The weirdness between the two scales vexes me sometimes. I generally have a 'rule' of sorts that personal scale weapons can't hurt vehicles, and vehicle or ship weapons generally can't aim at moving human-sized targets.

Sometimes I let it happen if it makes sense. Someone with a missile tube could take out a landspeeder or bike, say, maybe put a dent in a scout walker. And a squad of stormtroopers firing at your stationary X-Wing for a minute or so might trash it

And by and large, TIEs and ATATs either fire at other craft, stationary weapon turrets or buildings, not fast-moving, hard-to-target individuals. Normally I have vehicles 'strafe' an area and allow the PCs to get out of the way, maybe with some damage for being caught at the edge of the blast.

But yeah, vehicle combat in general is a pain in the FFG game, and yet as Desslok says, I'm in no real mood to make it much more complicated.

Personal scale I just multiply HT by 10 and vehicle armor by 10 and any personal scale damage past the armor gets subtracted from the personal scale HT.

Any damage past the personal scale armor can cause a vehicle crit. A heavy crew served weapon like a HRB will make hash of a landspeeder or any armor 1 vehicle pretty quick, and with a good roll and a critical can disable an armor 2 vehicle.

I just don't need it more complicated then that.

Beyond that, should personal scale weapons be a real threat to armor 3 vehicles? It begs the question why build them at all if a guy with a rifle can waffle them?

Thanks for the link! I really like the d6 Star Wars, I played it a lot in the 80's. I find it a great game, although as with the FFG SW, the toughness based soak mechanic annoyed me greatly. Some new games based in D6, like First Contact x-corops has somehow improved in this aspect.

I will give this a read.

Personal scale I just multiply HT by 10 and vehicle armor by 10 and any personal scale damage past the armor gets subtracted from the personal scale HT.

Any damage past the personal scale armor can cause a vehicle crit. A heavy crew served weapon like a HRB will make hash of a landspeeder or any armor 1 vehicle pretty quick, and with a good roll and a critical can disable an armor 2 vehicle.

I just don't need it more complicated then that.

Beyond that, should personal scale weapons be a real threat to armor 3 vehicles? It begs the question why build them at all if a guy with a rifle can waffle them?

Personal scale I just multiply HT by 10 and vehicle armor by 10 and any personal scale damage past the armor gets subtracted from the personal scale HT.

Any damage past the personal scale armor can cause a vehicle crit. A heavy crew served weapon like a HRB will make hash of a landspeeder or any armor 1 vehicle pretty quick, and with a good roll and a critical can disable an armor 2 vehicle.

I just don't need it more complicated then that.

Beyond that, should personal scale weapons be a real threat to armor 3 vehicles? It begs the question why build them at all if a guy with a rifle can waffle them?

The description for the missile tube makes you think it might be useful against light vehicles, but, in the FFG system, it's not.

I would houserule that the Missile Tube is a Vehicle Scale Weapon and be done with it.

Personal scale I just multiply HT by 10 and vehicle armor by 10 and any personal scale damage past the armor gets subtracted from the personal scale HT.

Any damage past the personal scale armor can cause a vehicle crit. A heavy crew served weapon like a HRB will make hash of a landspeeder or any armor 1 vehicle pretty quick, and with a good roll and a critical can disable an armor 2 vehicle.

I just don't need it more complicated then that.

Beyond that, should personal scale weapons be a real threat to armor 3 vehicles? It begs the question why build them at all if a guy with a rifle can waffle them?

The description for the missile tube makes you think it might be useful against light vehicles, but, in the FFG system, it's not.

A successful strike with a missile tube can possibly inflict a critical hit on an armor 3 target, sounds good enough to me.

It'll be interesting to see how FFG handles a Jedi heavy game with our new campaign. 3/4th of the table is Force Users of some stripe or another. Do things skew out of balance when you hit 600+ points?

There is a thread or two here that talks about this and there are opposite feelings on the topic. IMHO, (based on our 800+ earned exp game) because the developers have made a concentrated effort to minimize dice pools, that at high exp games, the damage dice exceedingly out number defensive dice. And that in combat going first becomes exceeding more important.

I will also say that GMs and players will have to make a concentrated effort to diversify their characters. Just as an example, our Jedi Peace Keeper who has the Influence Power, rolls YYYYGBB+4xFD whenever they make a Leadership check. And yes the GM challenges us in different ways so we are not one trick ponies. Just trying to show that the game is not very efficient with large dice pools.

It'll be interesting to see how FFG handles a Jedi heavy game with our new campaign. 3/4th of the table is Force Users of some stripe or another. Do things skew out of balance when you hit 600+ points?

There is a thread or two here that talks about this and there are opposite feelings on the topic. IMHO, (based on our 800+ earned exp game) because the developers have made a concentrated effort to minimize dice pools, that at high exp games, the damage dice exceedingly out number defensive dice. And that in combat going first becomes exceeding more important.

I will also say that GMs and players will have to make a concentrated effort to diversify their characters. Just as an example, our Jedi Peace Keeper who has the Influence Power, rolls YYYYGBB+4xFD whenever they make a Leadership check. And yes the GM challenges us in different ways so we are not one trick ponies. Just trying to show that the game is not very efficient with large dice pools.

