Varnias Tybalt said:

Entirely variable. In the Caphias Cain novels he described his valhallan regiment as made up of 5 compants with the third being the auxilliary company, full of all the auxilliary units that they didnt have a place for, with each normal company consisting of 5 plattons of 10 men. This is at variance with him describing it as little over a thousand men as by my count even the four companys without including the auxilliary company is 1320 at least.

The Imperial Guard Primer however sates that a Cadian Regiment is 6 Companys of between 2 and 6 squads with a command section.

Other fluff Ive read puts a regiment at 10 000 +

So theres no hard or fast rules

However In the rogue trader rulebbok, it states that a regiments worth of men is 1000 men. Quite why they chose this figure Im not sure but there may be a number of reasons. Firstly because historically a small regiment would be about two batallions and thats about 500 men, the smallest number thats a military force is capable realistically of operating independantly. And secondly some of the early fluff written by William King stated that there is a cap on rogue traders having no more than 1000 men under arms to stop them getting ideas. However Im pretty sure that as much as he is revetred as one of GW favorite writers this is hardly canon:

http://www.trollslayer.net/essays/rt.html

Lastly you have to be realistic, A guard regiment for a Rogue trader aboard his own ship is going to be small. Thats a lot of troops to feed and keep trained. Also any larger and youre really risking mutiny.

As for combuined arms then yes but with Provisions. Im creating a Guard Regiment to reflect whatt in my barracks

100th Beorman Frontier Regiment:

3 Companys of light infantry made of ragtag soldiers that keep getting seconded or enlisted from various warzones that, often dropped in valkaries (But not troops, not enough time to train such a motely bunch of grunts and misfits."

1 Heavy weapons company complete with sentry guns and Aegis Barriers, specialised in quickly setting up a perimetre defence (For when the grunts have cleared the ground and the rogue trader need to get the gear on land)

1 Assault weapons company, armed mostly with flamers and other assorted weapons to clear out space hulks and confined spaces,

1 Company of sentinels who fulfill a tank hunting roll should it ever get messy and the xenos having some heavy firepower

1 Auxilliary Company of vehicles the rogue trader has purchased, borrowed, thieved, that fufill specialist roles such as demolition vehicle, burrowing machines etc all lovingly tendered by the the hereditary sons of the regiment, all offspring of interplanet 'indescretions'

All these commanded by officers in pristine dress uniforms and breastplates and white gloves. out to earn prestige on the field of battle in some far flung emperor forsaken corner of the Galaxy.

Captain Harlock said:

No there are no hard fast rules for the current numbers of any regiment, mainly because it is rare for regiments to be replenished, and we all know that Guardsmen take losses on the battlefield quite frequently, so technically a regiment could be pretty much any figure (Tanith 1st aka "Gaunt's Ghosts" used to number in the thousands when it was founded, but due to the destruction of Tanith and the many campaigns they have taken part in without actually replenishing their numbers that often has left them with much fewer numbers)

The figures I quoted where meant for freshly started regiments that haven't seen combat yet. The Departemento Munitorium would have standard figures for that, and it's their figures I went with.

There is a lot more to this simple question than it would seem.

The following is just my take on force structures, forces and how they relate to the Rogue Trader.

First off what is a regiment. The fluff is often contradictory and sometimes wildly impractical so we built our own based on RL armies. Taking the numbers given in RT (500-1000) it is likely they mixed up battalions and regiments. (as 500-1000 is a reasonable number of men to find in a battalion) A realistic force structure could be something like what follows. (taken from RL modern armies)

squad (~10 men)

platoon (~4 squads)

company (~4 platoons)

battalion (~5 companies)

regiment/brigade (~3+ battalions)

division (~2+ regiments/brigades)

corps (~2+ divisions)

army (anything bigger than a corps)

So I would say a regiment is on average 2400 men. I do not have this change the acquisition just what people tent to call it.

