question on astarra and geomancer

By rmeehan, in Descent: Journeys in the Dark

can astarra use summoning stones with her hero ability, as stones are obstacles and not figures according to their familiar card. are they still a hero cause they are not treated as figures but treated as obstacles

Summoning stones are obstacles, so not heroes, and not even figures. The Reanimate and Wolf familiar are also not treated as heroes (but can be the target of monster attacks and more as specified in the rulebook).

Summoned stones are not considered treated as a hero in any situation, but can be attacked and dealt conditions, any other effects that affect heroes are NOT applied to summoned stones. That's the actual interpretation for the community. However, this is a polemic discussion we had in another topic, see for yourself:

emproc1346, on 28 Jan 2013 - 07:54 AM, said:
The rulebook states: "They [familiars] may be targeted and affected by monster attacks, hero abilities, and Overlord cards that target a hero."
So I think every agrees that a reanimate could obviously be affected by a whole slew of cards/abilities such as Stoneskin, Pit Trap, Dark Charm, Critical Blow, etc. etc…. And a reanimate has to roll a surge to hit an adjacent Shadow Dragon…

But the Stone card says it's a familiar treated as an obstacle… So the question becomes whether this is along with being able to be targeted as a hero or supercedes this language (per the Golden Rules)… Because if it supercedes the language, then it wouldn't be able to be targeted by the things stuff inthe previous paragrah like Dark Charm (or even Prayer of Healing), but also wouldn't need to roll a surge to hit an adjacent Shadow Dragon…
So while I agree that the card text makes the stone an obstacle, does it nonetheless remain treatable as a hero as well?

EDIT: And even if it an still be targeted as a hero, does it need a surge to hit an adjacent monster with Shadow, since the language on Shadow only stipulates "hero"?

Here comes the answer from the game designer:

Since a Summoned Stone is treated as an obstacle and not a hero or monster figure, no abilities applying to heroes or monsters may be used. Thus, it wouldn't be affected by Shadow. However, any ability that allows you to attack through a Summoned Stone, if it's adjacent to a Shadow Dragon, is subject to the Shadow ability (since the hero is the one performing the attack).
The Reanimate is treated as a hero figure, so it would be subject to Shadow.

Thanks,
Justin Kemppainen
Creative Content Developer
Fantasy Flight Games"

I think Reanimate is still treated as hero, no? Same thing for the wolf familiar and Brightblaze familiar? All three familiar cards state themselves as being a figure in addition to any other parameters.

For further informations you can reffer here: https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/78292-summoned-stone-obstaclefigure/?hl=%2Bsummoned+%2Bstones#entry1955563 .

Edited by Dommus

I think Reanimate is still treated as hero, no? Same thing for the wolf familiar and Brightblaze familiar? All three familiar cards state themselves as being a figure in addition to any other parameters.

As per the rulebook (and clarified in the FAQ) familiars treated as figures or other figures treated as heroes:

Q: What abilities affect “figures treated as hero figures?”
A: Hero abilities, monster abilities, monster attacks, and Overlord cards
that can target a hero can also target a figure that is treated as a hero
figure. Figures treated as hero figures may be given conditions and are
affected by terrain. Nothing else affect figures treated as hero figures
unless specifically stated (for example, quest rules and Plot cards).
Q: Can monster abilities that are not attacks affect familiars that are treated
as figures?
A: Yes, any hero or monster ability, monster attack, or Overlord card that
targets a hero can also target a familiar that is treated as a figure. Quest
special rules that refer to heroes do not include familiars that are treated
as figures unless specifically stated.
Note that the Reanimate, Wolf, and Brightblaze are all familiars treated as figures, and so would fall under the above rules.
Summoned stones are familiars, but are treated as obstacles (not as figures or heroes,) and so do not fall under these rules.
Skye, Pico, and the Shadow Soul are familiars, but they are not treated as figures.
Image tokens are not familiars, but they are treated as hero figures (and so would be subject to the rules listed.)

The fact Summoned Stones can be attacked but are immune to Blast damage never ceases to amaze me.

Edited by Indalecio

The fact Summoned Stones can be attacked but are immune to Blast damage never ceases to amaze me.

Could you please point me to that ruling? Because I've got this:

2) Can a summoned stone be part of a fire breath attack? What if it is the first (target space) of such an attack? Thanks.

2) Yes, a summoned stone can be part of a fire breath attack, as it can be “targeted and affected by any attack” ( Summoned Stone Familiar Card). Fire Breath does not operate any differently if the stone is the first space. Normally, obstacles could not be counted through, however since summoned stones are given the exception of being able to be targeted and affected by an attack, they can be counted through for the purposes of being attacked (counting range to the summoned stone ) or affected by an attack (counting for Fire Breath).

Edited by Zaltyre

The fact Summoned Stones can be attacked but are immune to Blast damage never ceases to amaze me.

That's somewhat new to me :mellow: ! But following the same line of thinking than conditions, blast needs at least one damage to be dealt in the main attack to be released, shouldn't then the blast be considered a valid attack against the summoned stones?

Edited by Dommus

The fact Summoned Stones can be attacked but are immune to Blast damage never ceases to amaze me.

That's somewhat new to me :mellow: ! But following the same line of thinking than conditions, blast needs at least one damage to be dealt in the main attack to be released, shouldn't then the blast be considered a valid attack against the summoned stones?

1) Blast doesn't require damage dealt to the initial target to happen. You can attack an ironbound that rolls 10 defense against your 4 damage and still blast the goblin archers all around him.

2) I'm pretty certain (based on the response I received regarding fire breath) that stones are absolutely susceptible to blast because of the text that allows them to be attacked.

Sorry for the confusion, guys. I was certain Blast could not affect the stones, but Zaltyre has more recent rulings stating the opposite. My bad!