I'm running a mixed EotE/F&D game for three guys. And so far, they should be dead.

Their characters are alright, but they neglected to put many points into their skills, instead choosing to bump up their abilities and talents. Im running the module in the back of the EotE book, and oh man....

The PCs got into a fight in the cantina that left one Mook dead, two running, and the players with a few scuffs and scratches. After following a Tyrodian to the Mooks warehouse, the PCs force their way in, and start blazing away. In the ensuing, rather wild firefight, the Twi'lek thief is critically wounded, the Human bounty hunter takes a few hard shots, but is still standing, and the Zabrak jedi learns why its a bad idea to go hand-to-hand with someone using a vibroblade. So, at the end of their first real combat, they have one PC critical, one PC badly cut up but still mobile, and one with some pretty amazing blaster burns.

No skill points...mostly attribute points...almost no armor to speak of... They handled it with all the grace and efficiency of a one-legged man at a butt-kicking contest. And they're only just getting started.

Sounds reasonable to me.

Imo it's sensible to invest the lion-share of starting XP into Attributes, since there is no other way to raise them except for Cybernetics, wich are very expensive and hard to get, and the Dedication Talent, wich also takes a long time to get to.

Just seems more profitable in the long run.

Now, if they charge into a gangster warehouse completely unprepared that is entirely on them.

Also, I think it can be deceiving on how deadly the game actually is.

Most of the time you'll be probably knocked unconscious due to exceeding the wound threshold rather than being outright killed, unless maybe when you go up against a nasty Nemesis that can dish out nasty Crits.

Anyway, your team sounds pretty front loaded on the action, wich can be fun, would love to hear more in the future.

Definitely sounds like Samurai's with Cowboys & Indians in Space... Bravo, keep going. The players should count their lucky stars. I mean, Destiny Points

What exactly did you expect? You put heroes against mooks.

Iv had situations where one person was left unconcious with two critical injuries, the other was concious but lost an arm and an eye I mean, literally, he had two nasty injuries and one was an arm that he had to cut off later and replace with a cyberarm.

This was during the invasion of a small imperial base with about 20 guys, a few speeders vs a snow speeder battle and a giant construction droid armed with a minigun and industrial welder at the end (the boss?).

They all survived, they all got xp and kept fighting the bad guys.

Well, I haven't introduced destiny points to them as yet. Thats slated for the next session. I'm just shocked that they did so well, considering that they are running on attributes alone, in most cases. The bounty hunter has an agility of 4, but only one point in ranged weapons. They got through this on pure DFL. Makes me proud, in a way....

Whats going to be really scary is what happens when these guys start maturing and building their characters with plans and ideas in mind, rather than 'this looks cool...ill take this thingamabob.' mentality.

Well, I haven't introduced destiny points to them as yet. Thats slated for the next session. I'm just shocked that they did so well, considering that they are running on attributes alone, in most cases. The bounty hunter has an agility of 4, but only one point in ranged weapons. They got through this on pure DFL. Makes me proud, in a way....

Whats going to be really scary is what happens when these guys start maturing and building their characters with plans and ideas in mind, rather than 'this looks cool...ill take this thingamabob.' mentality.

For sure, when I first looked into all the talents more thoroughly, it became quickly apparent that there are some reaaally strong combinations.

Especially when you get deeper into multiple trees.

Also, you say only one point in ranged weapons, but with a agility score of 4 that is not at all a weak pool, by any strech, considering that most attack rolls at short and/or medium range have a difficulty of 2, on average.

If you're worried about player power already, then you probably want to get more creative to really make a tough time for them.

It's fun to experiment, especially when you don't want to throw ever stronger enemies at your players.

In most cases you can only raise a skill up to rank 2 at character creation, and in most cases you get 6 skills to rank 1 for free. That's actually pretty good starting out, so even if they didn't invest any XP in skills after the ones they get with their career and specializations, they can still come out pretty well rounded.

That said, I do suggest that players raise skills instead of picking up talents at the start. Most talents aren't really needed until the characters level and the difficulty of the sessions goes up.

Oh, no. Im not worried about power players at all. Im already pulling together some ideas for a Nemesis when the scoundrel and/or bounty hunter start getting too big for their britches. No matter how much of a bad ass you are, some Hutt, somewhere, has someone on the payroll who is better... And I'm debating an Inquisitor SWAT team when the Jedi finally gets outed. If nothing else, there is always the most difficult, most feared encounter of all that I could put the PCs through...a Formal Event. Hey, mention to a combat machine that they have to attend a black tie dinner, and watch em break out in a cold sweat.

The agility 4 and skill 1 isnt a weak pool, per se, but the PC doesn't have the chance to really gain advantages or triumphs or anything that would let him activate crits or special abilities on his weapons. He's a sledgehammer trying to do precision work, in a sense. A lot of the time, he was either firing at a target behind cover, or firing into combat to keep the Jedi from being turned in to zabrak bacon. The penalties from that kind of hurt him.

Next up for these guys....space combat. I sense another chance for these guys to ****** victory from the jaws of a situation shot completely to hell.

In most cases you can only raise a skill up to rank 2 at character creation, and in most cases you get 6 skills to rank 1 for free. That's actually pretty good starting out, so even if they didn't invest any XP in skills after the ones they get with their career and specializations, they can still come out pretty well rounded.

That said, I do suggest that players raise skills instead of picking up talents at the start. Most talents aren't really needed until the characters level and the difficulty of the sessions goes up.

Thats what they did, though. They bought pretty much the first tier of talents, and more than a couple on the second tier right away.