Second is how many troops can your ship carry without special measures (barracks etc) before it starts effecting the ship in some way (not enough supplies etc). What my group has worked out looks like this and includes vehicles. (if there are no vehicles then you can double the number) However deployment of the vehicals and troops is another manner. Without proper facilities and transport (which you get with the barracks option) any combat landing/deployment is bound to be clumsy and rife with confusion and messups.

Transports 5000

Raiders 1000

Frigates 2000

Light Cruisers 5000

Cruisers 10000

We have rulled that barracks can be bought multiple times and each one can hold 5000 troops with supplies/vehicles/deployment capabilities, double for pure infantry.

Third is how "Rare" is a organized group of fighting men. This is the tricky one and depends almost exclusively on where you are.and what you are looking for. So now you have to decide if you want to get a unit from someone else or make your own.

Lets look at getting one from someone else first, or what we call a prefab unit. Lets say you want a couple of battalions of skitarii. If you are orbiting a highly populated forge world they are going to be fairly common and pretty rare anywhere else. If you want some arbites units chances are you wont find any out on the frontier worlds your best bet are hive worlds. There are no hard rules for this as it is entirely GM call on whether there are troops around that the RT might be able to get his hands on. However considering the scope of what a RT does and that in 40k "there is only war" I would say when in doubt let there be troops. The way we have it set up is a whole unit is bargained for at one time (a single acquisition roll) the GM comes up with the modifier and then let make your roll.

The other method (and much more interesting) is to make your own force. This is going to involve a series of acquisition tests. The way we work it is you need to roll for the men, the most common weapons they use with a -5 to the roll to represent various heavy weapons and specialist troopers, the most common armor with a -5 if you want to have sergents and up have slightly better armor, and also for their general kit which we lump into 1 roll (we have the quality good, best, etc effect moral), and also the vehicles they use different vehicle types are rolled separately (life is cheap in 40k, tanks are not) with a -5 to the rolls if they have variants on the vehicles leman russ demolishers instead of standard leman russ tanks as an example. Also for any special pieces of gear you may want.

Fourth is the question of can a unit of troops be considered a single piece of equipment (and thus be gotten with the starting free acquisition). We ruled that it could if it was a prefab unit and had a modifier no worse that +0.

To show how this works lets take the example of what my group did. (as we did both

To start off with we bought a barracks component.

Next the arch militant got a IG regiment ~2500 men as his starting acquisition. The GM ruled that based on where we started (over a hive world) IG forces were common +20, of common quality +0, and that 2500 of them were significant amount -20, giving a net of +0 and thus he could take it as his starting pick.

Then after play had started we decided we needed more troops that were both disposable and good for boarding operations. Thus we took a short side trip (all hail a good navigator and the skittish complication) to a feral world where the IG used to recruit (well they still do but not as much) abhuman beastmen for the IG. (as a side note we represent them using the Aberration and Clawed/Fanged mutations) Here we went out and recruited beastmen. The GM decided that as conditions on the planet were horrible and we were offering actual pay (though very little) instead of slavery, beastmen willing to sign on to be fighters were plentiful +30. However we were looking for skilled fighters who specialized in close combat and would not take any shlub who walked up, so the quality was good -10. Finally we were looking for 5000 (as they would not have any vehicles you can stuff 2x as many of them in the barracks) of them, a significant number -20. The final roll was a +0 roll which in this case showed that making those commerce roll before hand is important as it made the difference in making it or not.

Next up is their gear, a short trip to a forge world (again a RT best friend is a good navigator and the skittish complication) and we are in negotiations with the Mechanicus to provide gear for our beastmen (we debated on who to smooze for the gear but decided that the forge world would have all of it in one stop even if pieces of it might be easier to get in other locations (with the right peers)). First up was the armor we wanted standard guard flak for our beastmen. GM decided that on a forge world guard flak is common +20, common quality +0, and 5000 is a significant amount -20. We were not going to give better than flak to any beastman no matter the rank so no -5. Giving a +0 again.

