I'd say deathfire is the best bomber the imperials have, just because he is cheap,I love deathrain, But he just costs too much after a good 4 point bomb and extra munitions. for imperials, bombs are just an afterthought, like the third wheel next to two super aces. And Ion bomb is great on a decimator. But yeah no real reason to throw bombs on scum, but they have enough toys as it is right now lol

Well some of the best bombers just don't have a good pilot skill. You have Azzeman which also has the andrastia or slave 1 E< title to be able to carry multiple bombs but that becomes a heavy investment with not a strong follow-up after you drop the bombs (Firesprays are rarer than classic X-wings in the meta).

With bombs you need two things.

1. High Pilot Skill
2. Bomb placement adjustment

The first one is fairly doable the second one is neigh impossible. You have only 2 pilots and 2 upgrades that can do that.

• Azameen
• Constable Zuvio
• "Geinus"
• Bombardier

Other than Zuvio there is not any that have a high pilot skill and Zuvio doesn't have a torpedo slot for EM, he has to use the salvage crane which will likely not be killing a ship with a single bomb and there are much better things to put in that illicit slot. Bombardier takes a crew slot so only K-wings, Firesprays, and Decimators and Geinus is on a Y-wing but again you will need to put EU or something to keep from blowing yourself up.

Just like torpedoes, pricing is fine, it is the builds that are lacking, and as the meta progress mroe and more the build is going to be the decidign factor on what upgrade gets used or what ship is meta or DOA.

I think old school x wing tactics of thinking turns ahead and predicting your opponent is all a bomb player needs, we know how defenders fly, we know how stressed dengar flies, we know how biggs lists fly, etc etc ...high ps helps and options for where to drop it help, but low ps can bomb just fine, it's just that sabine makes bombs really competitive, neither factions have what rebels have in Sabine.

35 minutes ago, Marinealver said:

With bombs you need two things.

1. High Pilot Skill
2. Bomb placement adjustment

Warden Squadron Pilots are competitive bombers that don't rely on either of those.

Why is everyone complaining that Cluster Mines are to experience and only have a 3/8 chance to hit? Has everybody forgotten about the errata?

From FAQ, page 2:

"Bomb Tokens Reference Cards #4, #6

The Cluster Mines section of these cards should read: • Cluster Mine Token: When one of these bomb tokens detonates, the ship that moved through or overlapped that token rolls 2 attack dice and suffers 1 damage for each hit and crit rolled. Then discard that token"

52 minutes ago, Duskwalker said:

Why is everyone complaining that Cluster Mines are to experience and only have a 3/8 chance to hit? Has everybody forgotten about the errata?

From FAQ, page 2:

"Bomb Tokens Reference Cards #4, #6

The Cluster Mines section of these cards should read: • Cluster Mine Token: When one of these bomb tokens detonates, the ship that moved through or overlapped that token rolls 2 attack dice and suffers 1 damage for each hit and crit rolled. Then discard that token"

Because somebody pointlessly necroed a bunch of old threads from before the FAQ.

56 minutes ago, Stay On The Leader said:

Because somebody pointlessly necroed a bunch of old threads from before the FAQ.

Well fuck me then.

Bombs are priced fine, although you could argue that Conner Net should come down a point. However, the main reason they're seeing a lot of play right now is because of Sabine and Advanced Slam which makes dropping them and inflicting damage much more reliable. I'd love to see some more non-rebel bomb love to make them me viable for the other factions. For example, in another thread there was a suggestion of a title that would allow TIE Bombers to drop bombs while stressed (think Primed Thrusters for bomb actions), which would give them more options for applying bombs.

2 hours ago, Stay On The Leader said:

Because somebody pointlessly necroed a bunch of old threads from before the FAQ.

I'm not sure that's fair. It's interesting to see how perspective on pricing and value has or hasn't changed over time. We all agreed that cluster mines were garbage. They got a fix via errata. Vindication!

As has been mentioned the issues with bombs are:

1. Sabine makes Rebel bombs WAY better than Imperial or Scum. I think both factions need a crew or illicit that gives bombs a boost.
2. Proximity mines are not really a viable alternative to cluster mines.

My proposal:

1. Scum: discard illicit that "overcharges" a bomb token. When removed all ships at range 1 roll a die and take any damage rolled. Imperial: mass production mod that decreases cost of bombs.
2. Errata Prox mines so they are not removed until the end of the phase.

Deathfire makes Imperial bombs ok, or at least makes Conner Net playable.

I think there's room for an upgrade/mod that makes Focus count as damage when rolling bombs, but yeah I agree that Imperials in particular need a bombing buff. Scum doesn't actually feel too much like they'd use bombs and they've got enough other stuff their faction does, but the faction with Bombers and Punishers really should get some love.

