I am no expert but I wonder if independence could have some sway to help. I mean 4-6 B wings positioned in a decent manner could get some serious work done. I love independence and have seen a lot of very surprised very worried looks across the table from me when they see their attack lanes cut off by B wings.

By this I mean. He is hoping to fly in pattern A to get to ship X, B wings cut off that route and if he tries it they will kersplode him, if he switches to flight pattern B maybe you have some other ships set up to blow him up. or it really twists his plans. Kinda like how packs of dogs circle and cage a more powerful prey. Back him into where he can't instagib something and then maybe have a shot?

The problem with this how fast the jump-kill happens. You would need something like 7-8 B-wings to have a decent chance at stopping Demolisher in time. And it wouldn't be by chasing him down with Indy, but by having them in position and waiting to activate during the squadron phase when he jumps for the kill, in between his first shot and the two follow-ups.

I really think the answers to the Demolisher are either Rieekan with individual heavy hitters like pimped out MC30T's, or a list that underbids him.

To one of the other posters: 5 firesprays have as much AS power as 5 tie fighters, but one is 90 points and one is 40 points. I still don't understand why people think FS's are great anti-squadron tools when they're less efficient than tie-bombers at antisquadron.

@Norsehound- that's more along the lines of what I'm hoping for. The dial + ET allows a pretty broad range of positioning, but it's not infinite- the ship has to move somewhere (or, it has to stay back, which to me is just as good- it means it's not blowing you up!) Maybe some combination of that and a rogue fighter attack? You want to make it so that you punish Clonisher for advancing and punish Clonisher for not advancing.

Ok this is really getting out of hand and has derailed the entire forum.

5 Bombers, preferablly Firesprays + Rhymer, you have 10 Blue on first turn squadron phase. MSU can't stand up to this regardless of first or second. The so called "bomber" list in the last game of Vassal wasn't. It sub optimal bombers at best with an extraordinarily inefficent combo of Sontir, Denagar, Howlrunner. Non of which could punish Raiders/Glads.

Yes the Glad has range. This is know. Glads also failed to win Worlds to non bomber squadrons in a meta in which they were arguably more powerful (yes it was built different). It comes down to blocking the Glad, Bombing the Glad, trading an equivalent throwaway ship for the glad, not flying into Black dice range and using your longer range batteries as you force them to chase.

There's a reason none of the 3-4 Firespray + Rhymer lists made it into that final. Sure they might (might) get the alpha strike on Demo, but they'll get torn up against anything with a decent fighter screen.

What constitues a decent 'fighter screen'. 5 Firesprays, Dengar, Rhymer for 39 hull, Glad II, Flight Controllers, Raider should have no issues with any 'decent' fighter screen. Unless they overinvested in anti squadrons.

This Glad combo has always been known. There were two choices. Non gen con. Glad I, ACM, Intel, Engine Techs, Demo was Wave 1. GenCon special VSD, Glad Demo ACM, Glad ACM, Glad, did the same thing, 9 point bid, go first, more activcations, double activation demolisher, sound familiar. Prior games have shown lists like these reliably loose to bombers. Clon hardly faced a refined bomber. So why are we derailing the whole forum? Why is the notion that a list is "invincible" taken seriously? I love that Raiders got up. I love MSU Imps winning. I love a game rewarding a good player. But the circlejerk has gone on a little long now.

I, for example, was running 5x B-wings with Dutch/Wedge/Jan, Yavaris, and 2X AF2 with flight controllers, and I can tell you I *wish* i had faced this list. Firesprays are great if your opponent didn't bring fighters; they're a pretty inefficient waste of points if they did, because that Rogue is doing you no good in the furball.

In this case, I agree with Norse: nobody actually thinks Clon's list is invincible, especially when not driven by him. But it does present a very interesting new puzzle for the rest of us to try and figure out, particularly after having watched what he did to a series of good players who tried lots of different ways to beat him and got summarily crushed.

A thought...

Blimps (384)

Precision Strike // Hyperspace Assault // Superior Positions (Or minefields)

3x MC30 // Ordnance Experts / APTs / Advanced Projectors

CR-90A // Rieekan / Engine Techs / Jaina's Light

3x YT-2400

Spread the 30s out, protect Jaina's light with the YTs. Speed 2 on everyone, and then speed up to escape the Demolisher and throw the YT2400s in his face. The clonlist may respond by bunching up the RDRs to try dealing with the increased fighters, but that could make them easier to avoid.

