I can see where those that want to punish the player for trying to min/max the game. The key here is that the GM is punishing the player not the character for playing the game in a way that they don't agree with. This game is not adversarial, but cooperative and any tactics to punish the player do not belong. An Int 5 character is going to be next to useless in any sessions that deal with social or combat aspects. He'll be a bumbling intelligent person, but unable to interact with people in a normal way. It, also, depends upon the other stats that the character has. For him to invest so heavily into one stat that the others will obviously be lacking in.

Low Brawn and he won't be able to carry any gear.

Low Agility and he won't be able to avoid most things in combat or other situations that require Agility.

Low Cunning and he will be unable to think creatively, so any information he has is merely a recitation of his memorized knowledge.

Low Willpower and he's easily swayed by everyone to their side. A charismatic BBEG will easily sway the character to join him and betray his friends.

Low Presence and he'll have a hard time interacting with others in social situations. People may get the idea that he's a creep, weird, etc... He'd be tongue twisted around others and frequently babble on while trying to pass the information he knows to others.

All of the above is not punishing the player. It is punishing the character in the areas they lack. A player that tries to go around the obvious dump stat to act normally is when the GM says, "No this is how your character acts because they have a 1 in Presence."

So, in combat, really all he has is Harm, which will always give him Conflict, often require him to spend strain and flip a destiny point, and only does 5 damage.

And with the Heal power, it's easy enough to say that the Force guides him through human and alien physiology.

Let me just ask, TGF, do you let the Lightsaber Hamster have both at the same time?

As I understood, by RAW only light-siders get Heal and only dark-siders get Harm.

(Let me also stress I use a vastly-simplified Morality rule that does allow this, but only one power at a time... basically like 'Stance' in the WH FRP game... I just wanted to know how other people played it...)

Actually, RAW is that only light-siders can use Heal, while anyone can use Harm. Which is extra troubling if our hamster gets into a lot of fights, because if he falls to the Dark Side, he loses Heal altogether. Taking a hefty conflict hit is probably fine for most characters, but this guy would be gaining 1 conflict minimum for each attack. He can't shoot or swing for squat with those characteristics at 1, and even his other Force options are limited, since his Willpower is likely 2. I hope for his sake that the GM offers plenty of ways to avoid combat.

Thinking about it, now I really want to see a fully corrupted, dark-side space hamster. Might as well name him Boo and give him a heavily tattooed Human Marauder companion.

So, in combat, really all he has is Harm, which will always give him Conflict, often require him to spend strain and flip a destiny point, and only does 5 damage.

And with the Heal power, it's easy enough to say that the Force guides him through human and alien physiology.

Let me just ask, TGF, do you let the Lightsaber Hamster have both at the same time?

As I understood, by RAW only light-siders get Heal and only dark-siders get Harm.

(Let me also stress I use a vastly-simplified Morality rule that does allow this, but only one power at a time... basically like 'Stance' in the WH FRP game... I just wanted to know how other people played it...)

Actually, RAW is that only light-siders can use Heal, while anyone can use Harm. Which is extra troubling if our hamster gets into a lot of fights, because if he falls to the Dark Side, he loses Heal altogether. Taking a hefty conflict hit is probably fine for most characters, but this guy would be gaining 1 conflict minimum for each attack. He can't shoot or swing for squat with those characteristics at 1, and even his other Force options are limited, since his Willpower is likely 2. I hope for his sake that the GM offers plenty of ways to avoid combat.

Thinking about it, now I really want to see a fully corrupted, dark-side space hamster. Might as well name him Boo and give him a heavily tattooed Human Marauder companion.

Have your GM look at my post on how to handle an Int 5 character. This will affect the player significantly since if he does stuff that is physical like repairing a ship etc... he'd get set back dice for his low Agility. Yes, he will know how to fix the ship, but lacks the requisite Agility/Brawn to move around in the tight spaces and lug any ship part around. If he suffers from low Willpower than he can easily be swayed against the group and suffers from set back dice in opposed rolls to social skills as Discipline is the default skill to use to resist.

After a few sessions of the character being hampered to the point that he's nothing more than a walking encyclopedia he'll be wanting a more balanced character. A 1 in any stat means Below Average as 2 in the system is Average.