On the whole though, bombs & automatic damage in general are a pretty shit mechanic and you can't make them too good or they'll be all you ever see.

6 hours ago, DagobahDave said:

Warden Squadron Pilots are competitive bombers that don't rely on either of those.

well, they can adjust bomb placement with adv. SLAM

course the advantage of high PS is only relevant for drop on dial reveal bombs because you can guarantee they'll go off for damage

with ACTION bombs, you want the complete exact opposite to allow overlap on ships before they've even activated. Hence, Warden squaddies with adv. SLAM

15 hours ago, Makaze said:

The real problem with their absolute pricing though is Sabine. They're somewhat underpowered without her meaning that Imperial and Scum lists just don't really run bombs all that often (and never as their primary means of dealing damage).

Personally, I think they are fine as is. The real issue is that they are just so GOOD with Sabine that people think they aren't worth it without her. Maybe it's the power creep effect, but I think Bombs are fine for other factions. It's so funny to throw out a Seismic every now and again on someone and have them scramble to get out of it's way. People just forget about those and they are pretty cheap.

7 hours ago, Marinealver said:

With bombs you need two things.

1. High Pilot Skill
2. Bomb placement adjustment

I do not agree that you need high PS to be an effective Bomber. Many low PS are even better than high ones. You can drop a Bomb/Mine on someone before they have even gone and still do all the damage to them. Or drop it in front of them after they have already picked their dial. It's a very powerful thing.

Ok, I love bombs, they are highly effective. A low PS bomber with mines can deny a large area to aces, and a higher PS bomber with bombs can be devastating as well. Sometimes you can plant a prox mine under an ace and there's nothing they can do about it.

I think mines/bombs are priced pretty well. One thing people forget about cluters and prox mines is you can reshape he battlefield with them. Drop one and close off a lane for a large base ship, causing them to go the long way around or force them into a known position you can exploit. You can effect small ships a lot too, and totally mess up someone's plan. In ground combat, combat engineers will often use trenches, tank traps, etc to reshape the battle field, forcing the enemy into a funnel, or cutting off an approach. the persistent nature of clusters and prox mines makes them more valuable than just the red dice they throw. Like ion cannons, flechette cannons, and R3-A2, control is powerful if used well. A cluster mine or two could keep a decimator out of the fight while you finish off the wingmen, then turn and open that can. In that instance the clusters or prox have helped you win the game without ever doing damage.

1 hour ago, heychadwick said:

Personally, I think they are fine as is. The real issue is that they are just so GOOD with Sabine that people think they aren't worth it without her. Maybe it's the power creep effect, but I think Bombs are fine for other factions. It's so funny to throw out a Seismic every now and again on someone and have them scramble to get out of it's way. People just forget about those and they are pretty cheap.

Meh 1 damage... if you hit with it... it's generally not worth it. I expect 2 points in my list to pull more weight than that. Sure you can splash them in to sometimes good effect. But the lack of Sabine means the other factions simply can't run an effective bomb centric list. Maybe that's OK. My point was more even if we decided that bombs were slightly overcosted you couldn't realistically change them due to Sabine.

Quote

I do not agree that you need high PS to be an effective Bomber. Many low PS are even better than high ones. You can drop a Bomb/Mine on someone before they have even gone and still do all the damage to them. Or drop it in front of them after they have already picked their dial. It's a very powerful thing.

It depends on bomb type. On reveal bombs are better on high PS ships so you know exactly where your targets will be and they can't boost/barrel roll away from the bomb. While action bombs are better on low PS ships as it allows you to dial in your movement to drop directly onto or in front of them before they move.

9 hours ago, DagobahDave said:

Warden Squadron Pilots are competitive bombers that don't rely on either of those.

Those are mines, but really they are just an unmodified attack if you play it right. But no more than an unmodified 2 or 3 dice attack.

As for proton bombs, seismic charges, thermal detonators those are utter garbage right now because there are no builds for them. Also Wardens are better as TLT carriers with mines as a side. Putting mines on a Warden is like putting a seismic charge (or even another cluster mine) on a decimator.

12 minutes ago, Makaze said:

Meh 1 damage... if you hit with it... it's generally not worth it. I expect 2 points in my list to pull more weight than that. Sure you can splash them in to sometimes good effect. But the lack of Sabine means the other factions simply can't run an effective bomb centric list. Maybe that's OK. My point was more even if we decided that bombs were slightly overcosted you couldn't realistically change them due to Sabine.

It's true that it depends on what you are facing, but recall that it's 1 damage to all in R1. Not just 1 damage. It might not sound like much if you only have 2-3 ships in a list, but I was able to kill 3 ships in one turn with 3 Seismic Charges thrown at one time. They were all overlapped and it blasted 3/5th of his list in one go.

