We need core campaign help. All the rebel players are new to the game with not having even played skirmish yet. We have lost all 4 missions and don't know what to do.

The fog of war is very thick. It's difficult to find out what it is exactly we need to do. And our Imp player is very skilled at playing skirmish. Rebel veteran always gets murdered with the imperials best cards. Do we just run to the other side of the board and ignore everything between? With so many losses is it pointless to even continue further with the campaign?

Our rebel team has two sharp shooters, veteran, and a jedi. I have tried to be more balanced with movement, rest, and shooting, but always end up dead very quickly with veteran rebel.

I would say continue playing, use it as a learning experience, and enjoy that side of the story... losing means you get to play different missions than when you're winning.

What class is the Imperial Player using?

The problem is that there is no golden ticket for the Rebels to succeed. More than anything it is about having a feel for the objective and find a good balance between taking out enemy activations before they hurt you as well as moving forward toward the objectives.

It takes time as Rebels, you need to be able to accurately calculate the percentage chance you have of killing things (as you learn the items and abilities and dice, you get better at this), then you need to assess the Imperial activations on the board, and determine what you can take out. The best defense in this game is a good offense. It's all about timing, order, and eliminating Imperial Activations before they can attack you.

Rebels also should be using Strain a lot, it's better to strain 2 and move 2 spaces and make 2 attacks instead of moving and attack. Focusing on removing Imperial activations. In newer Rebels, the problem I see the most is they like to save Strain for some reason and they just dont maximize their actions. It's all about finding what your team can do and maximizing your action economy, while taking out Imperial activations. This takes a lot of time to learn, keep playing with it. Also, spending credits, its better to save for Tier 2 and 3. The only real value weapon in Tier 1 is the DL-44, otherwise modifications are worth purchasing, but weapon weapons wait until Tier 2 to get.

Well it depends how you are losing, are they close matches and the Imperial is good about helping you remember things as you move along, maybe offering encouragement and ways to improve? Or is he pounding you into the ground and reveling in your misery?

If it is the latter you might want to pick up a core copy of your own and start hosting your own games, because any Imperial that wants to do that to new players gives scum a bad name!

The game should be fun, but ultimately it is competitive and he should definitely try to win. But shooting fish in the barrel is only fun for a certain type of person and that is not a person I enjoy playing any game with.

Have a chat with him and explain your frustrations, any Imperial worth his salt will recognize when his Rebel party is tilting and will correct accordingly or very soon find himself using Redjaks Solo Play variant.

As far as game play improvements, do not focus on killing every soldier, instead focus on killing the ones that have the best shot of interrupting your objective. You need to be constantly moving forward and focusing on completing objectives. The Empire has limitless resources, especially as threat count increases, so you will always have someone to fight. Watch a few episodes of Star Wars: Rebels, every episode is like a mission of IA. They go in against impossible odds, run and gun the whole time and just by the grace of Yoda pull out the win. Get used to winning like that as a Rebel, every match should be tight if it is evenly matched. As Imperial I win when the Rebels get bogged down trying to wipe my troops off the board, I lose when they snipe on the go and make the objectives their primary focus. It really is that simple. Especially early on, the Imp lacks any real answer to you just rushing through objectives.

I know that at first we tried to take out every imp that was on our path to the objective and that just caused us to get surrounded and not reach our goal. Then we tried to focus more on completing the objective and the imp played assassin droids and some other nasty thing. we didn't free the captives. We always end up wounded and then several dead. The imp player come after us one at a time with all his units.

Yea so it sounds like he is just focus firing you down one after another, and that really is his only play if you're going after objectives. He will try to target heroes who excel at the ability test rolls you need for that match, flipping them to wounded replaces the yellow surge heavy die with the red die. So focus on identifying and protecting those figures. You also need to take out his high damage figures, like you obviously can't leave Trandoshans chasing you doing 10 combined damage each attack. So there are times you have to make a stand bust out some strain to blow him up. You need to find the balance between running and gunning and focus firing down his strong units and that will change each mission based on what you are facing. And if all else fails and clearly your mission is at an end, go for crates. I've had missions where my Rebels were ready to just concede but I remind them that they still have a full round left to get 3 crates, thats 150 credits and every little bit helps. Especially when you are on the losing side.