Ideally each MC30 is designed to be able to deal with one of the RDRs and avoid the Demolisher. If you can punch out the Raiders to gain a point advantage, you could win the field without eliminating the Demolisher (you need every advantage you can get).

The RDR runner could cover this eventuality by taking Ozzel instead of screed, but that's cutting down on some of the effectiveness of his dice and relying only on the Ordnance experts for modification. It also locks him into navigation commands.

And if you use Mines, you can park all of them across the play area in the expected zones where the RDRs/demolishers would need to go to set up their attack run, and just hold in your deployment zone. Corvettes can't take mine or asteroid hits well.

To one of the other posters: 5 firesprays have as much AS power as 5 tie fighters, but one is 90 points and one is 40 points. I still don't understand why people think FS's are great anti-squadron tools when they're less efficient than tie-bombers at antisquadron.

@Norsehound- that's more along the lines of what I'm hoping for. The dial + ET allows a pretty broad range of positioning, but it's not infinite- the ship has to move somewhere (or, it has to stay back, which to me is just as good- it means it's not blowing you up!) Maybe some combination of that and a rogue fighter attack? You want to make it so that you punish Clonisher for advancing and punish Clonisher for not advancing.

Did anybody say it was 'good' or not inefficent. Nobody thinks that FS are great at anti squadron. But 6 Hull, Rouge, Flight Controllers, Hero ships are some of their advantages/ways to value add.

5 Ties + Howlrunner is a pretty common fighter screen, I face it pretty regularly. With the Hull, Rouge and a bit of help (Demolisher II, Flight Controllers, Dengar) they win this flight pretty easily/quickly and for not many losses. Not to mention any Escort ships Fireballs run.

Rebels is a slightly different story but since they are slower you get way more out of Intel/Rouge/Rhymer.

Now back to "Reining-ing" this list

This setup shows that the MC80 is using a squadron command during its activation, which is probably before Demo activates. That should get you at least one lick in.

If Clonisher speed is 3+ over, he'll necessarily run into the MC80's side arc and only be able to long range. When he goes first again, he'll get that front arc shot at close, but it will be unlikely to one shot the MC80. If he doesn't pounce, he'll eat 2 rounds of H6's (or whatever other speed 3 bomber of your choice.) In this case, I want the ship cruising parallel to the board or perhaps just sitting at speed 0 until a target wanders into the activated bomber's threat range.

Just to be clear here to the other posters: I think we're all on the same team here (i.e. the entire world vs Clontroper).

DUR, the obvious counter to that is just activating Raiders until the MC80 has gone, then activating the Demolisher to fly over the Scurrgs and into the MC80...

DUR, the obvious counter to that is just activating Raiders until the MC80 has gone, then activating the Demolisher to fly over the Scurrgs and into the MC80...

Not to mention the extreme unlikelihood of Demolisher having been deployed in that position to begin with, or of the fighters having gotten there before Demo is much much closer than this. You're using the entire width of the board here...

DUR, the obvious counter to that is just activating Raiders until the MC80 has gone, then activating the Demolisher to fly over the Scurrgs and into the MC80...

Not to mention the extreme unlikelihood of Demolisher having been deployed in that position to begin with, or of the fighters having gotten there before Demo is much much closer than this. You're using the entire width of the board here...

basically, your going to get a ship hit and likely knocked out by Dem...excuse me CLONisher. the question is can you recover?

DUR, the obvious counter to that is just activating Raiders until the MC80 has gone, then activating the Demolisher to fly over the Scurrgs and into the MC80...

Not to mention the extreme unlikelihood of Demolisher having been deployed in that position to begin with, or of the fighters having gotten there before Demo is much much closer than this. You're using the entire width of the board here...

Sorry for the confusion: the fighters are activated by the MC80 only if demo is in range: if the demo jumps the fighters (which would be post-shooting) then Demo has to end up in the MC80's long range arc without unleashing the blacks or suffer the consequences of more bombing. Otherwise, the H6's just keep formation with the MC80 (the formation of being at just within long range). It's avoidable yes, but if it keeps Clonisher at bay, then job's well done.

Basically, I'm trying to see what can be done if you catch the clonisher out of "pounce" range but dont' want to just wait to get blown up- you're not utterly helpless in that case as the initial bomber run and the next round broadside will usually finish the ship off. Though the rest of the fleet is probably on fire at this point...

