Ok, I only survived the Rhymer ball this last time because a ISD flew into the fully engaged ball of 16 squadrons and I got to isolate Mithel and Sointir who were no longer protected by Vader and 2x Advanced.

Wife brought:

Rhymer

Vader

2x Advanced

Soontir

Mithral

Denganar

Boba Fett

Not listing all upgrades just those somewhat important.

Demolisher II, ISD Expanded Hanger & Tarkin, VSDI Defense liaison on all three ships...wow what a combo Tarkin and DL offers when it comes to freeing up ....everything for the imperials.

------

Jan

X-wing

YT-2400

A-wing

Wedge

Dutch

Dash

Han

AF with RUthless S, weapons liaison, boosted comms .........loaded MC 30.....MC80cc Rieekan, Raymus , boosted coms

What would be your strategy or build against such a ball....the soontir Dengar Mithral combos protected by Vader and 2 other Advanced seems almost uncrackable.

Help me crack it please. Tx

I like A-wings with flight controllers against it personally. Lots of people underestimate the value of speed in the squadron-vs-squadron game, but positioning and getting range for the alpha strike are both such a huge deal that speed five is a major advantage.

2 of them have a fair chance of downing one of those advanced escorts in a round; 4 are almost guaranteed to take any named they focus on--even Vader or Rhymer. I like to pair them with B-wings to give them some slower linebackers that also pack a wallop against ships when the squadron game is done, but that's a little bit of a tricky build to pull off.

The other option for picking apart a giant cloud of massed squadrons like that is anti-squadron fire from ships, especially the Escort Neb. Ship-based anti squadron should scale disproportionately with the points increase thanks to the increased targets, though I've never had the opportunity to play a larger game so I can't say for sure. Go for a couple of double arcs if you can and don't underestimate the value of concentrate fire, and dedicate the ship for that purpose--even at the expense of shots on ships if necessary. Clears em out real nice.

I just want to say, Remind your Wife she is AMAZING!!! because she plays Star wars with you

"I suggest a new strategy R2: let the wifey win."

I personally enjoy 8 x-wings and neb-b escorts. I think the general strategy against imperial synergy balls (i.e. what your wife is taking) is hitting it with lots of AAA.

Otherwise, just ignore it and hit her ships: that's a mighty fine squadron superiority ball that is otherwise meh at hitting your ships.

I'll second the AA fire from ships. Especially if you're running a Gun Team powered AF, it never hurts to throw those dice to help out.

So why 535 points?

Try settling on 400 points with the 132 points max for squadrons.

So why 535 points?

Try settling on 400 points with the 132 points max for squadrons.

Wife makes a team she wants then tells me how many points I have for mine. I can be 1 point over. We flip for first player. She usually comes in between 520-600 depnding on her mood.

I'll second the AA fire from ships. Especially if you're running a Gun Team powered AF, it never hurts to throw those dice to help out.

First game with these squads a week ago I had a Mark II A for the AA fire. I dropped it down along with the MC80 to a cc to make more points on squadrons and to get boosted comms and beef up e MC30. I picked named squads because of Rieekan. First few times using him.

You and others are likely right need to go back to AA. Maybe push that Mark A with RS right into the heart of the ball.

So why 535 points?

Try settling on 400 points with the 132 points max for squadrons.

Wife makes a team she wants then tells me how many points I have for mine. I can be 1 point over. We flip for first player. She usually comes in between 520-600 depnding on her mood.

Sounds like she gimping you. Would say try just a regular 400 point game with 1/3 max for squadrons. It a more even field and will push you both to grow and become better players. Also produces a more even game

Best Rebels for AA would be the Escort Frigate or AFII-A, as others have said. The other key to blocking the rhymer ball is to spread your squadrons out - higher speed squadrons like A-Wings and YT-2400s help with this. It's hard for Dengar (the Disintigrator) to Intel multiple rebel squadrons if they surround the enemy cloud - remember he only works at Range 1, and if Admiral Chirneau isn't on one of the ISDs, he's got no way to free up his bombers.