I've been thinking about this upgrade or not thing and how to make it apply to everyone, while still making it more potent for the guy with 5 greens versus his friend with 2 yellows and 1 green.

The books' tables repeatedly equate 3 threat to a despair. So either have three uncanceled threats equate a despair result, or have a system in place where if a character tries a thing and gets three uncanceled threats, their next roll for the same thing that encounter is then upgraded to reflect the GM spending the threats.

That having been said, I don't think I'd do this myself. I'd rather stare down the player and declare "Practice makes perfect, and the universe demands perfection," as I flip a point and upgrade that business.

After a few sessions of the character being hampered to the point that he's nothing more than a walking encyclopedia he'll be wanting a more balanced character. A 1 in any stat means Below Average as 2 in the system is Average.

And why would you want to do that? There's nothing wrong with a lopsided character. If there's a problem in OP's game, it's because the player, not the character, is being obnoxious and trying to get more than he should. Building such a lopsided character brings its own problems, the GM doesn't need to start throwing arbitrary difficulty upgrades and setback dice at him. "Oh, so you suck at combat, social encounters and stealth, but you're good at anything involving a sharp mind? Well now you suck at that, too!"

The main trouble such a character introduces is when he horns in on other people's territory. If someone's playing a balanced mechanic with a mix of Intellect and Brawn, it's understandable that he would get annoyed that a lucky roll on the Smart Guy's part outshines his character's training. The combat medic is allowed to be a little miffed when Captain Booksmart steps up to the injured character and restores his vitality with a touch. But these problems can be mitigated by two things.

First, have a conversation with the player. This is a player problem, not a character problem. If the player gives other folks a chance to shine, everyone will feel better. And giving people a chance to shine won't be too tough, since it will happen every time there's a fight, a social encounter, or a break-in to a secure Imperial base.

Second, let the Smart Guy help the folks with the skills. If the 3 Skill, 2 Intellect mechanic is banging away at the hyperdrive while TIE fighters are blasting at the ship, he's going to be delighted to have Mr. Smartypants show up. Suddenly, instead of rolling 2 yellows and a green, they're rolling 3 yellow and 2 green, and they're makin' that jump to lightspeed with no problem.

So yes, the player may well decide that he should reroll his character and balance him out a little more. And maybe he needs to adjust his attitude and expectations. But there's nothing overpowered about this character. He's going to be great at a few Intellect-based skills. He's going to be decent at anything Intellect based, even without training. Big friggin' deal. He's not a combat monster by any stretch. He has the only Force Power that relies on Intellect, and it does 5 damage, without the chance of doing more unless he invests in Strength upgrades and manages to get more Force pips. Oh yeah, and if he hurts people with it, it give him conflict every time.

The books' tables repeatedly equate 3 threat to a despair.

No they don't. Despairs have a separate entry that (theoretically) worse than 3 Threat. You can use a Despair in place of 3 (or less) Threat, but by RAW you can't use 3 Threat as a Despair.

The books' tables repeatedly equate 3 threat to a despair.

No they don't. Despairs have a separate entry that (theoretically) worse than 3 Threat. You can use a Despair in place of 3 (or less) Threat, but by RAW you can't use 3 Threat as a Despair.

The books' tables repeatedly equate 3 threat to a despair.

No they don't. Despairs have a separate entry that (theoretically) worse than 3 Threat. You can use a Despair in place of 3 (or less) Threat, but by RAW you can't use 3 Threat as a Despair.

Not entirely true. Yes there are things listed that only despair can do but go look at litterally any adventure module and they have multiple entries where it has checks that say "if the player rolls 3 threat or a despair" showing they're treated roughly equivalent quite often. The difference being it only takes 1 die to roll a despair whilst it takes at minimum 2 to roll 3 threat keeping that edge of deadlieness that a challenge dice brings. It's what I was trying to hit on earlier you don't need challenge dice to have horrible despair like effects occur, it just makes them more probable.

Tables also equate 1 Despair to 2 Threat a lot. What makes Despair truly unique and terrifying, is that it happens even if you rolled a great roll with plenty Advantage to spare. Threat would have been just nullified in that case.