More clarification:

The formation is putting fighters at long range of your ship inbetween the ship and demo, so that if Clonisher attempts in any way to start its attack run, you initiate the bombing run and force the "jump the fighters OR start sub-optimal attack run".

In The Land of the Alpha-Strikers, the Rhymer Man is King

Faction: Galactic Empire
Points: 394/400

Commander: Admiral Motti

Assault Objective: Precision Strike
Defense Objective: Fleet Ambush
Navigation Objective: Superior Positions

[ flagship ] Imperial I-Class Star Destroyer (110 points)
- Admiral Motti ( 24 points)
- Expanded Hangar Bay ( 5 points)
- Boosted Comms ( 4 points)

Imperial I-Class Star Destroyer (110 points)
- Expanded Hangar Bay ( 5 points)
- Boosted Comms ( 4 points)

1 Major Rhymer ( 16 points)
8 TIE Bomber Squadrons ( 72 points)
1 Dengar ( 20 points)
2 TIE Advanced Squadrons ( 24 points)

Fleet created with Armada Warlords

Tactics: ENFORCED STERN CHASE (with 2 ISDs. Yes, I know how unthematic and silly this is. Please remove Demolisher from the game FFG etc. etc.)

Threat Range: Long + Range 4 + Medium

Threat Magnitude: 9 Black Bomber; 3 Black Non-Bomber

Vulnerability to 2 Tie Squadron Cover or Instigator: Approximately zero.

P.S. I will continue to add more silly anti-Clon lists as the night proceeds.

In The Land of the Alpha-Strikers, the Rhymer Man is King

Faction: Galactic Empire

Points: 394/400

Commander: Admiral Motti

Assault Objective: Precision Strike

Defense Objective: Fleet Ambush

Navigation Objective: Superior Positions

[ flagship ] Imperial I-Class Star Destroyer (110 points)

- Admiral Motti ( 24 points)

- Expanded Hangar Bay ( 5 points)

- Boosted Comms ( 4 points)

Imperial I-Class Star Destroyer (110 points)

- Expanded Hangar Bay ( 5 points)

- Boosted Comms ( 4 points)

1 Major Rhymer ( 16 points)

8 TIE Bomber Squadrons ( 72 points)

1 Dengar ( 20 points)

2 TIE Advanced Squadrons ( 24 points)

Fleet created with Armada Warlords

Tactics: ENFORCED STERN CHASE (with 2 ISDs. Yes, I know how unthematic and silly this is. Please remove Demolisher from the game FFG etc. etc.)

Threat Range: Long + Range 4 + Medium

Threat Magnitude: 9 Black Bomber; 3 Black Non-Bomber

Vulnerability to 2 Tie Squadron Cover or Instigator: Approximately zero.

P.S. I will continue to add more silly anti-Clon lists as the night proceeds.

this is basaically what i would use

Ok this is really getting out of hand and has derailed the entire forum.

5 Bombers, preferablly Firesprays + Rhymer, you have 10 Blue on first turn squadron phase. MSU can't stand up to this regardless of first or second. The so called "bomber" list in the last game of Vassal wasn't. It sub optimal bombers at best with an extraordinarily inefficent combo of Sontir, Denagar, Howlrunner. Non of which could punish Raiders/Glads.

Yes the Glad has range. This is know. Glads also failed to win Worlds to non bomber squadrons in a meta in which they were arguably more powerful (yes it was built different). It comes down to blocking the Glad, Bombing the Glad, trading an equivalent throwaway ship for the glad, not flying into Black dice range and using your longer range batteries as you force them to chase.

I agree, this is getting out of hand.

I take issue with calling my wonderful fighter superiority wing inefficient. They were very efficient against every other list I faced. Other players who had placed more points in bombers watched in horror as their bombers were decimated and my bombers were able to spend the game pounding the target of their choosing. I just wasn't banking on a ship taking out a 10 hull victory between activations when I designed the list.

this is basaically what i would use

But that being said, wouldn't you just take First Player, Pick Fleet Ambush, and attempt to kill an ISD straight up?

