This is the start of a series of threads where I'd like us to re-evaluate the points costs of cards, one category at a time. Just copy the list and insert your own point values. Let's get to it.

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BOMBS

Cluster Mines (4)

Conner Net (4)

Ion Bombs (2)

Proximity Mines (3)

Proton Bombs (5)

Seismic Charges (2)

Thermal Detonators (3)

BOMBS

Ion Bombs 2

Seismic Charges 2

Proximity Mines 3

Cluster Mines 4 3 (or keep it 4 but allow crits)

Conner Net 4 (3 seems too cheap but 4 seems like a lot)

Proton Bombs 5 4

I think there's an argument for Cluster Mines being a point cheaper given their damage output, but other than that, I'd say bombs are probably some of the best costed ordnance in the game. The fact that they're not taken often is more a consequence of play style and the meta not really forgiving the use of most of their carriers (K-wings and Deathrain notwithstanding).

There's also the point that a lot of people simply don't know how to use them effectively, which is a real shame.

I would have liked Bombardier to give Deathrain's native pilot skill, but at a cost of 2 or 3 points. X-Wing games typically start with a joust, and it's difficult for a lot of non-turret ships to show their tail lights to enemies at the start of a game. Low PS bombing ships could have been a second option against higher PS arc dodgers (along with TLTs) if they'd had a chance to simply point themselves and drop Conner Nets and Cluster Mines forward, and it would have increased diversity a ton....although not for Y-Wings and Punishers, who have no crew slot.

Scratch that, can we get Deathrain's ability on a stick like, in the mod slot for 2 or 3 points? Or a Torpedo slot or missile slot maybe? Somethin'.

BOMBS

Ion Bombs 2

Seismic Charges 2

Proximity Mines 3

Cluster Mines 3

Conner Net 4

Proton Bombs 4

They are closer to perfect cost than any other category I can think of.

Proton Bombs, while very niche, can be utterly clutch. No other card in the game matches its potential to deal a face-up damage card to every ship who ends their turn within range 1 of it, without regard for shields. I've had games where a single well-timed Proton Bomb turned what was going to be a crushing loss into a solid win (admittedly, I've also had games where the bomb did a Thrust Control Fire on an unstressed ship).

I think overall bombs are pretty fairly priced. They're just incredibly easy to cut when push comes to shove because its hard to develop a strategy around them outside of the game.

Cluster-mines at least are not an attractive choice compared to prox mines. 1 point more expensive for less damage and no chance to crit.

Cluster-mines at least are not an attractive choice compared to prox mines. 1 point more expensive for less damage and no chance to crit.

Less damage? Without factoring in possible crits, Cluster mines deals 6 red dice that each have have a 3/8 chance of dealing a damage for 2.25 damage on average (if you land all 3). Proximity mines is 3 red dice with a 50% chance of landing on a hit symbol each, for 1.5 damage on average (again, before crits). Real benefit of Proximity Mines is that it's easier to land the enchilada. Cluster Mines have the advantage being harder to Emperor away, and have a much wider range of results (up to six damage, if you're the obnoxiously lucky type).

I started with bombs because it does seem like the printed values are pretty much right on, which should give us some guidelines when moving on to missiles and torpedoes. I think the only change I would make to bombs is:

Cluster Mines 3

Cluster mines multiply Sabine's ability, if they detonate in different rounds.

Less damage? Without factoring in possible crits, Cluster mines deals 6 red dice that each have have a 3/8 chance of dealing a damage for 2.25 damage on average (if you land all 3). Proximity mines is 3 red dice with a 50% chance of landing on a hit symbol each, for 1.5 damage on average (again, before crits). Real benefit of Proximity Mines is that it's easier to land the enchilada. Cluster Mines have the advantage being harder to Emperor away, and have a much wider range of results (up to six damage, if you're the obnoxiously lucky type).

That damage potential heavily relies on all three tokens hitting, though. In reality, that's a rare occurrence outside of Deathrain. Dropping them right on someone's head. What usually happens is they're placed among asteroids as area control, and a ship hits one at a time. Maybe two, if it's unlucky.

Sabine will be a boon to Cluster Mines, but other than that, I've never seen a good reason to take them over proxy mines.

Yeah, Cluster is 1 pt too high, but others are fine.

I'd dunk ion down to 1 for not doing any damage. Never seen them used ever, especially not over ye ole reliable seismic

BOMBS

Ion Bombs 2

Seismic Charges 2

Proximity Mines 2

Cluster Mines 3

Conner Net 3

Proton Bombs 4

Drop proton and all action based bombs/mines. Foregoing an action to drop them I feel is worth a point drop.

BOMBS

Ion Bombs 2

Seismic Charges 2

Proximity Mines 2

Cluster Mines 3

Conner Net 3

Proton Bombs 4

Those are the prices I would use in order to make all bombs pretty much top tier upgrades. Ideally, all upgrades would be priced as temptingly as Push the Limit and Veteran Instincts. So yeah, slash and burn might be the way forward.

I wouldn't mind holding the price of mines static if dropping them was a free action. A 3 point proxy mine that doesn't require PTL to pick up a focus after would be nice, and it'd combo nicely with Punishers w/ Advanced Sensors in terms of flexibility.

Cluster Mines are definitely overpriced. Proximity Mines are usable but are certainly not paragons of efficiency, and in most cases Clusters offer less damage while costing an extra point.