Now we needed weapons, pump shotguns and chain swords for everyone. The GM ruled that the chain swords were common +20, but that the pump shotguns were not made on this forge world (to simple of an item to be worth their time here, they just let them be made on the hive worlds) so they were actually scarce +0. All of common quality +0 and significant amounts (5000) for +20. The chain swords were to be standard issue with no real variation so there was no -5 to the roll, however we did want to have some heavy weapons flamers and whatnot so the pump shotgun roll gets a -5. So we had a +0 roll for the swords, and a -25 roll for the shotguns.

We wanted to keep them happy (5k well equipped beastmen rampaging through our ship in mutany was a unpleasant thought to me) so we got them good quality kit. The GM decided that full sets of military kit were plentiful on a forge world +30, good quality -10, and significant amounts of them -20. Yep its a +0 acquisition roll again.

No vehicles but we did want a specia piece of gear for our unit, the naval shield. Average availability +10, common quality +0, significant amounts -20. Totaled out at -10.

So to sum up our force of 5000 beastmen specialized in close quarters fighting looked like this.

beastmen +0 roll

guard flak armor +0 roll

chainswords +0 roll

pumpshotguns (with specialists and heavy weapons) -25 roll

good quality kit +0 roll

naval shields -10 roll

As you might expect we failed to get all of the gear at one time despite our plans and had to make a few more stops get them all. Why all this trouble? Well our GM decided that since we were carrying a good quality and well equipped force for boarding and other close combat situations we got a +30 bonus instead of the +20 from our barracks. That and the roll playing possibilities of having a hoard of beastmen at your disposal are juicy:)

Anyway that is how we did it Questions, comments, and concerns are welcome.

I'm not sure if I've ever seen battalion used in regards to IG. I think they go directly from company to regiment.

I have seen it in a few places IIRC usually in regards to support elements like artillery though size and what not, are of course vague. Not really the point though, we just used a more consistent/based on RL force structure to iron out the near limitless confusion on what is a regiment in 40k. This worked for us as it is a baseline everyone in our group understood.

HappyDaze said:

I can't say I've seen the battalion-unit being used for IG either. Like you said, it's more often from company to regiment.

Of course, one might prefer to use some real world analogy to work out the numbers, but the trouble that I've found with that is the fact that sizes for the different military units tend to vary between nations, and some unit-sizes aren't even used internationally.

The same goes for ranks in the modern world military and the Imperial Guard. For instance, the rank of private is fairly common in real world military forces, but they don't have privates in the Imperial Guard, only troopers.

So whenever it comes to determining these things, I prefer to go with what fluff-sources I have available (Imperial Infantryman's Uplifiting Primer among others) rather than using real world analogies, but that's just me...

HappyDaze said:

HappyDaze said:

Neither have I really. But there again a Battalion isn’t a administrative unit like a regiment. It just denotes a number of men that can operate independently in a theatre of war. So for example if you had to send down a IG force from your ship to oooo say occupy a town or fulfil a military objective, in order for them to operate meaningfully and conduct a prolonged military action throughout history they number nearly always about 500 men. This has less to do with beating an enemy and more mundane things like setting up a HQ, making latrines, setting a perimeter with pickets, sentry duties etc. an....
No.... stop captain harlock... this is getting really @nal. Please stun me with a power maul. I get carried away sometimes,,,,

If you are going to go with fluff for regiment size I would go with Abnets sizes in the ravenor books (which varies wildly from the tanith books). At least with the ravenor take on regiment size you don't need to have units like the 328,745th Scintillian.

I can actually contribute something here.

The regiment sizes vary depending on the source ( a cynic would say depending on what day of the week it is), but the majority seem to place a regiment at fighting strength at 2,000-10,000 fighting troops. The range from 1,000-2,000 is where the Munitorium will strongly concider pulling the regiment from the lines and either merging it with another or disbanding it. Unlike modern forces, the reginent is a combat formation rather than an administrative one, with the colonel (usually) commanding it being the senior battlefield officer in most cases.

Battalions are sometimes mentioned, but are by no means universal.

Below the regiment the main unit is the company, usually in the 100-300 men range and most often a captain's post. Below this will be several platoons, in the 20-60 range in most cases.