First welcome to the game!

Now my thoughts:

Several folks have mentioned this and I wanted to throw my motivator into the ring as well.

Setback dice.

Are a core mechanic that are frequently not used. Use them.

GM: Ouch, IMPORTANT NPC has a brain hemorrage because of the your old rusty merchant ship taking a hit and him standing by exploding plasma conduit...the fire is out but choking smoke is all around you. The ship rocks under another hit...and the poor fellow's getting awfully pale...

Brainiac PC: Hey my guy knows how to perform brain surgery...because of his 5 int plus talents.

GM: Great you know the base difficulty is (whatever you assign). Now...

You know you need a sterile environment.....which you don't have. Setback die.

You know you need proper tools....which you don't have. Setback die.

You know this procedure requires a skilled and highly dextrous assistant, which you don't have. Setback die.

The ship is shaking and jerking all over the place because of taking and avoiding enemy fire. Setback die.

There's heavy smoke which keeps you coughing while trying to perform a delicate procedure. Setback die.

Oh and the lighting keeps going out making it difficult to see. Setback die.

Etc...

You don't have to use all of them (I probably wouldn't)...but that's just a sample of what the core rules expect. It's no different than a bounty hunter taking a shot...on a rocking boat, at night, in a snow storm, etc...none of these factors adjust the base difficulty, what they are supposed to do is add setback dice. Granted YMMV and it is your game so if you wish to customize it is your call...

I'd throw in a few social challenges as well. Hopefully the other PCs are a bit more diverse.

For example knowing that species X considers certain phrases to be mortal insults is not the same as say..speaking their language. Or perhaps the Glitterharmoic bugs of Darelstim Reaches (made up) speak via resonant refraction of light off of their wings, wings that cannot be simulated via technology due to a quirk of their quantum structure. Great you know that....but that doesn't mean you have their wings to communicate with.

Anyway good luck and happy gming!

Heal/Harm is a good power, but I wouldn't hit him with a combat check, even against a Nemesis in most cases. The reason for combat checks or opposed Discipline checks is that your big bad guys need a way to defend themselves from big damage dumps or control effects. Being Immobilized by Bind, being thrown out a window by Move, and so on. Harm never mentions having to touch your enemy, it doesn't do much damage, and it doesn't really have much in the way of control effects. Also, where it does have an opposed roll, it's Medicine vs. Resilience, and if you're making the power have an attack roll, every success should deal another point of damage. That's just going to make Harm nastier.

Actually, the rules state that against a Nemesis or plot relevant NPC it automatically happens. Of course, GM's have discretion. It doesn't have to be a melee check, it can be opposed Discipline checks. And the rule says when against a Force user, the Force user defending can use Discipline. Making it a Medicine vs. Discipline check. Which is interesting.

And yes, go read the heal/harm power. Pg. 293 it says a touch. They can upgrade it so it's not touch. But to start, it's touch.

So, basically, he's playing this guy only without any knowledge and add in some some force powers.

Like others have said, don't punish him for the character. Talk to him about his attitude and let him know that he's more than welcome to talk to you about rules outside of the game but while playing your ruling stands and you won't tolerate him trying to argue the rules.

Also use a wide variety of checks that everyone has to contribute on. If done right a one trick pony can add to the story with their inability to contribute. If the player insists on bogart-ing all of the intelligence challenges try to arrange it so they're stuck with something else.

If the player doesn't want to participate on the RP side, don't try to force them. Try using a carrot. Give the other players boost dice for great descriptions or good role playing. Once he sees the others getting what he craves (bonuses that make his character better) he'll start doing it too. For the wrong reasons, but hopefully with time he'll come around.

I know we don't allow PCs without skill ranks in a skill to bump a green to a yellow by spending a destiny point, this reflects any lack of knowledge in a skill, off-sets this issue slightly (the hard focused PC). We still allow the GM to spend destiny however.

Next, a PC or NPC can't remove more setback dice than the average of their Stat and associated skill rounded up. There is no limit to gained boost dice. An NPC can add their Adversary rank to this number. When multiple characters work together use the average of Stat and skill rank combined from the PCS (say a Cunning 3 from PC 1 and a Survival 4 from PC 2) round up and add 1.