Going first is only useful if you can see/hit your opponent. Snipers off screen can make for great equalizers in an open battlefield, as can other things like tight corridors with traps like pop-up turrets with auto-fire blasters. Or, just evacuate the area of atmosphere...

Completely agree. And as such, combat can be that more deadlier, as not only does your combatant have more positive dice to roll than your defensive dice, but now you cannot see them as well.

And being complicated is pretty much the antithesis of this engine. That should be one of the prime goals of our house rules - K.I.S.S.

Hmmm, I'll go dig up my old book and re-read the scale rules tonight, refresh myself with them and see if I can brainstorm some ideas. . . .

What is the scaling system and could we graft it?

Well, roughly in a nutshell, there was a chart that ranged from Human to Vehicle to Starfighter to Capital Ship to Death Star scale, and that you threw out numbers above what you rolled when comparing two scales.

For example, if the TIE fighter shot at your Human sized person, they had a die cap of 4 (a number pulled out of the air since I don't remember the exact rules - but it will do for an example). Lets say that the GM rolls four dice and gets a 2, a 3 and two 6es. The 6s are turned into 4s, so instead of a total of 17, they'd have a total of 13.

As far as resisting, the reverse applied - the Human threw out everything they rolled on their strength above that cap. So my 4D wookiee rolls a 2, 2, 6, and a 1 he gets a 9 to resist whatever the TIE rolled.

Whoops - I forgot they overhauled the scaling system in one of the later editions. That was the original version I was thinking of (which was always more elegant in my book anyway).

So - and this is just brainstorming at work off the top of my head inbetween emails - for FFG, every step on the scale adds +5 fails to hit and adds +5 to the damage? Human vs TIE gets a +10, Human versus Capital gets a +15 and so on?

If I posted a transcript of the scale rules from the 2e, revised and expanded version, could somebody who's played it explain it in layman's terms? I want to see if I can hack out an adaption, even just for fun, but I've never played the system.

My group FINALLY ended a 15 YEAR (!!!) d6 campaign last July.

While I loved that system, 15 years of playing it was enough. I never want to see that system again.

Time to move on to a new system... hence FFG.

If I posted a transcript of the scale rules from the 2e, revised and expanded version, could somebody who's played it explain it in layman's terms? I want to see if I can hack out an adaption, even just for fun, but I've never played the system.

I could probably take a crack at it - mind you, I wouldn't want to do it from memory at work, but I can probably try and explain things.

My group FINALLY ended a 15 YEAR (!!!) d6 campaign last July.

While I loved that system, 15 years of playing it was enough. I never want to see that system again.

Time to move on to a new system... hence FFG.

If I posted a transcript of the scale rules from the 2e, revised and expanded version, could somebody who's played it explain it in layman's terms? I want to see if I can hack out an adaption, even just for fun, but I've never played the system.

I could probably take a crack at it - mind you, I wouldn't want to do it from memory at work, but I can probably try and explain things.

Here we go

The game uses "scales" to show the differences between different sizes and types of objects. You add or subtract dice to attack tolls, dodge rolls and damage rolls to show these differences.

The scales, from "lowest" to "highest," are character (and creature), speeder, walker, starfighter, capital and Death Star.

The scale modifiers reflect the differences between small, fragile targets (like characters) and large, tough targets (like Star Destroyers).

• Character: -
• Speeder: 2D
• Walker: 4D
• Starfighter: 6D
• Capital: 12D
• Death Star: 24D

When targets of the same scale are shooting at each other, ignore the modifiers; just roll attack dice, dodges, and damage die codes normally.

It's when things of a different scale are affecting each other that you use these rules.

• Apply the difference between the two scales: this is now called the "adjusted modifier."

Example: A landspeeder (speeder-scale) is firing at an AT-AT (walker-scale). The landspeeder has a modifier of 2D; the AT-AT has a modifier of 4D. The adjusted modifier is 2D.

Lower Against Higher: When a lower scale character or vehicle is shooting at a higher scale character or vehicle:

• The lower scale attacker gets to add the modifier to the attack roll. If the target makes a dodge (or vehicle dodge or starship dodge), it just rolls its maneuverability (and dodge skill).
• The higher scale target adds the modifier to the roll to resist damage; the lower scale weapon rolls damage normally.

Example: The landspeeder fires at the walker. The landspeeder's blaster cannon has a fire control of 2D and a damage of 3D+1. The walker has no maneuverability (0D) and a body strength of 6D.

The landspeeder gets to add the adjusted modifier of 2D to its roll to hit. If the landspeeder hits, the landspeeder rolls the cannon's normal damage of 3D+1. However, because the walker is a higher scale, it gets to add the adjusted modifier of 2D to its body strength of 6D: it rolls 8D to resist damage.

Higher Against Lower: When a higher scale character or vehicle is shooting at a lower scale character or vehicle:

• The higher scale attacker rolls its normal attack roll; the lower scale target adds the adjusted modifier to its dodge roll.
• The higher scale attacker adds the adjusted modifier to its damage roll.

Example: Assuming the walker survived the blast, the walker's commander decides to return fore.

When the walker fires, it uses its fire control normally. The landspeeder, because it is a lower scale vehicle, adds the adjusted modifier of 2D to its maneuverability to dodge the attack.

If the walker hits with its blast, the walker adds the adjusted modifier of 2D to its normal weapon damage. The landspeeder only rolls its normal body strength to resist damage.