Mine: Average Damage (Average Damage/Cost)

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Proximity Mine: 1.5 (0.5)

1 Cluster Token: 0.75 (0.1875)

2 Cluster Tokens: 1.5 (0.375)

3 Cluster Tokens: 2.25 (0.5625)

If we assume the number of Cluster tokens hit is uniformly distributed, the overall average is the same as hitting 2 Cluster Tokens. So you can see that, generally speaking, you get the same amount of damage from bringing a Proximity Mine while playing one less point. Even if you assume all three Cluster tokens hit, you only get slightly better efficiency, which is pretty much negated just by the increased damage potential of crit dealing. Clusters do have a few things going for them, like larger board coverage and higher max damage, but those things are far from reliable.

"But wait," I hear you say. "Zero is a number as well! How does the math look if we factor in hitting zero tokens?" I am glad you asked that question.

Mine: Average Damage (Average Damage/Cost)

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0 Proximity Mines: 0 (0.0)

1 Proximity Mine: 1.5 (0.5)

0 Cluster Tokens: (0.0)

1 Cluster Token: 0.75 (0.1875)

2 Cluster Tokens: 1.5 (0.375)

3 Cluster Tokens: 2.25 (0.5625)

Hitting zero tokens obviously includes situations where you never drop the mine or the carrying ship is destroyed before doing so. Now if we assume uniform distribution of each option for each mine, we get overall averages of:

Proximity: 0.75 (0.25)

Cluster: 1.125 (0.28125)

So Clusters come off even better here, but the efficiency advantage is still solidly in the "meh" department. Interestingly you can also look at these numbers and go "wow, I am paying 3 points for a Proximity Mines that usually nets me less than one damage per game AND costs an action to deploy?" It is little wonder these mines see such infrequent use. How much extra damage does Push the Limit or Advanced Sensors net you per game?

Bombs are in a good place, with only Ion Bomb really needing attention.

Ion Bomb just isn't used. Bomb hits are hard to pull off. Seismic plays off mass bombing usually, so Ion really isn't that useful. Cut it to 1 point as the ultimate budget bomb.

Seismics and Prox mines are in a good place. Clusters need to be a point more than Prox Mines because they're better, Conner Nets are pretty **** powerful and also stay put. Proton Bombs are better than those and thus stay at 5.

Ion Bombs 1 (-1)

Seismic Charges 2

Proximity Mines 3

Cluster Mines 4

Conner Net 4

Proton Bombs 5

Bombs are in a good place, with only Ion Bomb really needing attention.

Ion Bomb just isn't used. Bomb hits are hard to pull off. Seismic plays off mass bombing usually, so Ion really isn't that useful. Cut it to 1 point as the ultimate budget bomb.

Seismics and Prox mines are in a good place. Clusters need to be a point more than Prox Mines because they're better, Conner Nets are pretty **** powerful and also stay put. Proton Bombs are better than those and thus stay at 5.

Ion Bombs 1 (-1)

Seismic Charges 2

Proximity Mines 3

Cluster Mines 4

Conner Net 4

Proton Bombs 5

It's interesting how the meta of the game differs from place to place. Of all the bombs, the bomb I see the most is in fact the ion bomb, usually strapped to a TLT K-wing or Y-wing to get something off its back.

And we're back! I started this series of Price Check threads with the intention of coming back to them once in a while to see how things have changed. It's been about a year since we talked about the value of bombs. How do we feel about their costs now?

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BOMBS

Cluster Mines (4)

Conner Net (4)

Ion Bombs (2)

Proximity Mines (3)

Proton Bombs (5)

Seismic Charges (2)

Thermal Detonators (3)

blast from the past, eh?

well, all that's really changed is the Cluster mine ruling that upped their damage probability considerably

problem now is proximity mines don't seem too great relative to clusters. Clusters cannot deal critical damage, but with two templates overlapping an enemy they roll one red die over a cluster. If all three hit, they roll twice as many red dice. Now that they both get damage from hits and crits, clusters pull ahead in average damage

and Ion bombs still need to be 1 point, because of Ello Asty Syndrome

Bomb prices seem fine relative to each other, especially now that clusters has received a bump. The real problem with their absolute pricing though is Sabine. They're somewhat underpowered without her meaning that Imperial and Scum lists just don't really run bombs all that often (and never as their primary means of dealing damage). But they can't be improved since any cost reduction or buff would make them grossly OP in Rebel bomb lists.

15 minutes ago, Makaze said:

Bomb prices seem fine relative to each other, especially now that clusters has received a bump. The real problem with their absolute pricing though is Sabine. They're somewhat underpowered without her meaning that Imperial and Scum lists just don't really run bombs all that often (and never as their primary means of dealing damage). But they can't be improved since any cost reduction or buff would make them grossly OP in Rebel bomb lists.

I think future Pilot abilities can make Imp and Scum bombers playable though. Right now they have awesome bombers, just over priced.

Deathrain's ability is about the best a bomber could hope for, he is just damn expensive. Price him around a Warden, and he could see play. Deathrain would have been lovely in a TIE Bomber priced at around 18/19 pts similar to Deathfire (who I think is on the cusp of being tier 1, 23pts for a ship that can take out Fenn Rau in one go is awesome). Emon's is fantastic for any bomber without SLAM action, but he takes up half your lists points. He would have been a cool quadjumper pilot.

Future abilties could reduce cost of action bombs, or add a condition similar to console fire where it's lingering chance of more damage unless the player wastes an action to get rid of the condition.