Minions and other NPCs work similar, in that depending on the task, can remove 1 additional setback die from the situation per Minion/NPC member on task after the first. Teamwork, teamwork, teamwork; how many Shipjackers does it take to remote shutdown the ships systems and can the lone PC slicer keep up? Drat the beverage machine in the galley is spraying fluids all over the floor, get a mop.

Now this might seem ruthless

Typically you can take care of these issues in game via roleplaying situations.

Overall are most of the PCs who use Force powers trying to stay on the Light side of things?

Remember, PCs will get a reputation amongst the NPCs they interact with, and those they haven't even met yet. I am not talking about just the bad folks the PCs interact with. The friendly and neutral 3rd party groups the PCs will run into may have prior knowledge of the groups actions. A camera and or microphone and even some 3rd party folks may be privy to or even publicly aware of actions by the group and individuals of said group. Some droids have built in recording devices as do many bounty hunters to record their actions or to analyze a future targets actions.

So, PC uses Harm on whatever, that's not important, it's the fact that the PC used the Harm force power in the first place. This may draw the ire on future friendly NPCs who may not trust that PC and perhaps the group as a whole. Thus they may find themselves being blacklisted, greylisted or whatever the NPC feels is right for even dealing with the PC or pcs.

For the bad folks who have the PCs hotboxed, those who are smart, especially bounty hunters, military, hutts, those that can afford it, well those folks won't play till they've done their homework. Just like PCs scouting, researching or looking for information, NPCs will do and have to do the same thing.

Now I'm gonna layout some typical modifiers I use and the setback dice I assign. Always try to set the difficulty based on the perfect situation; right tools, tested new part, repair manual, right model, good light, not a cramped workspace, not during combat, not rushed for time, not in a zero Gravity or heavy gravity area(unless required for job or task). Just think of the best possible everything ready to go, like on a cooking show with everything prepped and ready to go, now time to prepare the meal.

Setback dice options and suggestions are a very weak area of the 3 core books, but having run and played over 150 RPGs I've had insight to these kind of things.

Generally these stack and can get pretty high, but PCs being PCs are quite resilient and creative in a good player's hands. (the social flavor setback dice can be 1 or 2 where those options were 1 or 2 for tasks such as for survival or mechanics, their your NPCs, how do they feel about what is at stake or what the deal is for?)

No skill ranks 1

Never worked with, done before, unfamiliar with item -> 1 for each of these conditions met. (social variants; never met, new to area, using interperer or partial language knowledge, no language/communication method would be (2) )

No tools 2 (no knowledge of customs or law)

Or

Improper tools 1 (partial customs or law knowledge)

Poor conditions 1 to 3 (these represent environmental (extreme cold/hot/zero gravity/etc), stress such as working under duress (combat, fatigue or lack of sleep, hunger, etc) and tight spaces, bouncy landspeeder going over very rough terrain. Rushed or not enough time. I hope you get the idea here. (social variants; wrong place, wrong time (early or late), stress/duress situations as above)

Inferior parts 1 (older model part to newer model system) or 2 ( this represents adapting say a shield generator part from one manufacturer to another) (social variants; wrong kind of token gift, bargaining chip, item not wanted by NPC)

Damaged part 1 (if the players don't look to see if it's damaged it's on them... (use this when PCs scavenge another broken/wrecked device, vehicle, Gun, light saber, etc) (Socially questionable items, stolen goods, illegal items, Inferior quality items for deal (not new or poorly made goods)

Used part 1 (tested) or

(use tested (above) or untested (below) whether or not they scavenge it or procure part from a reseller or steal it, etc) (PCs may get a used part that says "tested good" from watto, but he was lazy that day... Or the badfolks have reseller X sell players a bad/sabotaged part specifically to Bone the players). You smell burning coming from your ships restroom recycling system, what do you have your PCs do?

Used part 2 (untested)

(used items may be fine to some, but if not, 1 setback die might apply, I also used this area if the amount of items is too many or not enough for social situations)

Lando's guys were supposed to fix the hyperdrive...