Sounds like she gimping you. Would say try just a regular 400 point game with 1/3 max for squadrons. It a more even field and will push you both to grow and become better players. Also produces a more even game

Your not married are you?

So why 535 points?

Try settling on 400 points with the 132 points max for squadrons.

Wife makes a team she wants then tells me how many points I have for mine. I can be 1 point over. We flip for first player. She usually comes in between 520-600 depnding on her mood.

Sounds like she gimping you. Would say try just a regular 400 point game with 1/3 max for squadrons. It a more even field and will push you both to grow and become better players. Also produces a more even game

So instead of recommending I play 400 and not worry about the R ball, I would rather hear about the R ball at those points in a 500-600 point game. You might be right and I could be jumping the gun, but see all those ships and squadrons looks beautiful and that is what I am drawn to. My wife seems to like it to despite the growning pains of learning a miniature game besides Space Hipulk for the first time.

It seems to me that the rebels have no great counter that I can see. AA guns again are the go to, but at higher points you can't survive a ISD chasing a R ball down with X17, leading shot, etc. hitting you IMHO. I'll try it, but the ISD that the R ball sits by is going to chew me up. Now maybe Akbar is the only counter at higher point values to such a ball. Since Ackbar had been played to death, we switch to Rieekan and that is when the modern R Ball came in. The one poster said the R ball was "meh" attacking ships. That might be the case at 400 points; however, the imperial ships are loaded and the glad has 5 upgrades, the ISD 7, and the VSD 6 so when the imperial ships hit big those"meh" squadrons at medium range with a squadron command and banked token with expanded handlers on the ISD do 4-6 plinks of damage that might as well be an ISD hitting you. So maybe the R ball breaks down after a certain level of points, but regardless at higher point values a protected Soontir and Mithral and Dengnar are seemingly impenetrable because all those anti squadron ships people mention can't last against the firepower of the fully loaded imperials...especially now that tractor beams shut down flanking maneuvers and relegate me to long distance red dice if I try them. Again, Ackbar might be the better solution vs Rieekan in this scenario.

I like play Armada, not skirmish (IMHO) games geared toward tournaments style. I get that the level of strategy and tactics is the same, we just like see lots of ships on the board. It is a visual thing. But there is the rub. Maybe the game really does break down after 400 points because everything is being designed for the tournament players which makes up the majority of the players/buyers and that is the necessary business model. I am not sure. I really don't care either as long as I can find a home rule to even the score it is fine by me. I appreciate the heads up, but I'll be knee capped by my better before playing less than 500 points. If needed, I'll just remove the one or two items that make the Ryhmer ball so annoying/successful...like D-man or Mithtral with D-man. I could play 20 more games to find out what to do, but I am hoping the community has an answer.

Since most people are stuck on 400 points, I might not get to the truth--either the ball is too strong at those point values or the answer is to avoid playing rock, paper, sissors and just play evenly matched teams. That would be fine to...to fine a counter to this style of R-ball. I played magic with my wife for ten years before discovering some of the newer games and we had 22 decks that were evenly matched as much as possible on purpose--except if certain ones faced each other and we just didn't play those together. We intentional balanced to make it fun. The ball she is playing is mostly my input and she did the rest. We are not maximizers, as we will do whatever to make the game the best it can be for us. Other people might like the wham bam thank you mam 400 points, but I feel like I just started to make something on the fleet builders when I realize I am out of points. I want to pimp out the ships--although some might say that is maximizing itself. I like my ships to have few upgrads...character, but also have what I feel is a full compliment of squadrons. Many times my friends and ai will play 20% of point has to be spent on squadrons.

On a 3x6' table, I think, " Where's the beef." I personally prefer 700-750 point games--so 535 is on the low side for me...it is what I can get the wife to agree to. That is her upper threshold. Some of my friends are eager to play 550-750 points. We see a break down at 750, but must admit that was before that squadron ball combo was used. The break down is also more of a space on the board issue as well. Flanking become difficult at a certain point as you all know. We knew about it the R-ball early, but avoided it on purpose knowing something just didn't smell right about maximizing it. However, as of late we have been trying it out and despite all my reading on the forums would love to see a live game of someone dealing with this beast. We are not looking to be competitive and win, but instead seek the come down to the wire moments--even point things out to each other to make that happen. It seems with the rock, paper ,sissors approach, one side wins big too often. We would like it to be more competitive.

