Thought that i would ask this question. What fo people consider to be some of the weaker choices for Imperials?

In my local meta there arent too many imperial players to discuss this with. I havent seen much punisher action around as well as bombers which surprised me.

So what do people think are the weakest imperial ships?

Generic Punishers are a bit too expensive, and both they and bombers generally currently suffer for the lack of ordnance being worth it (though Guidance Chimps and Long Range Scanners will be helping with that). Defenders are way overcosted at present but getting a fix soon. Firesprays don't see a lot of use at all.

But generally I think Imperials are among the more balanced factions in terms of most of the ship types being broadly competitively priced and effective.

There are, however, a LOT of pilots who just suck and/or are way too expensive.

For the moment I rarely see bombers, Defenders and the glorious White Space Rhinoceros..

The first two I suspect will be remedied soon enough with the coming fixes/upgrades.

The latter is only meant to be for the precious few who can see the value of that most splendid white space perfection it is.

(left out the Firespray whom is hardly ever seen as I counted it as a scum ship btw)

A rare picture of the gracious White Void Whale in its natural environment:

Biased? Me? Why would you think that? Because I feel the Albino Space Elegance is a superb ship? Worthy of an Emperor?

Nah, the Coruscating Astral Narwhal gets plenty of play, Palp/Aces is a pretty common list atm.

I'm pretty sure you see a lot of the majestic space narwhals every time someone wants to run Palp aces.

The Firespray, Bomber, and Fat Bomber are all pretty rare, from what I've seen and heard.

Weakest Imperial? I'd say Firespray. I rarely ever see them.

I see Tie Punishers around as the named guys are good. Of course, this isn't uber competitive play. They would probably be my next pick.

I play Tie Bombers all the time and I think they are very competitive....even before the fix.

Tie Defender is not as bad as people think, but it's about to get incredibly good.

Bombers, Defenders, Firesprays, Punishers.

All that is about to change soon however.

I'd say hands down it's the Imperial Firespray.

Boba Fett with Navigator is a strong choice though and I wouldn't discount it as a ship in a list, although expensive.

With Wave 8 coming I see two possibilities to bring back the old 'Spray:

Kath w/Concussion Missiles (Or Cluster, Or Homing) and Guidance Chip. I allows you to get that crit in and either do heavy damage to a low evade ship or stress out a high evade ship.

Krassis w/Cluster missiles.

As a bit of a statistics nerd, I have spent some time going through Listjuggler's tournament data. For the Empire, that's not happy reading.

TIE Fighters are fine. They come in swarms and in mini swarms, and many different pilots are used for them.

Foo fighters are not as common as their predecessors, but still show up from time to time.

Interceptors are limited to Soontir Fel and Carnor Jax. I can't even remember seeing any other pilot.

Bombers don't exist. Neither do Punishers or Defenders. It's going to be interesting to see what Imperial Veterans can do to remedy this.

TIE Advanced is 99% Vader. Other pilots are taken, but very rarely. The "fix" was not enough to make the generics competitive, apparently.

I have never seen a Firespray. Do people not take them because they view them as scum ships or because they just don't cut it? Perhaps both.

Phantom usage has gone down, but Whisper still sees some action. The others not so much, probably due to the high ace meta.

The Lambda is hotter than ever, but obviously not for the ship itself. It's a delivery system for his imperial majesty.

The Decimator is not extinct, but maybe endagered. The TLTs have hunted it ferociously.

The "fix" was not enough to make the generics competitive, apparently.

I don't think that's it. I think it's just that for between 1 and 4 more points Vader at PS9 is just too amazing to not take. A stress free PtL is worth at least 3 points putting him on par points wise with most of the other named Advanced for the same price.

In my local meta, the ships not beings used much/at all are as follows (and what I fly doesn't count):

Bombers

Phantoms

Lambda-class shuttle

Punisher

There are a few newer players who really like the TIE Defender. And the ones that don't like the Decimator tend to like the Firespray. Krassis is seeing a lot of play.

I don't see Academy Ties that often anymore. If you see a standard Tie Fighter its Wampa or a BSP w/ Crack.

The "fix" was not enough to make the generics competitive, apparently.

I don't think that's it. I think it's just that for between 1 and 4 more points Vader at PS9 is just too amazing to not take. A stress free PtL is worth at least 3 points putting him on par points wise with most of the other named Advanced for the same price.

I wonder if it's due to the deliver system of those cards as well. A lot of people can buy a single ATC and x1 title on Ebay to augment their Vader. Fewer might be willing to pay for the whole raider to equip multiple TIE/x1s

The "fix" was not enough to make the generics competitive, apparently.

I don't think that's it. I think it's just that for between 1 and 4 more points Vader at PS9 is just too amazing to not take. A stress free PtL is worth at least 3 points putting him on par points wise with most of the other named Advanced for the same price.

