You don't automod five hits; you need a focus present after youve spent a lock to fire (or another focus with deadeye)

And at that point, you basically have an expected five hits on prockets

Bring down APT to 3 Points and Rhymer might be worth his horrendous tax.

Rhymer 26

PTL 3

APT 3

Clusters 3 (https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/203586-we-need-a-price-check-on-missiles/?p=2070129)

EM 2

Chimps 0

= 37 points is an ok price for this amount of firepower, and there is enough room for a decent escort of eg. 3 x AC Tempest to block and lock.

Ion Torpedoes: 4

Weaker firepower than a Proton Torpedo, but with the added AOE ionization. These should be the same price as Protons.

Ion Torpedoes have the same firepower as Proton Torpedoes, but they have a lower damage average, which is what I think you mean. I think Ion Torps are brilliant....for specific things. The latest meta usually has only a few ships in a list and this torpedo does well when the enemy has a lot of ships. So, if you are facing off vs. a 3 ship meta, can see it not being as valuable. Against 4 x TLT's or a Tie Swarm, though, it's amazing. I think this is one that it isn't as good in the current meta due to what the meta is, but it is priced reasonably. Just use it for non tournament games that are over 100 pts.

Ion Torpedoes have the same firepower as Proton Torpedoes, but they have a lower damage average, which is what I think you mean.

Yes, I was referring to the expected damage output - they have the same firepower in terms of them rolling the same number of dice, but Protons will usually generate one more hit result.

They do have a niche, but I think the AOE ion is less powerful than the AOE damage of an Assault Missile, and so I think it should be a point cheaper.

Ion Torpedoes have the same firepower as Proton Torpedoes, but they have a lower damage average, which is what I think you mean.

Yes, I was referring to the expected damage output - they have the same firepower in terms of them rolling the same number of dice, but Protons will usually generate one more hit result.

They do have a niche, but I think the AOE ion is less powerful than the AOE damage of an Assault Missile, and so I think it should be a point cheaper.

Depends on the type of game you are playing. If you are playing Epic, then ionizing everyone at R1 can be a lot more powerful than just 1 damage. It can allow your Epic ship to avoid the fighter swarm for an extra round, or your CR-90 to escape a trap. It can also let you ram a swath of ships in the next turn with an Epic, too. When you deal with a larger number of ships, the control aspect becomes more powerful. Epic is all about placement and getting the right resources in on time.

You don't automod five hits; you need a focus present after youve spent a lock to fire (or another focus with deadeye)

And at that point, you basically have an expected five hits on prockets

With a TL & Focus behind them, PRockets have a 72.4% chance of getting 5 hits. Under the same circumstances (though it spends the TL to fire), an APT has a 98.4% chance of 5 hits.

So yes, the guy firing the PRocket is expecting to get 5 hits, but the guy firing the APT knows he's getting 5 hits. I think that's worth an extra point.

Yup. You almost need a TL with Prockets too. I've had Prockets fail me more than I want to think about when I just had a focus to modify the dice.

Prockets are a good comparison to APT, and I do think that APT compares favorably. One thing I would point out is that Prockets have the additional downside of only working really well on agility 3 ships... whereas APT works just fine on anything that has a torpedo slot. It's an overall more damaging weapon, and I think the 1pt price premium is justified.

Depends on the type of game you are playing. If you are playing Epic, then ionizing everyone at R1 can be a lot more powerful than just 1 damage. It can allow your Epic ship to avoid the fighter swarm for an extra round, or your CR-90 to escape a trap. It can also let you ram a swath of ships in the next turn with an Epic, too. When you deal with a larger number of ships, the control aspect becomes more powerful. Epic is all about placement and getting the right resources in on time.

It will be interesting to see if, over time, certain upgrades that were considered overpriced in regular games will become overpowered in an Epic setting. That makes pricing stuff awkward - do you just accept that certain upgrades won't be good in certain settings, or do you try to have a different point cost depending on the game scale?

(trick question - having multiple different point values would be confusing and awful)

No one else on board with free Extra Munitions? I don't think it needs to cost anything personally.

Depends on the type of game you are playing. If you are playing Epic, then ionizing everyone at R1 can be a lot more powerful than just 1 damage. It can allow your Epic ship to avoid the fighter swarm for an extra round, or your CR-90 to escape a trap. It can also let you ram a swath of ships in the next turn with an Epic, too. When you deal with a larger number of ships, the control aspect becomes more powerful. Epic is all about placement and getting the right resources in on time.

It will be interesting to see if, over time, certain upgrades that were considered overpriced in regular games will become overpowered in an Epic setting. That makes pricing stuff awkward - do you just accept that certain upgrades won't be good in certain settings, or do you try to have a different point cost depending on the game scale?

(trick question - having multiple different point values would be confusing and awful)

...and the meta can change. Right now we see a lot of 3 ship lists. What happens if the meta shifts to be 4-6 ship lists...or even swarms more often? It would be worth it then, I bet.

No one else on board with free Extra Munitions? I don't think it needs to cost anything personally.

That would be a big buff to the big ordnance carriers.