Again, we had been using R balls before my wife, but not with so much protection and so concentrated. To avoid the rock , paper scissor approach I would often set up games and let the teams of two decide which side thy wanted to play after surveying the sides. The others would also bring two lists and my I or my team of two would decide which we wanted to play.

Maybe this is only a concern at higher points where more time is involved. I am no expert so have no idea. Take these as musings. By doing it this way lately, we could field an evenly matched force to the best of our abilities. Two lists that you build with an experienced player hearing your thoughts and picking the one he thinks is better and finding out make for a great game. With this approach you never have that no squadrons gamble, which seems like an alien concept to me as I value theme so much in my games. Obviously, the person making the list is going to understand it more, but as we grow we are quick to identify the important points.

Only the Rhymer ball which has just been implemented to its "fullest" (in our minds at that point level) puzzles us. But maybe I should ignore and focus on the ships like one person suggested. That is not a terrible idea and might I fact work if I could figure out how to neutralize Dengnar's ability to give heavy to Rhymer with so much squadrons protection. Taking so many hits from Soontir and Mithral is difficult and maybe the designers only focused on the tournament scene, instead of the casual higher point scence. Obviously, 400 points is really the max for tournaments given the time frame.

Again, we fly casual. I believe 400 points is not for me, but heck like about anything I'll play it if that is what is on the menu. I just prefer Marlin and Seabass instead of maybe the more refined 400 shrimp, lobster, and crab. I like spending 4-6 hours in total think tank mode, grinding away.. My wife prefers shorter games but I want 8-10 ships fighting it out on a 3x6' mat. We compromise. We often don't even use objectives games among friends because none of us game the system and attempt to fight to the bitter end. We are out for blood and a lot of it.

Now, if you are saying the game breaks down at higher point values becaus of Mithral and Howlrunner, and Rhymer, and Dengnar, then that is a point I would be interested in hearing because it does feel like at the high point values the rebels can't compete without Ackbar. I am more than willing to home rule and limit the one key factor or two of the R ball if I knew exactly what was the key operator(s). Right now it feels like soontir an Mithral when added with enough support, but maybe just taking out Dengnar is the answer. I hate to house rule a knee jerk reaction and wish I could hear more from those who played at higher point values, but they don't comment on this site very often knowing they can't get much info from the 400 pointer players. Again, I understand the allure of 400 points for speed, but I want to pimp out my rides...and then enjoy the ride--personal preference is all. Just too bad I am not hearing from a bunch of 500-600 pointers because it is one thing to say ignore the R Ball except when ships are loaded which 4-7 upgrades. Shield evaporate and the ball, although not the most efficient as one pointed out, can get 4 hull shots into the shield less side of an MC80 while engaged because of Dengnar. X17s baby....x17s. Seriously, the cheapest card in the game for what it does IMHO as an amateur. Can't think of one more card more valuable for the heavy hitters. We now limit them to one per ship per side because we fear them so much. Sure, we could go all crazy at the higher points and easily take them on all the big ships, but then we want our games to last. It goes back to that maximizing thing.

Do I take Ryhmer out entirely over 600 points which will be always except the very rare game store 400 point games. I stopped using Akbar because I was handing my wife too easily with it despite her efforts to ram the heck out of the front of the Congo line. However, that was before I showed her the evil power of the Ball mentioned above.

No, as Icarus, I will not come down to earth and play 400 point games on my huge board that makes 400 points looking like a scouting squad. As a historical miniature wargammer, I think we got an unhealthy case of bigger is better. I am use to playing 8 to 17 hours games. I don't get bored and like to focus on Gand battles of strategy. I have several friends who don't share this passion and understand those who want to play a game of Armada in an hour and a half to 2 1/2 hours...honestly I get that and respect that. Just in my world of Star Wars, I want more, more squadrons, more combat, more choices, more everything.

