quad TLT really shouldn't be an issue. I had pre-chips redline rolling around with 4 crack squads just blowing through PS 2 before it could ever hope to get a shot off

you need chips to get through lucky bull, like Poe rolling ridiculously good greens

between that and Glaive Squadrons threatening to run right through both TLTs and Crackswarm with their x7 sexiness, I doubt anyone will be complaining about them for long

I lost to that squad in Round 2 this past weekend. Was that you, or is that yet another popular netlist?

if you have tractor beams, the potential to move someone to where they either put someone on a rock so they can't shoot or move them to where they don't have arc on the person they have TLed.

Or, depending on what they have, you can just push/pull them into the wrong range so they can't fire with their ordnance, even if that means pulling them in close. Then you can make the fight about K-Turns, and that is squarely on the Defender's turf.

Question: Do you play in SE Michigan? Someone with a 40 point Redline and 4x Crack Squadron did pretty well at a Sunday Store Championship at Gamer's Gauntlet.

Yeah, I was there last Sunday. Did I play against you? For some reason I thought you might be around here too...

quad TLT really shouldn't be an issue. I had pre-chips redline rolling around with 4 crack squads just blowing through PS 2 before it could ever hope to get a shot off

you need chips to get through lucky bull, like Poe rolling ridiculously good greens

between that and Glaive Squadrons threatening to run right through both TLTs and Crackswarm with their x7 sexiness, I doubt anyone will be complaining about them for long

I lost to that squad in Round 2 this past weekend. Was that you, or is that yet another popular netlist?

if you have tractor beams, the potential to move someone to where they either put someone on a rock so they can't shoot or move them to where they don't have arc on the person they have TLed.

Or, depending on what they have, you can just push/pull them into the wrong range so they can't fire with their ordnance, even if that means pulling them in close. Then you can make the fight about K-Turns, and that is squarely on the Defender's turf.

Question: Do you play in SE Michigan? Someone with a 40 point Redline and 4x Crack Squadron did pretty well at a Sunday Store Championship at Gamer's Gauntlet.

Yeah, I was there last Sunday. Did I play against you? For some reason I thought you might be around here too...

First round I got the bye.

Second round I faced someone with a Phantom, Omega Leader, and Palp Shuttle. Killed the Phantom round 3-4 and then my opponent's Omega Leader ate two consecutive Proton Bombs from VI Boba.

3rd round I faced the 40 point Redline and 4 Crack Squadrons and just barely lost to it. It ended with Boba with a weapons failure on one health vs. a one health TIE that had already spent its Crackshot. It was close.

4th round I faced the quad TLT guy. Pulled out all the stops, checked his damage deck before the game, denied him a shot when he measured with one Y-Wing, measured with another, and then wanted to fire with the first one, and played it pretty well. But just not enough.

Placed 11th? I think. I had pretty good MoV but that loss against the redline squad was my downfall. Had I won that I wouldn't have been matched against the TLT player next round. Someone that doesn't own any of the game and is just handed one easymode power squadron each time the meta changes and is content playing nothing but that one squad isn't the kind of person that gets on tilt very easily. Also, not much value in getting a quad TLT player on tilt anyways, what are they gonna do, screw up a 3 hard turn and focus and perpetually rolling 3 dice at you?

Placed 11th? I think. I had pretty good MoV but that loss against the redline squad was my downfall. Had I won that I wouldn't have been matched against the TLT player next round. Someone that doesn't own any of the game and is just handed one easymode power squadron each time the meta changes and is content playing nothing but that one squad isn't the kind of person that gets on tilt very easily. Also, not much value in getting a quad TLT player on tilt anyways, what are they gonna do, screw up a 3 hard turn and focus and perpetually rolling 3 dice at you?

https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/204019-first-store-championship-did-alright-had-lots-of-fun/#entry2076286

Oh man, I so very, very, very desperately wish I'd been the one to fight the Quad TLT guy. I wanted him first round, but went up against a Boba/Oicunn build first. I feel like I could have utterly ripped him to pieces. I had a sort of "trial run" in round 3, I killed 1 B-Wing in the first round, and the second B-Wing in the second round, and in both cases still had one ship left over to fire at someone else so it didn't even require the focus of my entire squad. When I made this squad I was thinking that it would be fun to fly, and also do really well against low agility ships. Considering how much people talk about TLTs and Y-Wings and Stresshogs, I thought/hoped I'd encounter more of them.