Note that armoured and artillery units are also formed into companies, whilst the equivelant of a platoon for tanks is the squadron, whilst mobile artillery forms a battery (usually three vehicles in both cases). This is a departure from real life practice, and is likely an extension of the vehicle formation rules from 2nd edition 40K, but has been applied prety much consistantly.

I've actually got a bunch of documents I put together on Guard force org from a while back, if anyone voices an interest.

Darth Fanboy said:

I understand why you say this (I believe this is the official line from the games and the 40k codexes). The only problem is they are NEVER treated like that in any of the fluff or even in the canon material after they say that. Other than when they say those few lines saying they are a combat formation (the equivalent of the modern task force, group, or combat team) they are always treated like full fledged units.

Using the Commonwealth model, the modern regiment is a pure administrative and "historical continuity" formation. A regiment consisting of more than one battalion will never be deployed to a conflict area as a single unit. The battalion is the primary force.

In 40K, the regiment is the core formation. Unless someone screws up, the regiment will be moved from warzone to warzone, not its components. As far as the Imperium as a whole is concerned, the regiment will win honour; not the battalion (where present) and not the company, On the battlefield a regiment may be split into components, and may be reinforced by another formation or used to reinforce one, but equally the whole regiment may be deployed en mass as a single formation in a large battle.

dont know if this add to anything, but voidsmen quarters (frigate) have a space of 4 and power useage of 2 and i imagin that is where your ship crewmen live/sleep (26-30000) This might be like on a submarine, where every bed have 2-3 using it and everyone is on 8-12 hour shift.

If thats the chase then 10-15k men living in a ship barrack seem like a reasoable number, since they are going to be there in the barrack area all the time. And your be able to put more men in them for short trips, but risk some morale penalty.

But if voidmens quarters mean 1 bed for everyone well then we talk alot bigger number, althou i gues barracks use some of the spaces for tanks/shuttles/equipment and so on.

Darth Fanboy said:

Sure, I'd like to see those, does the organization vary between regiments from different worlds?

Asolr said:

You know, most of these ships are going to carry women too, which means families producing children, who in turn grow up to be new crewmen.

Most of these families would have their own compartment.

Asolr said:

Possibly. But barracks doesnt imply mere sleeping quarters. It also implys training areas, shooting ranges, officers mess, medical depot, an armoury, machine shops, better facilities to allow troop deployment, storage for vehicles, specialised ships etc etc. You could purchase a regiment normally and keep them in the cargo hold if you want, like in the novel star of damocles, but its hardly the best way to keep troops for a rogue trader whose main way of getting things done is through the shooting end of a lasgun, hence the +20 to reflect the ease of pursuing a military odjective with the extra facilities provided by the barracks. Think of the ship the sulaco in the aliens movie. Then stick its basic colonial marine facilies on a 40K ship and I think you should get the picture.

How many troops? Not sure. For example my barracks is fixed into a frigate with his approx 23000 men...10-15000 seems a bit much to much to have humans not doing anything except stripping their lasgun and peforming marches in the regimental gymnasia. Since the majority of the fluff is indentured workers and crims breaking their backs in the lower levels and used like galley slaves to keep the ship going, I Would pump for anything between a 1000 to 5000 men, with 10000+ really only available to those in cruisers.

Captain Harlock said:

True and that may be the chase i guess they need some big halls for there transport ships/vehicles, but i would imagin we can say the same for the voidmens quarters. They must have shops that fix everything from shoes/clothing medical area and everything eelse needed for a small spacecity to work.

Asolr said:

True. When I initially bought Rogue Trader I compared it with the information from the novel Relentless which gives a good view of Imperial Cruisers operating above and below decks. After Highlighting all the possible shifts, gunners, officers ratings gunners etc you actually begin to run out of men very quickly. The whole **** ship has to be self sufficient. There is for example one description of a indenctured workers shift whose job is the rummage through the human waste to get anything that can be can be recycled. On a deep range missions such as rogue traders this kind of crazy stuff becomes even more critical.