Target saturation.

Go by the rules in determining initiative and you will see a shift in play.

+++ Beating on the Wifey (533pts) +++

Nebulon-B Escort Frigate (95pts) [•Mon Mothma, •Redemption]

Nebulon-B Escort Frigate (69pts) [•Raymus Antilles, •Yavaris]

Nebulon-B Escort Frigate (57pts)

Nebulon-B Escort Frigate (57pts)

Nebulon-B Escort Frigate (57pts)

Nebulon-B Escort Frigate (57pts)

Nebulon-B Escort Frigate (57pts)

+ Squadrons (84pts) +

YT-1300 (13pts)

YT-1300 (13pts)

YT-1300 (13pts)

YT-1300 (13pts)

YT-1300 (13pts)

•Jan Ors (19pts)

+ Objectives +

Assault Objective [Most Wanted]

Defense Objective [Contested Outpost]

Navigation Objective [intel Sweep]

I like A-wings with flight controllers against it personally. Lots of people underestimate the value of speed in the squadron-vs-squadron game, but positioning and getting range for the alpha strike are both such a huge deal that speed five is a major advantage.

2 of them have a fair chance of downing one of those advanced escorts in a round; 4 are almost guaranteed to take any named they focus on--even Vader or Rhymer. I like to pair them with B-wings to give them some slower linebackers that also pack a wallop against ships when the squadron game is done, but that's a little bit of a tricky build to pull off.

The other option for picking apart a giant cloud of massed squadrons like that is anti-squadron fire from ships, especially the Escort Neb. Ship-based anti squadron should scale disproportionately with the points increase thanks to the increased targets, though I've never had the opportunity to play a larger game so I can't say for sure. Go for a couple of double arcs if you can and don't underestimate the value of concentrate fire, and dedicate the ship for that purpose--even at the expense of shots on ships if necessary. Clears em out real nice.

Man I love , love, love a-wings but I was playing a Rieekan build so attempting to get named pilots in. Maybe that is not the solution and I need to switch commanders to counter that R ball which might not seem like such a heavy hitter except the imperials are. Maybe the fact we just fight it out and don't play objectives is the Rebel's problem. Maybe the fact that I don't ignore her R ball I know she is bringing and just get 132 points of ships and go for it is the problem. I don't know. I don't like the idea of ever playing imperial vs imperial or rebel vs. Rebel just like I don't like the idea of playing no squadrons because to me it just doesn't fit the theme. Maybe the R ball is just too powerful over 500 points and because the designers intent was to design a 400 point game the experience breaks down at some point level they never play tested because they where focused on the two hour players and tournament scene. The tournament scene is clearly what keeps these games making their money so I wouldn't be surprised if they never thought about the casual player amassing hoards of ships and spending 4-5 hours playing. I would love to know which percentage is playing 500-600 point games. I have no idea but if I had to guess 10-14%. Clearly R balls rolling around with ISDs with 7 upgrades including the admiral and an MC 80'with equal point (185 I believe) with two support vessels with 4-5 upgrades are dangerous.

Now add in a R ball of slightly lesser points that can wipeout the squad listed above because of Mithral Soontir and Degnar cover by Vader and two afavanved and no you got a weapon takin pg 4- hull shots at a recently exposed hull zone created by a Demolisher or ISD II fully loaded. Again, maybe I need to be more aggressive with my AF and use Fligjt controllers or RS and upgrade to a mark IIA but I downgraded from it recently to give the MC30 OE, admonition, TRC, and the expensive expanded Launchers to compete with the glad Demolisher performance. The admonition is proving to be a nice upgrade by getting rid of two dice via loosing tow tokens to punch through a frontal arc leaving one redirect and evade for the TRC and then coming around.

Again, with so few player playing 500 to 600 point games it is difficult to find and real data. Maybe the game just favors the R ball after a certain number of points. I honestly don't have a clue at this point. Maybe I just can't fly.

