One of the most enjoyable parts of X Wing for me and I'm sure many of you as well is customization through upgrades. Upgrades are obviously a fundamental part of the game, helping ships be more or less powerful, making ships more unique, and giving infinite squad possibilities.

But a newer player I'm helping get into the game (he's been playing for a while but still struggles) has a hard time with upgrades and generally doesn't like them, he gets overwhelmed by all the possibilities and the complex mechanics of some of them.

He could of course stick with upgrade light lists with lots of generics, but even then I believe the game will be a lot more enjoyable (and he will have a much better understanding of it and be a better player because of it) if he makes the effort to use upgrades.

This situation made me wonder if there were others out there like this player, even higher skilled players who just don't like using upgrades.

So do you bother with upgrades or prefer just base ship stat lines and pilot abilities?

My son and I have been playing for over two years and we both prefer playing with fewer upgrades. Upgrades like increases in hull or shields or VI arent bad because you dont have to remember to use them. But abilities, esp. those with interactions with other ships and pilots get overwhelming fast! We play either 150pt games or Epic with hundreds of point per side and basic ships make the gameplay move more smoothly. We take named pilots often, but dont rely on extra abilities. I feel fewer abilities is more fun!

While I'm not a rebel man right now, I used to be almost all of last year, and I liked to fly Paul Heavers BBBX(Biggs) list, and it's very upgrade light. The generic BBBBZ swarm is very effective, and not as tedious as a Tie swarm and has zero upgrades. Almost certainly though, the unique imperial pilots are better suited to be flown without upgrades than the rebel unique pilots.

Have you tried to introduce upgrades through out a game? Take examples from the game and tell him what he could have had the opportunity to do in that situation, and when he asks what they are, give him the cards to use for the remainder of the game. Kind of like breaking him in almost.

Getting into the game at this point can be very overwhelming. You have to digest 7 waves of ships, pilots and their abilities along with all the upgrades. I understand why playing a naked squad is more enjoyable than worrying about trying to remember all the upgrades and interactions AND play the game.

You might try one or two ship dog fights with upgrades. Break the new guy in slowly and give him a chance to digest all the newness. Let him explore the benefits and interactions of using various cards.

While I'm not a rebel man right now, I used to be almost all of last year, and I liked to fly Paul Heavers BBBX(Biggs) list, and it's very upgrade light. The generic BBBBZ swarm is very effective, and not as tedious as a Tie swarm and has zero upgrades. Almost certainly though, the unique imperial pilots are better suited to be flown without upgrades than the rebel unique pilots.

Have you tried to introduce upgrades through out a game? Take examples from the game and tell him what he could have had the opportunity to do in that situation, and when he asks what they are, give him the cards to use for the remainder of the game. Kind of like breaking him in almost.

That's a good idea, I'll give it a try!

As a experienced gamer in general, and X-wing player, I do both for different reasons.

I like complex interactions that lead to generation of intricate game states and unusual outcomes. Those intrigue me and I'll spend hours mix matching my way through components to find those. So large number of upgrades to a ship is intriguing. Like anymore, many ships you fly will have at least three upgrades and that's cool. 1+1(a)/π×∆~x is intriguing.

But, I also appreciate more fluid and dynamic upgrade playing. One upgrade to a ship for point efficiency, and room for redundant back up is also very enjoyable Like one 1+1+3=6.

And to be complete, I also like flying plain and clean. But only if there's alot of pieces on the board that can still keep me engaged. 1×10=10=cool

I find that I have a harder time with upgrades that might need to be executed at a certain time. For example, the decloaking of the Phantom. It really stinks when you think of decloaking, choose your dial, then other ships start to move and you realize you forgot to declare the decloak. I've been know to also forget to take the free target locks from Fire Control System.

Maybe try upgrades that aren't timing dependent, or just fewer.

I myself just bought 3 B-wings and a Z-95 yesterday so that I can try the BBBBz list. It looks like a fun one to try that is more about flying and boxing in an opponent with overlapping fields of fire as opposed to reliance on upgrades.

Just because you find doing something a certain way enjoyable doesn't mean everyone else will too. See epic as a great example, some people hate it and some only play that format, and both choices are valid. Once you've made your case to them for using upgrades and they don't want to, you should just drop it and let them play the game the way they want to. Maybe crush them with an upgrade heavy list to show rather than tell your point.

It depends on the role of the ship. I tend to keep generics naked and load up aces with swag. Generics are there to die for the glory of the Emperor while aces have earned the gear.

Some ships just plainly need them ie a Y Wing without any upgrades is just not adding to the list, but some lists dont need any as the BBBBZ list has shown. If he isn't having fun with the upgrades point him in the minor to no upgrade path. You have to enjoy your list to get the most out of it.

They are pretty essential throughout the game then again I think the broader question is what counts for upgrades? Are unique pilots considered upgrades or does it go further to a naked Tala squadron being a +2 pilot skill for +1 point upgrade from a naked bandit squadron, or are you talking about just using any pilot unique or non-unique without upgrades?