But again, if there is a massive skill gap and he/she is playing all out... that just isn't cool and you should talk to your Imperial about it. If you get to 5 or 6 losses in a row he should be implementing some house rules to make it more fun for everyone. I know as an experienced Imperial I would have zero fun just dominating a group of new players, so he must be getting bored.

I know that at first we tried to take out every imp that was on our path to the objective and that just caused us to get surrounded and not reach our goal. Then we tried to focus more on completing the objective and the imp played assassin droids and some other nasty thing. we didn't free the captives. We always end up wounded and then several dead. The imp player come after us one at a time with all his units.

Suggest he take a handicap like allowing you to take an ally without the threat cost.

For one reason or another you will end up with some characters that are far more lethal than others. Try to prioritize them attacking twice every round and your less well-equipped characters focus on getting doors opened etc. Don't open doors late in the round, set up to open them early.

When in doubt, rush objectives. When sure of failure, open crates and lose with some credits.

Don't be afraid to stick a less deadly (i.e. expendable) character up front to block sight lines and soak fire and then double rest with them.

If you're 4 missions in you should probably have some 4 XP cards, make sure you use them well because the Imperial will also probably have his which will mean the Rebels are going to start taking A LOT more damage from things like Find Weakness or Combat Veteran.

Ok first of all you need Garkhaan in your hero-party. He is the best hero by far and without him I can't see the rebels succeeding against a fairly competent imperial player, especially for new players there is really no contest, so restart the campaign if the imperial player doesn't allow switching him in.

Second the imperial player shouldn't use the "subversive tactics" class deck against new players. If he does, there is very little you can do against it, because to counteract it, you have to pick a hero-party that can work around it. This means, you should theoretically know all the class decks of the imperial before even picking a hero party. If the IP didn't show them to you, he practically cheated and playing by the rules in a very strict sense would require a restart of the campaign.

Third this game is much harder for the rebels than for the IP. I recommend that the worst player is playing the IP and that both parties recieve 2 XP after each story mission, otherwise the Rebels won't have a chance.

Last but not least, the IP needs to play more like a gamemaster and less like a regular player. If he wants to play competitivly, he has to use suboptimal class decks and units to keep the game interesting, also you need to reward the Rebels more than they get for losing, otherwise I think the Rebels have the best chance to win by just getting the crates and ignore everything else, especially if it's your first campaign.

I'm sorry to say that, but the campaign isn't balanced well enough to allow for a truly competitive antagonist and play by the rules. If you want that, you would have to play Descent 2E.

Hmm interesting because my understanding of Descent is that it was even more unbalanced than IA, but more so for the Heroes. So essentially you are a DM in that game, instead of really trying to beat them (which is near impossible).

I haven't played it though and don't want to hijack this thread, but just found your comment interesting.

Hmm interesting because my understanding of Descent is that it was even more unbalanced than IA, but more so for the Heroes. So essentially you are a DM in that game, instead of really trying to beat them (which is near impossible).

I haven't played it though and don't want to hijack this thread, but just found your comment interesting.

Yeah, Descent lacks any semblance of balance. Also Gaarkhan isn't the strongest hero let alone being by far the best.

Hmm interesting because my understanding of Descent is that it was even more unbalanced than IA, but more so for the Heroes. So essentially you are a DM in that game, instead of really trying to beat them (which is near impossible).

I haven't played it though and don't want to hijack this thread, but just found your comment interesting.

Yeah, Descent lacks any semblance of balance. Also Gaarkhan isn't the strongest hero let alone being by far the best.

To each his own I guess. I'm just basing my statements on personal expirience in both games and the statistics from BGG, which show well enough that with 4 heroes Descent 2E is balanced fairly well on most quests and IA story missions are nearly unwinnable for the heroes (especially if the heroes win Aftermath).