I would never doubt you and love the name you gave to the list,, but after $800 dollar spent on all the stuff and accessories it might be difficult to spend more money to get 3 more neb bs and one more R&Vs but I must say I think I will have to go for it. Just because I would love to see 7 ships confusing the heck out of her. Lol.

Thank you. If anything, maybe you have shown that the game doesn't break down at any reasonable point levels and that only our own limited imagination and experience does!!!!!

Now, usually I can hide my purchases vis paypal etc. or do them incrementally so they seemingly go somewhat under the rader, but in this case it would be very obvious having just made the final payment in my PayPal account for my gameroom expansion. It might just have to be a case of, "You shouldn't have pounded my so bad with the R ball because see what you made me buy just to beat you." However, then I would always have the 7 nebulon Bs sitting there as a reminder that she "forced" me you get the deterrent and then they would be stuck on the shelf. Could always resell them :-).

Now what if I start playing 7 neb B and she drops the squadrons all of a sudden to a more "reasonable" threat level, do you think they (neb bs) could hang. I saw your video on the neb b with Nav team, etc. and certainly gained some more respect for them, but still wonder if they could hang if she switched strategies.

Target saturation.

Go by the rules in determining initiative and you will see a shift in play.

+++ Beating on the Wifey (533pts) +++

Nebulon-B Escort Frigate (95pts) [•Mon Mothma, •Redemption]

Nebulon-B Escort Frigate (69pts) [•Raymus Antilles, •Yavaris]

Nebulon-B Escort Frigate (57pts)

Nebulon-B Escort Frigate (57pts)

Nebulon-B Escort Frigate (57pts)

Nebulon-B Escort Frigate (57pts)

Nebulon-B Escort Frigate (57pts)

+ Squadrons (84pts) +

YT-1300 (13pts)

YT-1300 (13pts)

YT-1300 (13pts)

YT-1300 (13pts)

YT-1300 (13pts)

•Jan Ors (19pts)

+ Objectives +

Assault Objective [Most Wanted]

Defense Objective [Contested Outpost]

Navigation Objective [intel Sweep]

especially the Escort Neb. Ship-based anti squadron should scale disproportionately with the points increase thanks to the increased targets, though I've never had the opportunity to play a larger game so I can't say for sure. Go for a couple of double arcs if you can and don't underestimate the value of concentrate fire, and dedicate the ship for that purpose--even at the expense of shots on ships if necessary. Clears em out real nice.

Yep, seems I need to at the very least go to four ships with a least one neb b, if not two p, is seems is the concerns us so far. Dedicate one to taking out the squadrons and place it last with Yavaris and Raymus.

Tx

Wow, I misread the YT-1300s for Yt-2400s. In glancing just assumed they were YT-2400s because I never ganpve much thought to the 1300 but the escort and counter is an even better idea then one I thought you proposed. High hull value to take the Soontir hits and Mithral hits while bogging down ships and returning fire. Clever.,very very clever...tx.

Target saturation.

Go by the rules in determining initiative and you will see a shift in play.

+++ Beating on the Wifey (533pts) +++

Nebulon-B Escort Frigate (95pts) [•Mon Mothma, •Redemption]

Nebulon-B Escort Frigate (69pts) [•Raymus Antilles, •Yavaris]

Nebulon-B Escort Frigate (57pts)

Nebulon-B Escort Frigate (57pts)

Nebulon-B Escort Frigate (57pts)

Nebulon-B Escort Frigate (57pts)

Nebulon-B Escort Frigate (57pts)

+ Squadrons (84pts) +

YT-1300 (13pts)

YT-1300 (13pts)

YT-1300 (13pts)

YT-1300 (13pts)

YT-1300 (13pts)

•Jan Ors (19pts)

+ Objectives +

Assault Objective [Most Wanted]

Defense Objective [Contested Outpost]

Navigation Objective [intel Sweep]

I just want to say, Remind your Wife she is AMAZING!!! because she plays Star wars with you