The more depth and complexity the better!

I just freaking LOVE the shenanigans like Katarning a focus token to Jake, triggering his ability to boost, then using PTL after it to perform a focus action himself, allowing his ability to trigger Barrelroll

all this time you laugh maniacally while your opponent's brains leak out

depends if the build allows for them.... 5K mini swarm i am trading upgrades for an extra ship... I have also played more than a few games where i FORGOT that i had a certain upgrade that i could use.

They are pretty essential throughout the game then again I think the broader question is what counts for upgrades? Are unique pilots considered upgrades or does it go further to a naked Tala squadron being a +2 pilot skill for +1 point upgrade from a naked bandit squadron, or are you talking about just using any pilot unique or non-unique without upgrades?

I'm referring to upgrade cards mainly (in the form of the smaller cards), but different pilot abilities work for this topic as well I suppose.

I tend to avoid upgrades that a) require you to discard them to use (if I'm spending points on them, I want the benefit for the entire game) or b) depend on the other player having or doing something for their effect to trigger (if they don't have or do that something, I've wasted those points).

His opponents will have upgrades. So he needs to know what they do anyways.

I loved the insane interactions in previous season's two-ship lists.

Stuff like landing RAC on a rock, boosting off of it in the combat phase via Ysanne, PTL and Engine; ending up out of their arc, in range 1. etc.

I never considered naked pilots much. I like generics, but usually they carry something.

As a experienced gamer in general, and X-wing player, I do both for different reasons.

I like complex interactions that lead to generation of intricate game states and unusual outcomes. Those intrigue me and I'll spend hours mix matching my way through components to find those. So large number of upgrades to a ship is intriguing. Like anymore, many ships you fly will have at least three upgrades and that's cool. 1+1(a)/π×∆~x is intriguing.[...]

There is definitely more than one dimension to this game. Some people love the deck building aspect as much or even more than playing the game and, as above, spend hours building squads. Others would, even those that like the variety, just want to grab a squad and play.

One of the most enjoyable parts of X Wing for me and I'm sure many of you as well is customization through upgrades. Upgrades are obviously a fundamental part of the game, helping ships be more or less powerful, making ships more unique, and giving infinite squad possibilities.

But a newer player I'm helping get into the game (he's been playing for a while but still struggles) has a hard time with upgrades and generally doesn't like them, he gets overwhelmed by all the possibilities and the complex mechanics of some of them.

I have been playing, though not as much as others, and I too feel quite overwhelmed sometimes. People talk about how simple this game is to play. But with all of the cards, combinations and, as you say, even the interactions between cards can be daunting. Try Googling 'Yorr Oicunn Double tap' if you want to blow the mind of a new user. A newbie wouldn't stand a chance. Someone uploaded an Upgrade Card Expansion List and wow, I didn't realize how many there were.

So I like fewer upgrades and go-to lists of squads. Let someone else do the work. MJ has a nice list and ranks them on difficulty to play and on sites that lists tournaments I find good squads to play. Oddly enough I've recently started playing Wings of Glory because, even though it is more fiddly, it seems easier to play and lots of fun. Plus I can add pilot abilities and optional rules to add depth rather than that being the standard play. The thing is though, this is still Star Wars and even though the upgrades can make it very complex and overwhelming for a game it is cool to see X-Wings and TIE Fighters. Well its also cool to see the Red Baron and a Sopwith Camel. But there isn't any WWI block buster movies out right now is there?

Star Wars: X-Wing can be played without upgrades and it is often suggested for Epic. But in 100 point death matches it seems the majority of squads are built around synergies. My balance, as I said above, is a go-to list of squads. Pick your level of ships and upgrades and have fun.

[some people like deck building, some just want to play and some like a little of both]

In casual. Do what you want.

But dont even try to go competitive with that attitude. You'll get stomped.

Examples:

Soontir Fel. Naked. Well just interceptor with high PS that gets free focus from debris. With upgrades one of the most mobile and hardest to kill ships in the game.

Poe Dameron. New xwing with dice modification. With upgrades guy that dodges on eye and blank and regenerates shield like crazy.

Whisper. I have no idea how to play her naked. (ekhem ok would have some ideas about HER but i mean the ship) With upgrades, mobile killer with autocloak.

Falcon same thing.

Dash same thing.

Deci same thing.

I could go on and on....

When I play with my kids I give them as little upgrades as possible, maybe gunner on the Falcon and R2-D2 on something else - that's about it. I give them extra points (like 120) and I go with 100 points upgraded as much as possible. It's hard enough as a new guy to remember my stuff and theirs. I played with Talonbane last night and only remembered his special ability once!

Squad building is becoming increasingly challenging with each Wave of course, especially competitive builds. But, to me at least, it's a fun challenge. I'm so used by now to have a bunch of upgrades in my lists that making "simpler" builds can be difficult. It also then becomes a playing challenge, using ships with few or no upgrades/tricks.