But I guess it how you want to play. If you think that your explorers are going to deal in minerals/narcs/petra squirrels, you want a nice big cargo cold to store all the gear to sell for as many thrones you can. If you want to lay the smackdown on a planet and plant the imperiums banner to teach the locals whos boss pump for barracks. Thinking on really pushing the imperiums border? Youre gonna need is own forges to make all the minition and materials you need.

In the pipe...

Battlegroup (Regimental Battlegroup, Combat Force)
The battlegroup is the basic combat formation of the Imperial Guard in many campaigns. As regiments are usually assembled for a single role (infantry, armour etc.) it is necessary for elements of several regiments to act in concert in order to ensure victory. A battlegroup is usually formed around an infantry battalion (or battalion strength regiment of infantry) supported by several companies drawn from other regiments that provide the required support units. Armoured battlegroups usually consist an armoured battalion or battalion strength regiment supported by one or more mechanised infantry companies and further units, such as artillery or dedicated reconnaissance units.

Battlegroups are often sub-divided at the operational level, each such element often consisting a single company from the main formation with attached supporting units (usually at the squadron or platoon level, but sometimes individual squads or vehicles).

Command is most often granted to the senior officer of the core unit. Thus a colonel or major will generally lead such a formation.

3nd Battlegroup, 2nd (Mordian) Brigade, 4th Division, Kovistan Front, Kurnist, 4th Sector Wars, 298.M40 – Major Reed
3rd Battalion, Mordian 31st Infantry – Major Reed
>1st Company – Captain Kelly
>2nd Company – Captain Giotto
>3rd Company – Captain Yar
>4th Company – Captain Eddington
>5th Company – Captain April
>6th Company – Captain Forrest
5th Company, 2nd Battalion, Mordian 33rd Armour – Captain Daniels
6th Company, 2nd Battalion, Mordian 33rd Armour – Captain Stone
6th Company, 1st Battalion, Mordian 37th Anti-Aircraft – Captain Travers
6th Company, 1st Battalion, Mordian 38th Engineers – Captain Wesley

Combat Force Savar, 8th Army, Jortun Liberation, 398.M41
179th Lotharian Infantry – Colonel Savar
>A Company – Colonel Savar
>B Company – Major Rollman
>C Company – Captain James
>D Company – Captain Coburn
38th Platoon, Formand 9 Ogryn Auxilia – Lieutenant Gly/Sergeant Blackmountain
43rd Platoon, Formand 9 Ogryn Auxilia – Lieutenant Inderon/Sergeant Ironbird
C Company, 89th Lotharian Light Artillery – Captain Brand
4th Company, 2nd Battalion, Cadian 302nd Recon – Captain Pressman

Division
Within the Imperial Guard a division is a large multi-regiment strength formation, commonly formed from several brigades, usually including around 10,000-100,000 troops. Standard tactical doctrine dictates that a division is a combined arms force capable of sustaining independent operations, but exceptions are not unknown.

Ideally a division will be formed of several brigades, each of the brigades being formed of a main regiment and attached support formations. However, in practice, it is not uncommon for a division to be formed directly from component regiments and to sub-divide into battlegroups on an ad-hoc basis.

Divisions are commander by a general officer, most commonly a major-general. Divisions operating independently may fall under the direct command of officers of higher rank (indeed it is said that at the last days of the Reign of Blood, Lord Commander Militant of the Imperial Guard Sontir Halken commanded his household guard division personally against the Daughters of the Emperor during the siege of the Imperial Palace).

4th Division, Kovistan Front, Kurnist, 4th Sector Wars, 298.M40 – Major General Bateson

Divisional Command, 4th Division, Kovistan Front, Kurnist, 4th Sector Wars, 298.M40 – Major General Bateson
-9th Battalion, Mordian 4th Guards Mechanised – Major Decker
-1st Company, 241st Mordian Signals – Captain Rush
-2nd Company, 241st Mordian Signals – Captain Legato