Oh, no. Im not worried about power players at all. Im already pulling together some ideas for a Nemesis when the scoundrel and/or bounty hunter start getting too big for their britches. No matter how much of a bad ass you are, some Hutt, somewhere, has someone on the payroll who is better... And I'm debating an Inquisitor SWAT team when the Jedi finally gets outed. If nothing else, there is always the most difficult, most feared encounter of all that I could put the PCs through...a Formal Event. Hey, mention to a combat machine that they have to attend a black tie dinner, and watch em break out in a cold sweat.

The agility 4 and skill 1 isnt a weak pool, per se, but the PC doesn't have the chance to really gain advantages or triumphs or anything that would let him activate crits or special abilities on his weapons. He's a sledgehammer trying to do precision work, in a sense. A lot of the time, he was either firing at a target behind cover, or firing into combat to keep the Jedi from being turned in to zabrak bacon. The penalties from that kind of hurt him.

Next up for these guys....space combat. I sense another chance for these guys to ****** victory from the jaws of a situation shot completely to hell.

Haha, social encounters are the best. My group is basically the polar opposite, 5 players, and only 1 of them is a fighter. They actually spend most of their time trying to circumvent conflicts in a non physical manner, wich so far worked very well for them and I'm quite impressed at how they did it at times.

Yeah, I didn't really think about penalties from cover and such for a moment, probably because we DO barely fight in our campaign.

But all of that will even out as your campaign progresses.

Space combat man, our first time was the stuff of movies, you're gonna have a blast, I'm sure.

Just because it isn't preferred, doesn't mean it can't still work(lol). Clearly they aren't hurting too bad in the combat department rolling with mostly rank 1 skills and a bunch of talents. Though you might want to suggest to them, that if they are still going to keep going in guns blazing they might want to pick up a medical droid, unless one of them is planning on investing in medicine.

I have an idea for a Drall character I might play sometime down the line when someone else GMs, and I plan to put all my XP, including the extra 10 from obligation on characteristics. End up looking like, Br: 1 Ag: 3 Int: 5 the rest 2s. I'll have no skills above rank 1 and I'll have no talents at the start.

With regards to game mechanics, having more dice helps give you more Successes than having a high skill that might help you have a lot of yellow dice.

Early on, this works to the players advantage since they can buy up their attributes and not spend points on much of anything else.

Later, this works to the players advantage, since they can slowly buy up the skills they find they are actually using, and get slowly better and better skilled over time, or split XP between skills and talents.

In my experience, there really are very few scenarios where it is better for the PCs to spend lots of points early on to buy up their skills as high as they can.

I mean, sure they can do that if they want, but with regards to the game mechanics that doesn’t really help them so much.

Not to mention that emphasizing characteristics over skills at character creation gives players a chance to get a feel for the system style before they have to figure out how to narrate a bunch of triumphs in their skill checks.

Is it true that characteristics can't be bought up with XP? And if true, doesn't this greatly encourage players to dump points into characteristics at character creation?

Is it true that characteristics can't be bought up with XP? And if true, doesn't this greatly encourage players to dump points into characteristics at character creation?

Yes, and yes.

That is pretty much the point, and also prevents power creep, wich the game already suffers from when you get to very high XP levels.

Playing a 6/6/6/6/6/6 character wouldn't be very fun, at least for me.

And the groups staggering luck holds. With some fancy flying, the group got into the cavern where Dobah had set up shop, without being seen. The trio skulked onto the ship, but then someone looked out a window and spotted the PC's ship, and raised the alarm. Crap.
While three pirate mooks ran off to get some bigger weapons, the players put the drop on the first mate, but not before the first mate brained the jedi wannabe with a club. Fancy footwork managed to keep the jedi-in-training in the fight, while the bounty hunter pulled some amazing two-gun mojo on the returning mooks, dropping two of the minions. The twi'lek scoundrel whipped off a fast shot, failing to drop the third mook, but shooting the minions blaster carbine out of his hand.
At this point, Dobah himself started wading towards the freewheeling horseplay. The group put the third mook down, then turned their attention to the rather honked-off Dobah. The group also noticed a Rodian standing in a doorway...hand near his blaster, but not drawing. Dobah stomped closer while the bounty hunter whipped his heavy blaster rifle into play. Everyone remember the part from 'Predator', where Mac picks up Blain's mini gun and starts blazing away into the forest? Yup...that was the bounty hunter.
Dobahs Adversary 2 gave the PC's fits, and the gang had used all their light side points, earlier. And then the Jedi-if-he-survives did something that everyone agreed was Universally Dumb....he lobbed a stun grenade at Dobah. When the dice stopped clattering, there was a moment of silence...then a cheer that rattled the windows of the game shop. Another lucky roll left Dobah staggered just long enough for the bounty hunter to stop screwing around and finally drop Dobah.
The guys then turned to the Rodian, who explained that the bounty hunters patron had sent him to apprehend Dobah, as well. But the rodian had failed and had to throw himself on the dubious mercies of Dobah. The group struck a deal...the PC's could take the remains of Dobah back and explained what all went on, while the Rodian would take Dobah's ship and go his own way. And the PCs think they've seen the last of the Rodian.... (Insert Evil Grin here)
But the question still remains.... How are these guys not dead?

Dice probabilities. Green dice are better for successes. There are several articles and even calculators on this topic.

Are you using setback dice? This is where talents and such start coming into play.

And beyond the dice...SW FFG style is narrative driven. Use the narrative.

Yeah, I know the probabilities and the builds and everything like that. My question, though, is more born of disbelief than a desire to know how these guys can just stomp into a situation that even Leeroy Jenkins would call too risky, yet manage to come through unscathed (relatively speaking).
The players are having an absolute blast with the game, and are starting to get into the stories and arcs, and are beginning to spread their XPs across their various skills.