I wonder if it's due to the deliver system of those cards as well. A lot of people can buy a single ATC and x1 title on Ebay to augment their Vader. Fewer might be willing to pay for the whole raider to equip multiple TIE/x1s

I think there's something to this. Quad generic Advanced with Accuracy Corrector (and a blocker of some sort to fill out the points) is a very solid list, but it's also astonishingly expensive given the need to buy not only the blocker, the raider, and at least 3 advanceds, but also 4 StarVipers or IGGies for Accuracy Correctors. It's good, but monetarily it's painful.

Also not so hot against TLTs.

The "fix" was not enough to make the generics competitive, apparently.

I don't think that's it. I think it's just that for between 1 and 4 more points Vader at PS9 is just too amazing to not take. A stress free PtL is worth at least 3 points putting him on par points wise with most of the other named Advanced for the same price.

If that's true, then why don't people run Vader AND the generics? An ATC+EU Vader plus three AC Tempests weighs in at 98-100 points, depending on what ETP you put on Vader. If the generics had been competitive, that would have been a great list.

In my local meta, Bombers seem to be the ship seen least. Firesprays seem to be making a comeback, Defenders have always been popular, the Palpmobile has brought the Alabaster Void Bison back into favor, and we actually see a fair number of Decimators for the same reason. Punishers tend to be Redline or Deathrain exclusively, and Tie Advanced have been super popular since the Raider dropped. Our latest store championships saw 4 Advanced take 1st place - 3 Tempests with title and Accuracy Corrector, and Vader with title, ATC, Predator, and Engine Upgrade.

Phantoms seem to be relegated to Whisper almost exclusively (though I almost always fly Echo for the unpredictability of his movement), and Interceptors seem to be Jax and Fel. I'd love to bring back the RGP, but Jax and Fel seem to do better in this Ace environment.

Tie FO's are gaining ground, with Omega Leader at the fore of usage (because he's an awesome 'screw you' piece to your opponent), but they seem to all be quite common. The new TIES from the carrier seem to be Wampa and Youngster, though I find when I play Youngster, he gets focused down pretty quick because I usually have him paired with expose.

So, that all being said, we generally don't have a lot of useless ships. Many of our players (I think) are purposely running ships against the larger meta to find a combo that can take on the glut of TLT lists and Aces.

The "fix" was not enough to make the generics competitive, apparently.

I don't think that's it. I think it's just that for between 1 and 4 more points Vader at PS9 is just too amazing to not take. A stress free PtL is worth at least 3 points putting him on par points wise with most of the other named Advanced for the same price.

If that's true, then why don't people run Vader AND the generics? An ATC+EU Vader plus three AC Tempests weighs in at 98-100 points, depending on what ETP you put on Vader. If the generics had been competitive, that would have been a great list.

the generics are competitive, but palp aces simply has more reliable dice

how can dice be more reliable than acc corrector?

simply put, acc corrector won't stop enemy green dice

advance generics will murder everything but soontir and poe, who are effectively immortal

I play a Punisher and two generic Defenders list all the time. Without unreleased upgrades too.

As far as TIE Advanced goes, Vader is the go-to guy here. His ability is just so good that it is easy to justify the extra couple points to get him.

Once Imperial Veterans drops, I am going to dust off my Bombers because I can finally justify dragging Jonus around. Currently, his pilot ability just does not make sense. If his ability effected his own blasted ship, you would see him (and Bombers) more. Currently, he is just an expensive upgrade that is hard to justify, but yu have to take him to get ordnance to work.

Imperial Firesprays are just so meh. Sure a Bounty Hunter with Gunner is good, but it just does not fit in with how I am building lists now. I'd rather have a small-base ace for the same cost. That and the pilot ability of the named pilots are just so mediocre. It should have never been an Imperial ship to begin with.

As a bit of a statistics nerd, I have spent some time going through Listjuggler's tournament data. For the Empire, that's not happy reading.

I still argue that looking at past tournament data isn't the best way to gauge if something is decent or not. Just because many players have favorites or go for the meta like lemmings doesn't mean other options aren't good. I don't have much confidence in the innovative nature of most tournament players.

The last tournament (last week) in my area of Europe has seen ALL Imperial ships except Punishers - everything else was present at least once.

58 players, maybe 20 were Imperials. TIE Fighter swarm won.

Does anybody have hope that the "Sys .... Op.." Imperial Only card is the fix for Tie Punishers? I feel like it's going to be a crew card, rather than a Sys Upgrade card (which would probably be the best slot to help out the generic Punisher), but even if it's a crew card, maybe it'll just mean that you want to run a support ship (like the Tie Shuttle) alongside your Punishers?

I'm halfway suspecting that this mystery Imperial Only card (probably crew) is going to do something like grant a friendly ship a target lock on a green maneuver or something like that (like K4 Droid, but for allies) which would work with Fleet Officer in terms of synergy (gotta clear Stress with the green) and make support Tie Shuttles a real deal.

...I dunno.

No, there's very little chance that they would put in a card which none of the ships in the set could use, and there's no crew card in the set for the Bomber Shuttle title to use.

I see almost no chance whatsoever that it will be anything other than a crew card.

The named Punishers are fine (once Chimps come out, anyway), the generics are not really useful, but I don't see a huge problem with that.