In The Land of the Alpha-Strikers, the Rhymer Man is King

Faction: Galactic Empire

Points: 394/400

Commander: Admiral Motti

Assault Objective: Precision Strike

Defense Objective: Fleet Ambush

Navigation Objective: Superior Positions

[ flagship ] Imperial I-Class Star Destroyer (110 points)

- Admiral Motti ( 24 points)

- Expanded Hangar Bay ( 5 points)

- Boosted Comms ( 4 points)

Imperial I-Class Star Destroyer (110 points)

- Expanded Hangar Bay ( 5 points)

- Boosted Comms ( 4 points)

1 Major Rhymer ( 16 points)

8 TIE Bomber Squadrons ( 72 points)

1 Dengar ( 20 points)

2 TIE Advanced Squadrons ( 24 points)

Fleet created with Armada Warlords

Tactics: ENFORCED STERN CHASE (with 2 ISDs. Yes, I know how unthematic and silly this is. Please remove Demolisher from the game FFG etc. etc.)

Threat Range: Long + Range 4 + Medium

Threat Magnitude: 9 Black Bomber; 3 Black Non-Bomber

Vulnerability to 2 Tie Squadron Cover or Instigator: Approximately zero.

P.S. I will continue to add more silly anti-Clon lists as the night proceeds.

this is basaically what i would use

Of course, the threat range of the Imperial version is far, far superior- speed 4 medium makes pulling off the "keep away" much, much easier. Of course, the list would be "reining" away! Once activation parity is achieved, you u-turn and engage, correct?

If Demolisher moves early, it dies to bombers and ISD Arcs. If it moves late? Also dies to bombers.

Of course, the threat range of the Imperial version is far, far superior- speed 4 medium makes pulling off the "keep away" much, much easier. Of course, the list would be "reining" away! Once activation parity is achieved, you u-turn and engage, correct?

You can! But you probably don't have to.

Next list!

Activation Abuse

Faction: Rebel Alliance
Points: 384/400

Commander: General Rieekan

Assault Objective: Opening Salvo
Defense Objective: Fleet Ambush
Navigation Objective: Superior Positions

CR90 Corvette B (39 points)
- SW 7 Ion Batteries ( 5 points)

CR90 Corvette B (39 points)
- SW 7 Ion Batteries ( 5 points)

CR90 Corvette B (39 points)
- SW 7 Ion Batteries ( 5 points)

CR90 Corvette B (39 points)
- SW 7 Ion Batteries ( 5 points)

CR90 Corvette B (39 points)
- SW 7 Ion Batteries ( 5 points)

CR90 Corvette B (39 points)
- SW 7 Ion Batteries ( 5 points)

[ flagship ] Nebulon-B Support Refit (51 points)
- General Rieekan ( 30 points)
- Salvation ( 7 points)
- Slaved Turrets ( 6 points)

1 Han Solo ( 26 points)

Fleet created with Armada Warlords

Tactics: Activate after the Clonisher. Heck, do it twice! Now Activate before the Clonisher! For best results (and maximum tears from Screed's stupid bionic eye): NK90 --> Salvation --> Han Solo --> Han Solo --> Salvation [Demolisher allowed to act again here.]

Threat Range: Like it matters. ACTIVATION ABUSE

Threat Magnitude: 8-10 Reds; 4 Blues; (2 Blue/2 Black Non-Bomber)

Vulnerability to Demolisher Double Tap: Nah

Downside: Rhymerballs or Ackbar probably ruin you.

Ok this is really getting out of hand and has derailed the entire forum.

5 Bombers, preferablly Firesprays + Rhymer, you have 10 Blue on first turn squadron phase. MSU can't stand up to this regardless of first or second. The so called "bomber" list in the last game of Vassal wasn't. It sub optimal bombers at best with an extraordinarily inefficent combo of Sontir, Denagar, Howlrunner. Non of which could punish Raiders/Glads.

Yes the Glad has range. This is know. Glads also failed to win Worlds to non bomber squadrons in a meta in which they were arguably more powerful (yes it was built different). It comes down to blocking the Glad, Bombing the Glad, trading an equivalent throwaway ship for the glad, not flying into Black dice range and using your longer range batteries as you force them to chase.

I agree, this is getting out of hand.

I take issue with calling my wonderful fighter superiority wing inefficient. They were very efficient against every other list I faced. Other players who had placed more points in bombers watched in horror as their bombers were decimated and my bombers were able to spend the game pounding the target of their choosing. I just wasn't banking on a ship taking out a 10 hull victory between activations when I designed the list.