If we go back in time... I would almost rather just have all the ordnance in the game be a point or two cheaper, so that ships like X-Wings could efficiently carry them. As a brainstorm, elminate Extra Munitions, and then do:

Advanced Proton Torpedoes 2

Let's do this again. How do we feel about the costs of these upgrades today?

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

TORPEDOES

Advanced Proton Torpedoes (6)

Bomb Loadout (0)

Extra Munitions (2)

Flechette Torpedoes (2)

Ion Torpedoes (5)

Plasma Torpedoes (3)

Proton Torpedoes (4)

Seismic Torpedoes (2)

Effective pricing on ordnance can very wildly by the ship that you are equipping them to. For single torp slot ships with a native 3 attack they are all over costed by around 2 points. Lower attack ships get more benefit so are over costed by about 1 point. Once Extra Munitions came out it fixed the pricing for ships with multiple ordnance slots but also ensured that ordnance would forever be over costed for ships with only one slot.

With the proliferation of TL sharing abilities, is it really true that ordnance is overcosted for single slot ships? (To say nothing of the successful Procket Aces we were seeing a lot of last year.)

4 minutes ago, PaulTiberius said:

With the proliferation of TL sharing abilities, is it really true that ordnance is overcosted for single slot ships? (To say nothing of the successful Procket Aces we were seeing a lot of last year.)

Not all ordinance, just torpedos.

Whould you ever put a torpedo on...

An Xwing? A Fang fighter? an Ewing?

No but I would make the argument that they don't need them at all, and making them cheaper just sounds like power creep, do you really want corran to shoot, then follow with a torpedo like proton. And fenn is gross enough lol. X wing is the only one who could use it, but maybe a new nifty title is enough take it worth it. Drop the cost of a torpedo by 2 for free. Then we might see more x wings,

But for the most part 3 dice and up ships don't really need them, getting consistent target lock focus taken care of can suffice for their power. I just think it's more balanced for low attack power ships to want to take them

3 hours ago, Rakaydos said:

Whould you ever put a torpedo on...

An Xwing? A Fang fighter? an Ewing

Yes to the first two. Wes and Wedge one-two punching people with Plasmas and Protons is actually surprisingly effective, and Fenn with an Assault Proton Torp is hilarious.

I was thinking about something like:

Binayre Pirate (12)
Concussion Missiles (4)
Scavenger Crane (2)
Guidance Chips (0)

Binayre Pirate (12)
Concussion Missiles (4)
Scavenger Crane (2)
Guidance Chips (0)

Binayre Pirate (12)
Concussion Missiles (4)
Scavenger Crane (2)
Guidance Chips (0)

Binayre Pirate (12)
Concussion Missiles (4)
Scavenger Crane (2)
Guidance Chips (0)

Constable Zuvio (19)
A Score to Settle (0)
Bombardier (1)
Conner Net (4)
Targeting Synchronizer (3)

Total: 99

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

It depends exactly how Targeting Synchronizer works, but this could be a great alpha list, with a scary follow-up punch.

It is not really the pricing (although giving more MOV to your opponent doesn't help) but more of the builds that needs to be fixed.

It has been mentioned that when a "miracle build" aka the pre-timing contracted scouts it fixed all the problems torpedoes had (target locking hire pilot skill, the inability for double torps to pin down arc dodgers, spending TL for a single 4 dice attack is worse than saving TL for a reroll on a 3 dice attack). The being said it became too good because any ship that couldn't survive a volley (and even a decimator wouldn't last long) would be gone. Then came the timing and the pen and ink errata changes and now nothing is there because TIE Bombers don't have any help (crew, astromech) to mark and deliver their attacks.

As for missiles well the Homing missile (not advance homing missile) has been good at chasing down x-7s. But again that is a build for a very specific case through most of the previous waves meta there was absolutely no use for wasting 5 points on the missile slot. If you want prockets good luck because there is no missile+salvaged astromech ship to deliver that. Prockets R4 agro would have worked perfectly.

Nothing's changed for me in the past year to make me think any different. Should I?

Advanced Protons are still too expensive for what they do.

Edit: removed missile discussion to correct thread

1 hour ago, heychadwick said:

Nothing's changed for me in the past year to make me think any different. Should I?

Looking at it now, I think Extra Munitions could have been 1 point. Get a little more bang for your buck (pun intended).

I think Extra Munitions is fine at 2 pts.

Yeah 2 points is spot on,because it gives you two of everything equiped, which really adds up the more you have on your ship

27 minutes ago, TheOz said:

Yeah 2 points is spot on,because it gives you two of everything equiped, which really adds up the more you have on your ship

Except that, by and large, you should not be equipping more than one Torpedo or Missile to your ship.

3 minutes ago, Punning Pundit said:

Except that, by and large, you should not be equipping more than one Torpedo or Missile to your ship.

Well that's not the case for miranda, as it also multiplies bombs, same for wardens, or deathfire who people seem throw homing missile and the net on. But at 2 points it's easily worth it to multiply any 4 or 5 point upgrade, and if you have another, it's just money...even of it isn't a smart idea for 100 point squads