Newer model part to older system retrofit 1 (this is similar to Inferior part) or 2 (way newer model part or way older system retrofit)

(Socially, this newer part converts to the old switcheroo, you said I'd get X for Y, what gives? This works both ways, PCs bring W and want Y, but the contact brings Z, and the contact still wants W. This area might apply to PCs bring W, contact brings Y and also wants X in addition. Again this could work both ways, 1 or 2 setback dice would apply)

Now in social situations, reputation can be a very big factor especially if the PCs dealings in the past have gone sour because a PC tried a Jedi mind trick and was caught, they smuggled weapons to a neutral ground, recording devices or whatever was bad for the previous situation(s); bribing local law, avoiding planetary taxes, messing up a cantina or killing/lethal violence when a simple fist fight would of sufficed. Criminals with no respect or honor can find doors closed to them when dealing with outlaw types, just as much as those who follow laws can in dealing with those same outlaws or pompous folks in power.

Just because one player wants his PC to be the face of the group doesn't mean the NPC(s) even want to talk or deal with that PC, and may in fact specifically want to deal with the hard headed warrior because they will keep their advantage when dealing with that PC. And if the FACE attempts to jump into the conversation, may take offense at such things, either ending negotiations or invitingly asking the warrior to accompany them to a private room to continue the conversation. Perhaps the NPC only wishes to hear about the warrior's adventures and will make up their mind based on whatever they are told by the warrior about what the flowers are for?

KSW

ps sorry so long

BTW, does anyone else have a list of setback/boost die modifiers they typically use? I'm gonna get mine typed up, the above is pretty much the first time I've laid them out, at least the setback dice and the bumps to the total. Setback and Boost dice are very important to making the threat of the universe weigh upon the PCs and thus the player's minds. My PC for example can remove like 3 setback dice from about 3 skill checks depending on the situation due to talents or equipment, and 1 or 2 of my skills get boost dice from talents or equipment.

As a GM, you could chat with a player of a hyper focused PC as has been suggested, or challenge that PC to deal with situations in areas the PC lacks solid ability score, skill ranks or talents which has also been mentioned, or in the case of my suggestion take control of a situation with a forward thinking NPC. All in all I like to take care of the "LESSON(S)" that player X needs in game or as close to in game as I can.

If you need to chat with a player and you know they typically get defensive or just outright offended at the suggestion of changing their PC, don't follow you typical conversation path. First empower the player, do not embolden them to a defensive path.

To do this in game, have an NPC/LEAD suggest that the next part of the adventure will take place where far more other skills will be needed than the areas of the hyper focused PC or imply that some things will be more important and that everyone may need to shore up a variety of areas, especially those the hyper focused PC lacks. Make it apparent, but in a neutral way that can apply to all players PCs. This leaves it up to every player to spend their allotted XP smartly in an informed manner. The players have just been passively empowered through their respective PCs in game to invest in skills, talents, gear, etc that will help their same PCs.

NOTE: A LEAD could be some form of clue or piece of information you provide to the PCs. Always provide PCs this information in at least 3 forms (note, I borrowed this wonderful 3 LEAD concept from another long time GM like myself). The 3 forms of LEADS should be provided to different PCs as well, this will allow for errors in recognition of importance, the possibility of a player's PC not even discovering the LEAD or just forgetting about it and just the chaos of the paths players have their PCs follow, etc. Also if the PCs need certain information to move an adventure forward, do not base finding the information on a chance dice roll. Have the information discovered or relayed to the PCs in some organic way; a contact, through a disturbance in the Force, a urgent news message on a vid-caster, stuck to the side of a passing droid, etc.

If a player is still dumbfounded why the hyper focused PC fell 1000's of meters to their death because they slipped while climbing a wet slimy vine during a Wookie Gathering Trial of the Sweet Sap Hunt, stare right back at them and state "Your PC recalls while plummeting that the long dead and Ancient Wookie Jedi Hertriccia had shown herself to all of the PCs in a dream vision while they gathered and drank the traditional fermented sweet sap, a view that seemed to look far down to the ground and far up in to the tall canopies of the very trees the sweet sap comes from. Then X's mind goes very cold as death pushes thoughts of life from X's body"

KSW