Gaarkhan imo is one of the best heroes from the base game, especially for people new to the game. While he isn't the best in tests, he can do some serious damage, tank a lot of attacks and with his charge move and then attack twice per turn from the beginning. He's also practically immune to conditions and deals even more damage when wounded, provided he got the right skills. So while most heroes get at least a little bit weaker when wounded, he even gets stronger in his main strength, which is dealing damage.

Who do you think is the strongest hero in the base set? Imo given the circumstances that the heroes are all beginners imo Garkhaan is on top of the list. I know I find him hardest to deal with in the current campaign I'm playing against beginners.

@ Frog Trigger: I've played 3 campaigns of Descent up until now and the OL won all of them closely, but he did. Also it wasn't the same OL everytime, so I really don't see where you get your insight from.

I guess if yours saying Garkhaan is straightforward and doesn't need any advanced knowledge of the game to be effective, I can agree wholeheartedly agree with that statement.

Personally I like Fenn for that. Move and shoot, shoot some guys, then move some more.

I guess if yours saying Garkhaan is straightforward and doesn't need any advanced knowledge of the game to be effective, I can agree wholeheartedly agree with that statement.

Personally I like Fenn for that. Move and shoot, shoot some guys, then move some more.

Yes Fenn is also very strong even for beginners. However I found that he is a little bit more fiddly and beginners tend to forget his abilities, have a hard time keeping them in mind while activating or at least don't get the timing right.

No hero is the "best" considered separately. They all have their strengths. The rebel heroes need each other to shine.

(The best value for 1 XP is Diala's Force Adept, then Fenn's Tactical Movement.)

No hero is the "best" considered separately. They all have their strengths. The rebel heroes need each other to shine.

This!

Gaarkhan is by no means the strongest or a must-have character. In fact I tend to be adverse to including him when playing as one of the Rebels and I'm happy to see him when playing as the Empire. Why? Because Gaarkhan's strenghts also makes him incredibly predictable. All the heroes are strong, and as Pasi mentioned their strength's depend on how they fit with the other heroes in the group, but looking beyond their strengths, there is also a meta-element to each character: how the abilities of a character dictates the optimal way to play them.

The problem with Gaarkhan is that he is more or less a one-trick pony wookie. He doesn't do much in terms of improving the action economy of his fellows. His only option is more or less to close in on the enemy and beat them senseless and as he gets Rampage og Brutal Cleave his movement will become more and more predictable. Moreso, he will often have to strain himself extensively to be able to get to where he needs to go and get the amount of attacks in he can - and being full on strain is a significant element in the Empire being able to wound you, as you will have a threshold to how much you can heal yourself even if you get around to try (and if you do, it will still be a win-win for the Empire as he just forced Gaarkhan to waste both actions to heal to survive because of having to eat through his strain first). It's the easiest thing in the world to set up a 'wookie-lure' to bring Gaarkhan in to position to where he can do his thing, only to be the target of a vicious and premeditated counter-attack, and it is how I've wounded Ghaarkan and ultimately won a number of missions.

1 Ok first of all you need Garkhaan in your hero-party. He is the best hero by far and without him I can't see the rebels succeeding against a fairly competent imperial player, especially for new players there is really no contest, so restart the campaign if the imperial player doesn't allow switching him in.

2 Second the imperial player shouldn't use the "subversive tactics" class deck against new players. If he does, there is very little you can do against it, because to counteract it, you have to pick a hero-party that can work around it. This means, you should theoretically know all the class decks of the imperial before even picking a hero party. If the IP didn't show them to you, he practically cheated and playing by the rules in a very strict sense would require a restart of the campaign.

3 Third this game is much harder for the rebels than for the IP. I recommend that the worst player is playing the IP and that both parties recieve 2 XP after each story mission, otherwise the Rebels won't have a chance.

4 Last but not least, the IP needs to play more like a gamemaster and less like a regular player. If he wants to play competitivly, he has to use suboptimal class decks and units to keep the game interesting, also you need to reward the Rebels more than they get for losing, otherwise I think the Rebels have the best chance to win by just getting the crates and ignore everything else, especially if it's your first campaign.