I applaud the attempt Trizzo, but if it were as easy as list-struction, we wouldn't be scratching our heads as much I imagine!

this is basaically what i would use

But that being said, wouldn't you just take First Player, Pick Fleet Ambush, and attempt to kill an ISD straight up?

Hmm... contested outpost instead?

Anyways, Rebel equivalent:

DUR's Derpy Running Fish (386 pts):

MC80 CMD, boosted comms, engine techs, Garm- 143

MC80 CMD, boosted comms, engine techs- 118

8 Y-wings- 80 (or substitute 5 Scuurgs)

2 X-wings- 26

Jan- 19

Objector wow... seven ships for activation! I think I'd be sending the demolisher after the Yavaris and try to get it into the side arc. Can six points preserve a ship, even with double brace, from being hit by the Demolisher and double-rammed? Han might be great, but it's not like he bypasses shields or something.

There are two problems fighters face against this list. The first is that the clonlist is designed entirely to kill the carriers and mostly ignore the fighters. Clon's build has instigator, but that's it. Once all capital ships are destroyed you are tabled and all points go to the clonlist regardless of what he lost.

The second is that these ships are too fast for fighters to catch. In roadblock mode the fighters can only get one attack against passing capital ships before they speed off. You'd have to be precise about your placement to drop all fighters so that they maximize a shot against a single arc and do the 6+ points of damage needed to blow up a raider or the GSD. Rogues mitigate this some, but I think most rogues go speed 3 and will eventually be outrun by the faster capital ships.

I applaud the attempt Trizzo, but if it were as easy as list-struction, we wouldn't be scratching our heads as much I imagine!

I fail to see how anyone is scratching their head. It is the same idea based around what GenCon special was, acitvations and a Demolisher. This isn't just list construction on paper, its a list that is currently undefeated with three top three in store tourneys in a row. Against everything from squadrons, to MSU/activation lists, Gladiators, pretty much anything (sure not Clon5 but i wouldn't be afeared to face it) because the same stratergy applies to every other MSU list post Wave 2. Kill their small ships with 5-6 rouges in squadron phase with Rhymer. If you want to see how much reach it has deploy a ship at 3, put your Firesprays at max 2. Then move Rhymer 3-4 and move your Fireprays as far as they can go. You will put 8-10 dice on a Small ship turn 1 if they move foward.

I agree, this is getting out of hand.

I take issue with calling my wonderful fighter superiority wing inefficient. They were very efficient against every other list I faced. Other players who had placed more points in bombers watched in horror as their bombers were decimated and my bombers were able to spend the game pounding the target of their choosing. I just wasn't banking on a ship taking out a 10 hull victory between activations when I designed the list.

Strawmen much. I fully acknolwedge the inefficencies in a Bomberball. There are ways to mitigate them. And how didn't I take into account a Gladiator? I run an indentical Gladiator in my Bomberball and I bid for first. The only difference is I have run APT. I know how dangerous a Gladiator is. I never stopped running it.

Both posts are perfect example of the hyperbole and circlejerk. Somebody has a different opinion, better make up fallacious arguments or misquote because they can't possible have anything of value to say or experience to share.

@Conscientious Objector. Thanks for breaking in and saying that i'm arguing in a 'ceterain way'. If you by that you mean doing nothing but get misqutoed I would agree.

@ Dur, wow. You made the thread and asked for input. Spent all the time and effort making elaborte diagrams and facilitating discussion about how to beat a list, i suggest how and now i have to 'fly casual' (aka stop talking) because reasons. That's weak. I'm telling you the tactic that has destroyed every MSU list i've gone up against but your not considering it. Try it. It will work. MSU has no fighter superiority. Their game plan is to ingore them. But you can't actucally ingore 9 Blue Bomber, 2 Black Bomber per turn when 4 out of 5 ships only have brace and 2 shields...

Ok this is really getting out of hand and has derailed the entire forum.

5 Bombers, preferablly Firesprays + Rhymer, you have 10 Blue on first turn squadron phase. MSU can't stand up to this regardless of first or second. The so called "bomber" list in the last game of Vassal wasn't. It sub optimal bombers at best with an extraordinarily inefficent combo of Sontir, Denagar, Howlrunner. Non of which could punish Raiders/Glads.