1st (Mordian) Brigade, 4th Division, Kovistan Front, Kurnist, 4th Sector Wars, 298.M40 – Brigadier Dwyer
-Mordian 29th Infantry – Colonel Rammart
-1st Battalion, Mordian 33rd Armour – Major Thomas
-1st Company, 1st Battalion, Mordian 37th Anti-Aircraft – Captain Diego
-2nd Company, 1st Battalion, Mordian 37th Anti-Aircraft – Captain Stadius
-3rd Company, 1st Battalion, Mordian 37th Anti-Aircraft – Captain Travers
-1st Company, 1st Battalion, Mordian 38th Engineers – Captain Chandra
-2nd Company, 1st Battalion, Mordian 38th Engineers – Captain Sanders
-3rd Company, 1st Battalion, Mordian 38th Engineers – Captain Darson
-3rd Company, 241st Mordian Signals – Captain Dean

2nd (Mordian) Brigade, 4th Division, Kovistan Front, Kurnist, 4th Sector Wars, 298.M40 – Brigadier Casey
Mordian 30th Infantry – Colonel Jeferies
-2nd Battalion, Mordian 33rd Armour – Major Brody
-4th Company, 1st Battalion, Mordian 37th Anti-Aircraft – Captain Bateson
-5th Company, 1st Battalion, Mordian 37th Anti-Aircraft – Captain Harriman
-6th Company, 1st Battalion, Mordian 37th Anti-Aircraft – Captain Travers
-4th Company, 1st Battalion, Mordian 38th Engineers – Captain Lopez
-5th Company, 1st Battalion, Mordian 38th Engineers – Captain Braxton
-6th Company, 1st Battalion, Mordian 38th Engineers – Captain Wesley
-4th Company, 241st Mordian Signals – Captain Donald

3rd (Mordian) Brigade, 4th Division, Kovistan Front, Kurnist, 4th Sector Wars, 298.M40 – Brigadier Stone
Mordian 31st Infantry – Colonel Braxton
-3rd Battalion, Mordian 33rd Armour – Major Raymer
-1st Company, 2nd Battalion, Mordian 37th Anti-Aircraft – Captain Ransom
-2nd Company, 2nd Battalion, Mordian 37th Anti-Aircraft – Captain Amasov
-3rd Company, 2nd Battalion, Mordian 37th Anti-Aircraft – Captain Bergen
-1st Company, 2nd Battalion, Mordian 38th Engineers – Captain Berkley
-2nd Company, 2nd Battalion, Mordian 38th Engineers – Captain Bryce
-3rd Company, 2nd Battalion, Mordian 38th Engineers – Captain Chapel
-5th Company, 241st Mordian Signals – Captain Castro

4th (Mordian) Brigade, 4th Division, Kovistan Front, Kurnist, 4th Sector Wars, 298.M40 – Brigadier Erickson
-Mordian 32nd Artillery – Colonel Charnock
-4th Company, 2nd Battalion, Mordian 37th Anti-Aircraft – Captain Kaplan
-5th Company, 2nd Battalion, Mordian 37th Anti-Aircraft – Captain Harkins
-6th Company, 2nd Battalion, Mordian 37th Anti-Aircraft – Captain Janeway
-4th Company, 2nd Battalion, Mordian 38th Engineers – Captain Mears
-5th Company, 2nd Battalion, Mordian 38th Engineers – Captain Morrow
-6th Company, 2nd Battalion, Mordian 38th Engineers – Captain Latimer
-6th Company, 241st Mordian Signals – Captain Chapman

8th Division, 3rd Army Group, 2nd Front, von Kadjen Suppression, 772.M41 – General Vyshnevet
-8th Attilan Rough Riders – General Vyshnevet
-26th Attilan Rough Riders – Colonel Ellac
-89th Attilan Rough Riders – Colonel Dengizik
-2nd Birmingham Light Dragoons – Colonel Morganis
-7th Jongal Heavy Cuirassiers – Colonel de Valis
-90th Kurgan Lancers – Colonel Isildan
-80th Praetorian Dragoons – Colonel Wintringham
-105th Praetorian Horse Artillery – Colonel Low

Brigade
The brigade is a key combat formation within the Imperial Guard, and will most commonly consist of between two and six regiments or battalions and attached support elements, often formed into two or more battlegroups. Most brigades consist primarily of infantry with armour and artillery support, but dedicated armour or artillery formations may be deployed in special situations or when large armies are mobilised. Brigades may be independent formations, sometimes representing the entirety of the Imperial Guard’s forces on a world, or may be components of a division or other large formation.