Not only do you need to nerf TLT, you also need to nerf the "no upper limit" stress on Tactician and the R5 stress mech. Wait till tractor beams land. Why have movement dials at all when 80 percent of all lists use turrets (mostly TLTs) and 25 percent of them can stress you without upper limit, and then tractor beams can plop you right down on an asteroid so you get no shot this turn, and next turn you have to roll for damage and lose your action.

If this is the game you're happy with, I'm glad I only play on Vassal...

It would be wonderful if you actually did quit.

Placed 11th? I think. I had pretty good MoV but that loss against the redline squad was my downfall. Had I won that I wouldn't have been matched against the TLT player next round. Someone that doesn't own any of the game and is just handed one easymode power squadron each time the meta changes and is content playing nothing but that one squad isn't the kind of person that gets on tilt very easily. Also, not much value in getting a quad TLT player on tilt anyways, what are they gonna do, screw up a 3 hard turn and focus and perpetually rolling 3 dice at you?

https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/204019-first-store-championship-did-alright-had-lots-of-fun/#entry2076286

Oh man, I so very, very, very desperately wish I'd been the one to fight the Quad TLT guy. I wanted him first round, but went up against a Boba/Oicunn build first. I feel like I could have utterly ripped him to pieces. I had a sort of "trial run" in round 3, I killed 1 B-Wing in the first round, and the second B-Wing in the second round, and in both cases still had one ship left over to fire at someone else so it didn't even require the focus of my entire squad. When I made this squad I was thinking that it would be fun to fly, and also do really well against low agility ships. Considering how much people talk about TLTs and Y-Wings and Stresshogs, I thought/hoped I'd encounter more of them.

I had played against his squadron a few times before. Redline is scary but health-wise is only a B-Wing with one more health. The times I had played against it before I tried going for TIE Fighter kills and lost everytime. This time I burned down Redline and it worked pretty much. I flew very poorly in the end game and that screwed me, there was a range 1 that I boosted out of in order to dodge an arc for a free shot that missed instead of just going for the PS kill at range 1, pretty sure it would have been double modified also.

The mid game was Boba vs. 4 TIEs that had spent Craclshot already. Some clutch bombs were pulled off including one there measured from the bomb nubs it was just barely in.

Good thing about the build is that I've improved it. Ysanne is in the build now which would have helped a ton, and I have a 3rd bomb now. Sometimes I run out of bombs with my usual squad and find myself in great spots late game to use a third. Not anymore lol. Conner Net, Seismic, Proton Bomb.

https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/204026-i-actually-have-a-viable-imperial-boba-list-sequel-thread-now-with-andrasta-variant/

First round I got the bye.

Second round I faced someone with a Phantom, Omega Leader, and Palp Shuttle. Killed the Phantom round 3-4 and then my opponent's Omega Leader ate two consecutive Proton Bombs from VI Boba.

3rd round I faced the 40 point Redline and 4 Crack Squadrons and just barely lost to it. It ended with Boba with a weapons failure on one health vs. a one health TIE that had already spent its Crackshot. It was close.

4th round I faced the quad TLT guy. Pulled out all the stops, checked his damage deck before the game, denied him a shot when he measured with one Y-Wing, measured with another, and then wanted to fire with the first one, and played it pretty well. But just not enough.

Placed 11th? I think. I had pretty good MoV but that loss against the redline squad was my downfall. Had I won that I wouldn't have been matched against the TLT player next round. Someone that doesn't own any of the game and is just handed one easymode power squadron each time the meta changes and is content playing nothing but that one squad isn't the kind of person that gets on tilt very easily. Also, not much value in getting a quad TLT player on tilt anyways, what are they gonna do, screw up a 3 hard turn and focus and perpetually rolling 3 dice at you?

Wow dude, I don't consider myself a casual player at all, I play in way more tournaments than i do "for fun" games and I care about winning alot and get alot of joy out of competition and I enjoy alot of success. But trying get people on tilt and being like umm no you measured over there so I'm gonna deny you shots is absolutely low. I have some good friends in Michigan who are great players and I get out there to play with them and I'm so glad you're not in that area. You must be an awfully sad mailman...

Yeah, I'm not particularly eager to travel out east...

First round I got the bye.

Second round I faced someone with a Phantom, Omega Leader, and Palp Shuttle. Killed the Phantom round 3-4 and then my opponent's Omega Leader ate two consecutive Proton Bombs from VI Boba.