Yes the Glad has range. This is know. Glads also failed to win Worlds to non bomber squadrons in a meta in which they were arguably more powerful (yes it was built different). It comes down to blocking the Glad, Bombing the Glad, trading an equivalent throwaway ship for the glad, not flying into Black dice range and using your longer range batteries as you force them to chase.

I agree, this is getting out of hand.

I take issue with calling my wonderful fighter superiority wing inefficient. They were very efficient against every other list I faced. Other players who had placed more points in bombers watched in horror as their bombers were decimated and my bombers were able to spend the game pounding the target of their choosing. I just wasn't banking on a ship taking out a 10 hull victory between activations when I designed the list.

I applaud the attempt Trizzo, but if it were as easy as list-struction, we wouldn't be scratching our heads as much I imagine!

Ok this is really getting out of hand and has derailed the entire forum.

5 Bombers, preferablly Firesprays + Rhymer, you have 10 Blue on first turn squadron phase. MSU can't stand up to this regardless of first or second. The so called "bomber" list in the last game of Vassal wasn't. It sub optimal bombers at best with an extraordinarily inefficent combo of Sontir, Denagar, Howlrunner. Non of which could punish Raiders/Glads.

Yes the Glad has range. This is know. Glads also failed to win Worlds to non bomber squadrons in a meta in which they were arguably more powerful (yes it was built different). It comes down to blocking the Glad, Bombing the Glad, trading an equivalent throwaway ship for the glad, not flying into Black dice range and using your longer range batteries as you force them to chase.

I agree, this is getting out of hand.

I take issue with calling my wonderful fighter superiority wing inefficient. They were very efficient against every other list I faced. Other players who had placed more points in bombers watched in horror as their bombers were decimated and my bombers were able to spend the game pounding the target of their choosing. I just wasn't banking on a ship taking out a 10 hull victory between activations when I designed the list.

I fail to see how anyone is scratching their head. It is the same idea based around what GenCon special was, acitvations and a Demolisher. This isn't just list construction on paper.

And so many strawmen. I fully acknolwedge the inefficencies in a Bomberball. And how didn't I take into account a Gladiator? I run an indentical Gladiator in my Bomberball and I bid for first. The only difference is I run APT. I know how dangerous a Gladiator is. I never stopped running it.

Both posts are perfect example of the hyperbole and circlejerk. Somebody has a different opinion, better make up fallacious arguments or strawmen because they can't possible have anything of value to say.

Fly casual, buddy. If you didn't get the intention, I'm TRYING to see someone destroy the ship/tactic in question. Good luck to you.

@DUR: If you pick Fleet Ambush, 1 of your "forward" ships is fairly likely to die turn 1 to a 5-black alpha strike. Especially given that only your Glad actually has a redirect.

@Norsehound: How does the Demolisher get through the ablative CR90s before the Clon-player starts losing Raiders? It sounds like a joke, but the Demolisher has to move 3rd-last (or earlier), and it'll be hard to fit it between six tube-zombies.

@Trizzo and Madag: Please don't argue like this. This is descending into insults and hostility.

Jek Porkins Commemorative B(BQ)-Wing List aka "I Can Hold It Together!"

Faction: Rebel Alliance
Points: 398/400

Commander: General Dodonna

Assault Objective: Advanced Gunnery
Defense Objective: Contested Outpost
Navigation Objective: Minefields

MC80 Assault Cruiser (114 points) -- The "Chin"
- Defiance ( 5 points)
- Lando Callriassian ( 4 points)
- Advanced Projectors ( 6 points)
- Electronic Countermeasures ( 7 points)
- XI7 Turbolasers ( 6 points)

[ flagship ] MC80 Command Cruiser (106 points) The "Fist"
- General Dodonna ( 20 points)
- Independence ( 8 points)
- Adar Tallon ( 10 points)
- Boosted Comms ( 4 points)
- Electronic Countermeasures ( 7 points)

4 B-Wing Squadrons ( 56 points)
2 X-Wing Squadrons ( 26 points)
1 Jan Ors ( 19 points)

Fleet created with Armada Warlords

Tactics: The "Chin" should survive a full triple-tap (APs mean a total of 23 damage to die; Lando = Brace 2.0). The "Fist" then aims to hit back. If the Clon-player gets too cutsey with not engaging, you can start killing RDRs with your B's. Probably. Maybe.