2. is the only point in your post I agree wholeheartedly. Subversive tactics against a new group is

a. a total **** move. explaining the rules and abilities to players while at the same time denying them said abilities is

b. a really bad idea, because it keeps the players from learning their own heroes capabilities and in the end, the game. Also, if you like the game you want to play multiple campaigns and so it's also

c. stupid, because it's by far the least fun deck to play against and will drive new players away from the game.

4. No. Simply no to all of that.

1. Gharkaan is a beast and always a priority for the imperial player, but he is surely not the best character by far. In my personal opinion, the favorites are Fenn and Diala simply for the incidental movement tricks. But I'm currently playing a campaign without both of those and they are doing very well.

3. No, the MISSIONS are harder for the rebel players - The GAME is much more difficult as imperial.

You forget how friggin much the imperial player has to think about. Not only do you have _SEVERAL_ _GROUPS_ of _DIFFERENT_ models (instead of only one hero), you also have to combine such choices with the agenda deck, the mission scenario and your own class deck; decide if you bank threat or evenly spend it, guesstimate what route the players take and change your entire strategy on the fly because of a single dodge roll. Also, no matter how good you play, how great your positioning, baiting and overall unit choices are...the rebel players will mostly blame the scenario for being one sided

If you think that the rebels need 2 xp per story-mission and play against the worst player in your group...I'm sorry to say this, IA might not be for you. Because if the player "skill" level is that uneven, and the newer players don't manage to learn a bit after each mission, either the Imp. player is rubbish at explaining the rules teaching the game (I found myself lacking after the first few missions) or it's simply the wrong game for the group. (even tough this sounds like it, it is not supposed to be an attack on you or the group, every group enjoys different games. And IA is certainly not a game thats made for everyone.)

1 Ok first of all you need Garkhaan in your hero-party. He is the best hero by far and without him I can't see the rebels succeeding against a fairly competent imperial player, especially for new players there is really no contest, so restart the campaign if the imperial player doesn't allow switching him in.

2 Second the imperial player shouldn't use the "subversive tactics" class deck against new players. If he does, there is very little you can do against it, because to counteract it, you have to pick a hero-party that can work around it. This means, you should theoretically know all the class decks of the imperial before even picking a hero party. If the IP didn't show them to you, he practically cheated and playing by the rules in a very strict sense would require a restart of the campaign.

3 Third this game is much harder for the rebels than for the IP. I recommend that the worst player is playing the IP and that both parties recieve 2 XP after each story mission, otherwise the Rebels won't have a chance.

4 Last but not least, the IP needs to play more like a gamemaster and less like a regular player. If he wants to play competitivly, he has to use suboptimal class decks and units to keep the game interesting, also you need to reward the Rebels more than they get for losing, otherwise I think the Rebels have the best chance to win by just getting the crates and ignore everything else, especially if it's your first campaign.

2. is the only point in your post I agree wholeheartedly. Subversive tactics against a new group is

a. a total **** move. explaining the rules and abilities to players while at the same time denying them said abilities is

b. a really bad idea, because it keeps the players from learning their own heroes capabilities and in the end, the game. Also, if you like the game you want to play multiple campaigns and so it's also

c. stupid, because it's by far the least fun deck to play against and will drive new players away from the game.

4. No. Simply no to all of that.

1. Gharkaan is a beast and always a priority for the imperial player, but he is surely not the best character by far. In my personal opinion, the favorites are Fenn and Diala simply for the incidental movement tricks. But I'm currently playing a campaign without both of those and they are doing very well.

3. No, the MISSIONS are harder for the rebel players - The GAME is much more difficult as imperial.

You forget how friggin much the imperial player has to think about. Not only do you have _SEVERAL_ _GROUPS_ of _DIFFERENT_ models (instead of only one hero), you also have to combine such choices with the agenda deck, the mission scenario and your own class deck; decide if you bank threat or evenly spend it, guesstimate what route the players take and change your entire strategy on the fly because of a single dodge roll. Also, no matter how good you play, how great your positioning, baiting and overall unit choices are...the rebel players will mostly blame the scenario for being one sided

If you think that the rebels need 2 xp per story-mission and play against the worst player in your group...I'm sorry to say this, IA might not be for you. Because if the player "skill" level is that uneven, and the newer players don't manage to learn a bit after each mission, either the Imp. player is rubbish at explaining the rules teaching the game (I found myself lacking after the first few missions) or it's simply the wrong game for the group. (even tough this sounds like it, it is not supposed to be an attack on you or the group, every group enjoys different games. And IA is certainly not a game thats made for everyone.)

