Hi Folk,

yesterday we played "Intruders in Chetwood" and one deck uses Tactic-Aragorn. We had two situations where we got stuck and discussed about Aragorn' Ability to engage an enemy after he destroyed one.

1) An enemy with Ambush attached is optionally engaged by Aragorn before the combat phase. The enemy get a shadow card in the combat phase and after that Ambush is discarded and Aragorn managed to kill the enemy. After that he engages a new enemy from the staging area.

Question: Does this enemy attack Aragorn's player?

2) Same situation, but Aragorn has Rivendell Bow attached and while staging "Sudden Assault" is revealed, which results in an immediate attack of three enemy against the first player. Can Aragorn sniper one enemy with "Hand upon the bow" and engage one of the enemies so only one enemy is left in the staging area .. which results in only one immediate attack?

1) Since you are using the Ambush trap to make the attack (presumably before the enemy has had a chance to attack you) then the newly engaged enemy will make an attack, since the enemy attack part of the combat phase is not over. If however you had attacked as part of the normal framework, then the new enemy would not be able to attack you.

2) I would say that all the enemies have already been activated by the card text to make an attack; That one or more moves to a new place does not prevent said attack from taking place. The enemy destroyed by Hands Upon the Bow is no longer in play though and thus is not capable of finishing/performing the attack.

Agree with Nerdmeister, I'd say those enemies in the staging area have had their attacks queued up, and engaging one at this point will not stop its attack).

Mmm.. i'm not with you ..

In the combat phase all enemies engaged with me are queued up for attacking me. If i or another player managed to get one or more of these enemies out of my combatzone before i declare there attack against me, they will not attack me, right?

So, same situation in 2) only the location (staging area) of the enemies changed. Or miss i something?

They are not queued up to attack you at the start of the combat phase, at least not in the same way that a card effect would queue them. However, we do have a ruling in which a card effect queues up multiple attacks, including the target of that attack:

"Q: I played a Knife in the Dark yesterday where a Ringwraith had two shadow cards when it attacked. Both of the shadow cards were both Pathless Country, which says "After this attack, the attacking enemy engages the next player then makes an immediate attack." How would this situation resolve?

A: In the situation you just described, the enemy will engage the next player after resolving its attack against you. Then it will make 2 attacks in a row against that player."

My interpretation is that the attack is queued up at the time a shadow effect (or treachery) resolves. Moving the card away wouldn't cause you to recalculate who the "next player" is. That suggests that some information about the attack has already been set up at the time of shadow effect resolution. With Sudden Assault, the information about which enemies will be attacking must have been decided when you resolved the card... and so engaging one via Aragorn's effect wouldn't prevent the attack.

Mmm.. i'm not with you ..

In the combat phase all enemies engaged with me are queued up for attacking me. If i or another player managed to get one or more of these enemies out of my combatzone before i declare there attack against me, they will not attack me, right?

So, same situation in 2) only the location (staging area) of the enemies changed. Or miss i something?

I think your interpretation is just as valid as Nerdmeister's, but I think what holds more weight than either interpretation is the developer's intent. We really should ask them about this one.

The two main differences between the Core Set rule book and the card Sudden Assault are:

1) Core Set rule book says "all enemies" while Sudden Assault says "each enemy"; and

2) Sudden Assault says "immediate attack" which has not yet been clearly defined (especially when multiple enemies are making simultaneous immediate attacks as in the case with Sudden Assault).

They are not queued up to attack you at the start of the combat phase, at least not in the same way that a card effect would queue them. However, we do have a ruling in which a card effect queues up multiple attacks, including the target of that attack:

"Q: I played a Knife in the Dark yesterday where a Ringwraith had two shadow cards when it attacked. Both of the shadow cards were both Pathless Country, which says "After this attack, the attacking enemy engages the next player then makes an immediate attack." How would this situation resolve?

A: In the situation you just described, the enemy will engage the next player after resolving its attack against you. Then it will make 2 attacks in a row against that player."

My interpretation is that the attack is queued up at the time a shadow effect (or treachery) resolves. Moving the card away wouldn't cause you to recalculate who the "next player" is. That suggests that some information about the attack has already been set up at the time of shadow effect resolution. With Sudden Assault, the information about which enemies will be attacking must have been decided when you resolved the card... and so engaging one via Aragorn's effect wouldn't prevent the attack.

I think this makes sense. Otherwise the treachery card would remain in limbo until each attack is fully resolved (which is really awkward) since it can only be placed in the discard pile once it is resolved.

So you also wouldn't be able to use Follow Me! to redirect some of the attacks?

So you also wouldn't be able to use Follow Me! to redirect some of the attacks?

Nice catch

I think you wohld be able .. because the game state changes and the effect must be recalculated.

This isn't a lasting effect, so no recalculation is needed... that part of the FAQ isn't relevant here. This is a one time event that queues up a series of attacks, which then resolve one by one. There's no lasting effect (that would require some kind of language like "until the end of the round").

So you also wouldn't be able to use Follow Me! to redirect some of the attacks?

I wouldn't think so -- in the "next player" ruling that I quoted, it seems the "next player" is determined at the time the shadow effect resolves, so doing some turn order shenanigans with Follow Me! ought not to affect who the enemy engages and attacks for that shadow effect. And similarly I wouldn't think Follow Me! would change how the attacks from Sudden Assault are resolved, since they would be queued at the time that the treachery resolves.

They will attack because you havent reached the "enimies engaged with players resolve attack step" yet. They will NOT under normal circumstances however receive a shadow card (unless it's Carn Dum or some special circumstance). Shadow cards are delt to all engaged enemies at thw beginning of the combat phase. He was not engaged at the beginning of the combat phase. Understand that enemies do get shadow cards if they make additional or immediate attacks in or outside the combat phase but this is not an additional or immediate attack. This would be considered its first normal attack during the framework of the game and it simply missed its opportunity to get a shadow card by not being engaged at the beginning of the combat phase. This is similar to how the Balrog in Shadow and Flame might attack a player if that player raised its threat above 0 in the combat action window after shadow cards were dealt. It's considered the first normal attack in the game framework and will not get a shadow card and is one of the few times an enemy won't get a shadow card.