I like the Imperial Squadron list better. DUR's might work better, too. I dunno!

this is basaically what i would use

But that being said, wouldn't you just take First Player, Pick Fleet Ambush, and attempt to kill an ISD straight up?

If Demolisher moves early, it dies to bombers and ISD Arcs. If it moves late? Also dies to bombers.

Of course, the threat range of the Imperial version is far, far superior- speed 4 medium makes pulling off the "keep away" much, much easier. Of course, the list would be "reining" away! Once activation parity is achieved, you u-turn and engage, correct?

You can! But you probably don't have to.

Next list!

Activation Abuse

Faction: Rebel Alliance

Points: 384/400

Commander: General Rieekan

Assault Objective: Opening Salvo

Defense Objective: Fleet Ambush

Navigation Objective: Superior Positions

CR90 Corvette B (39 points)

- SW 7 Ion Batteries ( 5 points)

CR90 Corvette B (39 points)

- SW 7 Ion Batteries ( 5 points)

CR90 Corvette B (39 points)

- SW 7 Ion Batteries ( 5 points)

CR90 Corvette B (39 points)

- SW 7 Ion Batteries ( 5 points)

CR90 Corvette B (39 points)

- SW 7 Ion Batteries ( 5 points)

CR90 Corvette B (39 points)

- SW 7 Ion Batteries ( 5 points)

[ flagship ] Nebulon-B Support Refit (51 points)

- General Rieekan ( 30 points)

- Salvation ( 7 points)

- Slaved Turrets ( 6 points)

1 Han Solo ( 26 points)

Fleet created with Armada Warlords

Tactics: Activate after the Clonisher. Heck, do it twice! Now Activate before the Clonisher! For best results (and maximum tears from Screed's stupid bionic eye): NK90 --> Salvation --> Han Solo --> Han Solo --> Salvation [Demolisher allowed to act again here.]

Threat Range: Like it matters. ACTIVATION ABUSE

Threat Magnitude: 8-10 Reds; 4 Blues; (2 Blue/2 Black Non-Bomber)

Vulnerability to Demolisher Double Tap: Nah

Downside: Rhymerballs or Ackbar probably ruin you.

This works. The all-CR90B version of this is what I beat him with. I also just got 3/14 with that list in a SC yesterday. As an aside: turns out its counter is neither Ackbar (9-1 yesterday) nor Rhymer ball (8-2), but ******* MC30 spam. Ugh...

@DUR: If you pick Fleet Ambush, 1 of your "forward" ships is fairly likely to die turn 1 to a 5-black alpha strike. Especially given that only your Glad actually has a redirect.

@Norsehound: How does the Demolisher get through the ablative CR90s before the Clon-player starts losing Raiders? It sounds like a joke, but the Demolisher has to move 3rd-last (or earlier), and it'll be hard to fit it between six tube-zombies.

@Trizzo and Madag: Please don't argue like this. This is descending into insults and hostility.

Jek Porkins Commemorative B(BQ)-Wing List aka "I Can Hold It Together!"

Faction: Rebel Alliance

Points: 398/400

Commander: General Dodonna

Assault Objective: Advanced Gunnery

Defense Objective: Contested Outpost

Navigation Objective: Minefields

MC80 Assault Cruiser (114 points) -- The "Chin"

- Defiance ( 5 points)

- Lando Callriassian ( 4 points)

- Advanced Projectors ( 6 points)

- Electronic Countermeasures ( 7 points)

- XI7 Turbolasers ( 6 points)

[ flagship ] MC80 Command Cruiser (106 points) The "Fist"

- General Dodonna ( 20 points)

- Independence ( 8 points)

- Adar Tallon ( 10 points)

- Boosted Comms ( 4 points)

- Electronic Countermeasures ( 7 points)

4 B-Wing Squadrons ( 56 points)

2 X-Wing Squadrons ( 26 points)

1 Jan Ors ( 19 points)

Fleet created with Armada Warlords

Tactics: The "Chin" should survive a full triple-tap (APs mean a total of 23 damage to die; Lando = Brace 2.0). The "Fist" then aims to hit back. If the Clon-player gets too cutsey with not engaging, you can start killing RDRs with your B's. Probably. Maybe.

I like the Imperial Squadron list better. DUR's might work better, too. I dunno!

Not enough B-wings, you're very unlikely to get him down before he gets in your face and wrecks it. I really like this idea, though, and kind of want to try iterating on it a bit...