I directed this answer to the OP, who stated he is a beginner and the rebels lost the first 4 missions (the first third of the campaign) and they play against a IA skirmish player. He also said they are using Fenn and Diala, but it seems like they achieved nothing, probably because of suboptimal skill choices and too much going on to use their skills in a very effective way.

So with new players you have 3 choices.

a) Explain them a ton of stuff, tell them what they should do in a lot of turns and effectivly make the game a very theoretical expirience for them by taking the decisions for them (the OP even said he doesn't really know what to do in most situations). This way the amount fun for everyone involved will be mostly very low, the learning process hard and slow.

b) Let them do their own thing and hope they will grasp on their own, crush them every game and snowball so hard that even if they learned the game by mission 8, they won't have a chance in winning and ultimatly not know what tactic is successfull and which isn't (because they had no success). Fun will be very low, the probability of quitting very high.

c) Advise them to pick a few easy heroes, so they aren't overwhelmed by the tactical possibilities, let them acquire a feeling for combat, combat dice and combat dynamics on their own, while they have at least one hero that can deal with nearly every enemy. Let them get a feeling about the importance of movement in the game by success of their own strategies and decisions. To do that you need to keep the fighting ground very even, so they have a chance to win when applying a good strategy or expirience a very close finish. Give them a few hints here and there and not overwhelm them with an abstract theory. The learning process will be fun, fast, the IP can have a little challange and the games will be exciting at least.

You can choose on your own, but I will advise anyone to go with option c), because I tried out all 3 of them and had the best time with option c).

Gaarkhan is the right hero for that. He is easy to handle, there are no skills you can forget, because they are all quite strait forward and no matter the game-flow, with Gaarkhan you will be succesfull a few times in the game, which raises the fun level a lot if you are clearly on the weaker side.

Also Gaarkhan can be really powerfull with the right skills and item-choices. With around 20hp and 5 Movementspeed in the mid campaign, and dealing +2 damage on every attack when wounded and some kind of immunity to conditions, it's a really bad idea to focus him down early, because killing him takes a lot of resources and if you don't go kill him a second time he is even more powerfull in dishing out damage than before. Having someone taking care of combat and damage, the rest of the heroes are more likely to invest in non damage skills and learning the game better.

On the first playthrough this game is very easy for the IP and it's in general much easier than Descent 2E. You got only 4-5 viable unit-choices and most of your success hinges on the fact when and how many free units you are gifted by the scenario. During the game it's best to keep up with having at least 4 groups throughout the game, save up your threat as much as possible and spend it all when your free stuff arrives. Heroes are unstopable in this game, there are virtually no reliable condition dealers (maybe apart from the nexu, but that's one in total) and there are 3 conditions, enemies have 1 special ability which isn't very complex at the end and you have to kill them in every mission. So of course it's only about upping your damage output/threat spent.

My group enjoys IA a lot and Descent 2E is one of my favorite games (so naturally I like IA) and they did learn a lot in this one campaign. We just like to learn while having fun and finding out stuff on our own and care much more about exciting games and a beatable challange than winning every time. Like I said to each his own.

I just wished IA had a little more creative imperial units and a little more depth (Only upping your damage output gets a little old after a while). I got the Hoth expansion, but besides another kind of stormtroopers there is only one viable group for other campaigns. I guess the variety of Descent just spoiled me.

As the Imperial Player, sure I want to win, but I want my group to have fun. In the end Ill probably let them win, but even doing so in the Core Campaign, Imps lead 1-0-1 and side missions theyre up 1-0. Now the next side mission is Dark Obsession (they passed up going for Luke) so Im going to do all I can to win Vader.

In the end, its a game, you want people to have fun. Im going to run my campaign like a DM would to let people have a chance.

~D