3rd round I faced the 40 point Redline and 4 Crack Squadrons and just barely lost to it. It ended with Boba with a weapons failure on one health vs. a one health TIE that had already spent its Crackshot. It was close.

4th round I faced the quad TLT guy. Pulled out all the stops, checked his damage deck before the game, denied him a shot when he measured with one Y-Wing, measured with another, and then wanted to fire with the first one, and played it pretty well. But just not enough.

Placed 11th? I think. I had pretty good MoV but that loss against the redline squad was my downfall. Had I won that I wouldn't have been matched against the TLT player next round. Someone that doesn't own any of the game and is just handed one easymode power squadron each time the meta changes and is content playing nothing but that one squad isn't the kind of person that gets on tilt very easily. Also, not much value in getting a quad TLT player on tilt anyways, what are they gonna do, screw up a 3 hard turn and focus and perpetually rolling 3 dice at you?

Wow dude, I don't consider myself a casual player at all, I play in way more tournaments than i do "for fun" games and I care about winning alot and get alot of joy out of competition and I enjoy alot of success. But trying get people on tilt and being like umm no you measured over there so I'm gonna deny you shots is absolutely low. I have some good friends in Michigan who are great players and I get out there to play with them and I'm so glad you're not in that area. You must be an awfully sad mailman...

My opponent activated a ship by measuring range, then he activated another by measuring range and attacking with it. The first ship's time to fire was missed and I do not have to consent to allowing a missed opportunity, players are expected to play optimally.

He's already won a Store Championship with it.

Another player did this to me and was playing 40 point Redline and 4 Crack Squadrons. I just told him he couldn't do it and let him fire. Because he has good taste.

Also yes, I am an awfully sad mail man.

Not sure how they're going to errata TLT. It does one thing and one thing only and there's no way of changing it without effectively ruining it.

I can only think of rewording the title to the limitations set by the Defender title and add a max cost to the turret you may use, thereby nerfing the stresshog by reducing its range band.

I think the stress hog least of all needs a nerf. Every squad you'll face currently has 1 or 2 indestructible, hyper action economy Acewing ships in it and the stress hog is something that can actually deal with those. Please no.

The Grandmaster himself told that a stresshog would be an auto-include in his lists. We want to avoid auto-includes.

It would be better if the stressbot would be 'Once per round...' only.

Once per round would just mean aces would continue to dominate with impunity, like during the Phantom Era.

Imperial players will not be happy until all possible counters to a 3 ace list are beefed into uselessness.

Imperial players will not be happy until all possible counters to a 3 ace list are beefed into uselessness.

That is a bit silly, no, we'd be perfectly happy if the stresshog simply required skills to use/activate.

Imperial players will not be happy until all possible counters to a 3 ace list are beefed into uselessness.

That is a bit silly, no, we'd be perfectly happy if the stresshog simply required skills to use/activate.

It is an arclocked Y-Wing. Aces have all the tools to avoid it. It takes quite a bit of skill to position the Y-Wing, without any post movement repositioning, in a way that can't be avoided and most of the time that isn't even possible.

Aces have all the tools to avoid it.

I've flown with it, and against it, a lot. And barring Yorr, they don't.

i.e. Never had any issues with it being arc-locked as you can happily deploy it on a side, and even self-bump all day long to stall/keep arc. You can even run it across rocks as you won't get an action anyway...

And when it inevitably has a shot that ace is toast. It is a force multiplier that requires very little effort to use well.

As in, it is balanced in a vacuum, but too strong for its point cost in a 100pt dogfight.

I have to disagree there, never had a problem getting my ace out of there - granted I don't run pure ace lists because they are lacking in general. If you build a list that is easily countered don't complain when you run into the counter. Helps a whole bunch when there is a threat that doesn't care about the Hog swinging in from the side and wrecking the tunnel-vision fool.

So by following that logic,

Don't fly the falcon as there might be lists out there with too many dice?

Don't fly Phantoms when PS 10s are abound?

Don't fly X when Y.

etc.

That is tunnel-vision right there good Sir.

What the stresshog does is it shuts ANY ship down, without effort as it deals not one, but two stress per turn.

You don't even need to hit with your attack. you just need to have your target in arc (which is easy to do).

It also breaks another core rule which is one attack per ship. Albeit they will be unmodified attacks.