Congrats on the good play I have heard about. Clonetroper5

We are HS sweethearts from decades ago so it was a work in progress. We started playing magic after moving to FL in 2001...a lot of magic. We only played with each other. Then we got into thr euro gamer thing 4-5 years. I started as a historical miniature gamer in the late 80s, but getting someone 38 interested in miniature war games was a stretch at this age. None of my friend's wives play miniatures let alone euro games so it is rare. But I am not sure she is sold on Armada to be honest. I know I certainly pushed her up to the points I like to play too fast. Should have stuck to 300 points and 400 points longer with her, but the trust on all the euro game purchases she loves is buying me time to right that mistake and I see she is really starting to pick it up. I mean she is a gamer after all, but she is having what I imagine would be the miniature game intimidation favor thing going on that she might be finally overcoming. As with all games you have to start small, and my lust for grand epic battles probably slowed her development down. Regardless of past mistakes, she seems to really be getting it these last two weeks, but honestly only time will tell. When she asked to play it I will know I have succeeded, but until then the jury is out. Besides X-wing and space hulk, it is the only game on the tables in the gameroom she would think about touching--but who knows once she gets use to some miniatures maybe the flood gates will open....one can hope right? I have only played a few games of X-wing and I let her know I am teaching her and focusing on the the more difficult one for a year because I fear that once she gets that quick dice rolling rush she won't appreciate the slow burn of Armada. X-wing sits off to the side on its own table starring at us.

Can I say I am jelly my wife does not play Armada...... (all though she does want to play X-wing again soonish, yeaa)

​

I know this have nothing to do with the topic. So mm dice roll better, and tell her to roll worse ;-p

With the way I use squadrons, YT 1300's are perfect.

I like to keep squadrons about 2 bases in of AA fire so when they get engaged, they have AA support. I also allow my enemy to make the engagement, unless I have a squadron command so I can throw them at them but usually I feel that is a bad idea because that means the opponent gets an extra turn to attack. Oh, split the formation into a V with Jan at its center. You will be able to then squadron command and move out of Soontir/Vader range and kills one or the other so that you don't take the free damage. . . Or kill Mithel because he is a bit of a bas****

+++ Beating on the Wife 2.0 (519pts) +++

TRC30 - MC30c Scout Frigate (85pts) [Assault Proton Torpedoes, Ordnance Experts, Turbolaser Reroute Circuits]

TRC30 - MC30c Scout Frigate (85pts) [Assault Proton Torpedoes, Ordnance Experts, Turbolaser Reroute Circuits]

Nebulon-B Escort Frigate (95pts) [•Mon Mothma, •Redemption]

Nebulon-B Escort Frigate (69pts) [•Raymus Antilles, •Yavaris]

Nebulon-B Escort Frigate (57pts)

Nebulon-B Escort Frigate (57pts)

+ Squadrons (71pts) +

YT-1300 (13pts)

YT-1300 (13pts)

YT-1300 (13pts)

YT-1300 (13pts)

•Jan Ors (19pts)

+ Objectives +

Assault Objective [Most Wanted]

Defense Objective [Contested Outpost]

Navigation Objective [intel Sweep]

Created with BattleScribe (http://www.battlescribe.net)

Ruthless Strategists, MOAR Y's NEEDS MOAR Y's.

Last time I faced a major Rhymer ball, I flew an AFMKII-A with Gallant Haven, Ruthless Strategists and Quad Laser Turrets straight into it, driving a pair of X-Wings with it...

You are quite able to hammer Lynchpins of the Rhymer ball fairly effectively - and if they do what is normally the smart thing, and try to smash your ship to pieces - you get Quad Turret Counters which also trigger Ruthless Strategists... And its really their best choice, because shooting the X-Wings with Bombers will do nothing.

Ruthless Strategists, MOAR Y's NEEDS MOAR Y's.

Ruthless Strategists, MOAR Y's NEEDS MOAR Y's.

I think the YT 1300's work for Ruthless Strategies

But cost more, and dont have bomber for when the ships finish cleaning the dirty rhymer ball!