I also dropped 4 Seismic Charges and had a YT-2400 land right on top of all of them during his movement in the same Store Championship. I dropped his shields to 1 without firing a shot. That same turn saw 2-3 Homing Missiles finish it off. I dropped a YT-2400 down in one turn with the help of Seismic Charges.

Yes, it's only 1 damage if you only catch one, but it can also be stacked. Even besides that, you will often see people want to veer away for a turn to avoid it. That can be used to your advantage if done right. Also, don't dismiss just 1 damage to one target in the age of Palpatine and /X7 Defenders. Every hit counts.

I think they are fairly priced WITH extra munitions, otherwise they should cost two more and have two charges for a single bomb slot (no extra munitions allowed). I also feel this way about other munitions (missiles and torpedoes) but I also believe they should be range 3-5 (except the range 1).

Bombs should be boring, not too great of an effect in a fast game...but shape the battlefield. There is a whole discussion about actual mines vs bombs, how placed and costs. They would normally only be placed in a controlled space by one side (and preset) or to dissuade anyone following them. Most ships would not want to place them in a dogfight because then they would have to remember or have navigation system tell them where they dropped them....I bet most pilots would not be too good at managing this additional piece of information.

Sabine helps them fit in the 100 point list. Of course....she is almost too good due to fact she does not have to be the one placing them and no range restriction (same as EP and Manaroo).

Interesting thread; I agree with the sentiments on pricing, most are dead on.

My rub is that although K-Wings are good bombers, Y-Wings can do a good bomb run. But, TIE Bombers, in my humble opinion, are actually better missile boats than bombers. And the Imperial TIE platform for bombing doesn't price out for its stats to do the job, so that's the real spot to fix.

Again, bunny trail.......

People need to factor in that Sabine makes Bombs insanely effective for Rebels.

Bombs priced at a reasonable level for Imperial/Scum will make them way to good for Rebels, and they are already VERY good for rebels

On 2/7/2017 at 11:25 AM, heychadwick said:

It's true that it depends on what you are facing, but recall that it's 1 damage to all in R1. Not just 1 damage. It might not sound like much if you only have 2-3 ships in a list, but I was able to kill 3 ships in one turn with 3 Seismic Charges thrown at one time. They were all overlapped and it blasted 3/5th of his list in one go.

I also dropped 4 Seismic Charges and had a YT-2400 land right on top of all of them during his movement in the same Store Championship. I dropped his shields to 1 without firing a shot. That same turn saw 2-3 Homing Missiles finish it off. I dropped a YT-2400 down in one turn with the help of Seismic Charges.

Bombs are AMAZING against people that have never flown against bombs. And since, pre-Sabine, they were meh for so long that's a very large chunk of the player base. I know the first couple of times I faced a bomb K-wing list I got wrecked. But against any halfway competent opponent who has faced them before neither of those situations would ever happen more than once in a blue moon (plus you just spent 23 points of ordinance in the 2nd example, it **** well better have wrecked something)

2 hours ago, Makaze said:

Bombs are AMAZING against people that have never flown against bombs. And since, pre-Sabine, they were meh for so long that's a very large chunk of the player base. I know the first couple of times I faced a bomb K-wing list I got wrecked. But against any halfway competent opponent who has faced them before neither of those situations would ever happen more than once in a blue moon (plus you just spent 23 points of ordinance in the 2nd example, it **** well better have wrecked something)

I have found that even with experienced players that if it's not a K-wing, they have a hard time remembering about Bombs. I've even bombed people that are good in the same game and have them forget about it later on.

I'dd love to move on to the next round btw.

The only offenders are proton bomb and Proximity mines.

Proximity mines because:

1: Getting into position may cost you your chance to attack that round.

2: The odd's of scoring just 1 point of damage or even less are too high.

3: It costs an action, so even if you get a shot this round you're costing yourself at least a token, which itself may translate into an extra Hit or Evade result and that in of itself has a very high chance of matching what you did by pulling off the successful bomb, I.E, you'dd have spent 3 points on no net benefit. I think proximity mines should cost 2 points or get to re-roll some dice on the attack roll, perhaps just 1 die re-roll would be enough.

Proton bombs because:

1: Getting into position may cost you your chance to attack that round.

2: 1 point of damage is just too little when you get the same effect for 3 points less, especially if you wind up inflicting some inconsequential crit like: "1 stress token" or "Can't fly straight". I think Proton bomb's should let you draw 3 cards and choose one (non-direct hit) to inflict, at that point it'd be worth 5 points.

BOMBS

Cluster Mines (4)

Conner Net (4)

Ion Bombs (2)

Proximity Mines (2) *

Proton Bombs (2) *

Seismic Charges (2)

Thermal Detonators (3)