A stresshog should only stress you twice at best. If a sluggish Ywing with 4 stress can get you in arc more than 2 times before you're past it's arc, something wrong with your flying. My Boba/Bossk usually gets the stress hog in the 3rd round and only Bossk has 2 stress, with one relieved from the 3rd round bump into the Ywing.

So by following that logic,

Don't fly the falcon as there might be lists out there with too many dice?

Don't fly Phantoms when PS 10s are abound?

Don't fly X when Y.

etc.

That is tunnel-vision right there good Sir.

What the stresshog does is it shuts ANY ship down, without effort as it deals not one, but two stress per turn.

You don't even need to hit with your attack. you just need to have your target in arc (which is easy to do).

It also breaks another core rule which is one attack per ship. Albeit they will be unmodified attacks.

Wrong. What I am saying is don't pair Han with an overloaded Keyan Farlander but rather with something nimble that offsets his weak spots. You know, actually build a smart list!

So by following that logic,

Don't fly the falcon as there might be lists out there with too many dice?

Don't fly Phantoms when PS 10s are abound?

Don't fly X when Y.

etc.

That is tunnel-vision right there good Sir.

What the stresshog does is it shuts ANY ship down, without effort as it deals not one, but two stress per turn.

You don't even need to hit with your attack. you just need to have your target in arc (which is easy to do).

It also breaks another core rule which is one attack per ship. Albeit they will be unmodified attacks.

Wrong. What I am saying is don't pair Han with an overloaded Keyan Farlander but rather with something nimble that offsets his weak spots. You know, actually build a smart list!

And when your "smart lists", and anyone else's, gets eaten alive by :

http://geordanr.github.io/xwing/?f=Rebel%20Alliance&d=v4!s!9:135,-1,-1,69:21:-1:;65:-1:-1:-1:;65:-1:-1:-1:;64:-1:-1:-1:;64:-1:-1:-1:;64:-1:-1:-1:;64:-1:-1:-1:&sn=Unnamed%20Squadron

ad infinitum?

Doesn't look all that scary, there are worse rebel lists out there. I think you need to relearn how to combat swarms if that is your greatest problem.

If everyone's list is getting eaten by that list, it's probably run by a pretty good player, and not much advice helps there.

Come down to NYC, where Palo aces are far more difficult to beat than some crummy easily dodged stresshog

3 Palp ace champions

3 different players

If everyone's list is getting eaten by that list, it's probably run by a pretty good player, and not much advice helps there.

Good or not, I've had no issues flying it, the real issue for the opponent here is the stresshog.

You could build similar lists using 4 ships, ala the one that won worlds, it is less forgiving, in exchange for an anti-ace & regenerating craft.

Take the hog out and the lists would crumble.

Keep it in and you have absolute control over the engagement for no downside.

If it was so good as you claim, it would have started to show up before now. I think people may be overestimating the effects of being stressed on ships that are not glass cannons.

So by following that logic,

Don't fly the falcon as there might be lists out there with too many dice?

Don't fly Phantoms when PS 10s are abound?

Don't fly X when Y.

etc.

That is tunnel-vision right there good Sir.

What the stresshog does is it shuts ANY ship down, without effort as it deals not one, but two stress per turn.

You don't even need to hit with your attack. you just need to have your target in arc (which is easy to do).

It also breaks another core rule which is one attack per ship. Albeit they will be unmodified attacks.

Wrong. What I am saying is don't pair Han with an overloaded Keyan Farlander but rather with something nimble that offsets his weak spots. You know, actually build a smart list!

And when your "smart lists", and anyone else's, gets eaten alive by :

http://geordanr.github.io/xwing/?f=Rebel%20Alliance&d=v4!s!9:135,-1,-1,69:21:-1:;65:-1:-1:-1:;65:-1:-1:-1:;64:-1:-1:-1:;64:-1:-1:-1:;64:-1:-1:-1:;64:-1:-1:-1:&sn=Unnamed%20Squadron

ad infinitum?

With 30 sec of thinking about it: Glittercrack brobots and Crackswarms will defeat that list 9/10 times without breaking a sweat. Many other lists will too, but it requires more thought than: point list at stresshog, blow it up before it shoots, laugh maniacally while poor 2 dice z-95s struggle with 3 green dice and getting stuff in arc for the rest of the game.

If it was so good as you claim, it would have started to show up before now.

It did, before Worlds, at Worlds, and still is.

I do not "claim" that it is good, I claim that it is in dire need of balancing.

Granted, the main topic here is TLTs, plural, not the Stresshog itself.