and working within the larger whole drilled into them every day for years. Some pilots are bound to stand out, but even so they're going to stand out primarily as leaders that function best in a large group. And that's how the Navy operates. Large-scale operations where you achieve victory through superior numbers and overwhelm the enemy. In that environment, someone who functions by making those around him better is far more valuable.

Of course, both sides have their exceptions (Jan Ors and Darth Vader, for example), but that basic design with squadrons works to keep things fluffy and balance things out.

It's also flipped with the ships. Rebel ships have complementary abilities that make each other better and work well as a larger whole. Imperial ships are designed to show up and dominate all by themselves (think of the Tarkin Doctrine). Most of the Rebel ship titles are designed to improve their allies, while most Imperial titles are designed to make that ship deadlier.

The YT2400 is a rogue anti ship squadron. The issue is it comes with a high price because of its anti fighter skills.

Rebels have a unit thats just too good. Which makes sense.

If you stick to the story line and how the Rebs used fighters (Independent forces with their own hyper drives going into combat with no Capital ships ) they all should have rouge (typo rogue). :D

Edited by ouzel

If you stick to the story line and how the Rebs used fighters (Independent forces with their own hyper drives going into combat with no Capital ships ) they all should have rouge. :D

It's important to look fabulous when you take on evil space fascism.

Wait. . . rebels lack in something? I could of sworn that my last 2 Store Championships were won by rebels. . .

Wait. . . rebels lack in something? I could of sworn that my last 2 Store Championships were won by rebels. . .

Come on Lyraeus keep up.......Rebels are lacking in one fundamental way...... They are not inherently weaker than the imps and therefore reduce the opportunity for rubbish players to blame their losses on the faction they are playing.... And moan that if only they had got an imp fleet......

This also works for the imps......

your a bunch of rotters FFG, fancy making a well balanced game..... How can I play the victim now......

I'm not saying that Rebels can't win because of this, of course. It's an observation that the Rebels got 1 rogue and the Imps 2, one of which has that lovely 'bomber' designation.

I'm not talking about anything other than a baseline parity of ship type that would open up other options for Rebels. I'm not even sure it's a complaint, or moaning about it not being fair, it would just be a nice tactical option.

I really don't understand why the Scurggs didn't get Rogue. It certainly would make them worth their price point. Maybe it would bring the squadron game out of whack, But maybe not. Maybe I'm thinking greedy. >shrug<

I totally get the (largely Imperial) POV on this, though. Three squad command control Wave 1 ships with bomber X, Y and B, compared to 1 on the Imp side, just the Tie/B I believe.

More than a rogue bomber generic, I'd like a cheaper carrier for the rebs. Neb-B escort is 1 squad pt too small for my tastes and there's only one Raymus Antilles.

I'm hoping the Imp Light Carrier (Quasar) is a squadron 3 or 4, sub 70 point ship. I'm also hoping we get a Pelta that's basically a squadron 2 cmd 2 CR90 that's appropriately costed (sub 60?)

I'm not saying that Rebels can't win because of this, of course. It's an observation that the Rebels got 1 rogue and the Imps 2, one of which has that lovely 'bomber' designation.

I'm not talking about anything other than a baseline parity of ship type that would open up other options for Rebels. I'm not even sure it's a complaint, or moaning about it not being fair, it would just be a nice tactical option.

I really don't understand why the Scurggs didn't get Rogue. It certainly would make them worth their price point. Maybe it would bring the squadron game out of whack, But maybe not. Maybe I'm thinking greedy. >shrug<

I totally get the (largely Imperial) POV on this, though. Three squad command control Wave 1 ships with bomber X, Y and B, compared to 1 on the Imp side, just the Tie/B I believe.

3, actually. Only the Jumpmaster doesn't have Rogue. :D

Then again, the Jumpmaster sucks compared to the Rebel's HWK-290. And there's the very real disadvantage that Imperials have in the squadron game when building for an unknown opponent. That wonderful Imperial anti-squadron synergies don't do much against squadron-light opponents. And other than the super expensive (18 pts!) Firespray, our anti-ship squadrons are garbage at defending themselves. Meanwhile, Rebels get ships like the A-Wing and X-Wing, which hit ships decently well, kill squadrons, and have enough hull points to survive a couple of rounds of ships firing at them.

Imperials have to play a guessing game with their squadrons, and if they guess wrong, they're at a disadvantage. Rebels just bring their good all-rounders and get value from them.

Isn't it an interesting Dynamic... That Imperial Squadrons are almost the exact opposite of Imperial Squadrons, and that this is also mirrored for the Rebels...