A brigadier traditionally commands a brigade, but in practice can be lead by officers ranging in rank from colonel to a full general.

2nd (Mordian) Brigade, 4th Division, Kovistan Front, Kurnist, 4th Sector Wars, 298.M40 – Brigadier Casey
Mordian 31st Infantry – Colonel Jeferies
2nd Battalion, Mordian 33rd Armour – Major Brody
4th Company, 1st Battalion, Mordian 37th Anti-Aircraft – Captain Bateson
5th Company, 1st Battalion, Mordian 37th Anti-Aircraft – Captain Harriman
6th Company, 1st Battalion, Mordian 37th Anti-Aircraft – Captain Travers
4th Company, 1st Battalion, Mordian 38th Engineers – Captain Lopez
5th Company, 1st Battalion, Mordian 38th Engineers – Captain Braxton
6th Company, 1st Battalion, Mordian 38th Engineers – Captain Wesley
4th Company, 241st Mordian Signals – Captain Donald

Vormund Brigade, Imperial Occupation Force – High Colonel Sordal
9th Brokian Mechanised Infantry – High Colonel Sordal
Praetorian XIIX Infantry – Colonel Blimp
1st Phyruss Infantry – Colonel Rixx

Phalanx
One of the Imperial Guard’s less common formations, phalanxes are formations of heavy infantry most commonly deployed to spearhead assaults or to hold objectives until a larger and better supported force can be brought to bear. Most commonly phalanxes consist two or more companies and whilst they may be mechanised or air mobile, they by definition lack heavy armour or artillery support.

Phalanxes assembled on a temporary basis are usually lead by the most senior of the component companies’ captains. Those few phalanxes established as permanent forces are most often granted to those senior officers who favour field service over rear-echelon duties.

7th Vanguard Phalanx, Cadia, 987.M40 – Colonel Pike
86th Kasrkin Company – Captain Daniel
103rd Kasrkin Company – Captain Simmons
187th Kasrkin Company – Captain Willard

Note please that these are extrapolations from the established background. Whilst they do not contradict canon, except where it contradicts itself, neither do they draw solely from it.

This is also not the most directly relevant to a Rogue Trader's forces, who I would immagine would be a single regiment, primarily infantry (often laden down with every item of specialist kit they can lay hand on) with some armoured support (which would likely be part of the regiment rather than an attatched unit).

Darth Fanboy said:

True I can see it now...

Frezenio looked round at the mess. Blessed throne he thought, this is going to take a while to clear up. And its not going to be popular with the locals. The burning ruins of the hab-blocks cast a ruddy glow against the night sky. He drew his heavy jacket tighter to cut out the cold and the debris flying in the wind. He could see in the distance Lieutenant Harker, leading the assault platoons into what seemed to be a religious building consecrated to whichever misguided belief this dirt ball held on to. Intermittent Sniper fire was still coming from that area and he needed the place to be clear, hence Harker had half a dozen flamer squads, who will probably burnt down the edifice with enthusiasm, the officer being a feverent emperor botherer. He tapped his bead comm in ear as a message came through the alpha command channel, over the sub-tactical chatter

“Lieutenant Colonel?”

“Lord Captain, the perimeter has been secures back here at the auxiliary landing facilities, we have finally cleared the last of the resistance. We have started to set up the sentry guns and C Company’s ship has just arrived”

“Very good. Tell them to make haste. The Colonel has pressed forward with a bit too much haste for my liking. I don't want him to be cut off without decent support. Halstadt, er… could you tell G Company that while their efforts to clear a passage for me here are much appreciated, they may have been a bit over-zealous with the barrages. There’s very little left standing here”

“Captain Flavio says it was necessary. The Hab- Block should have been cleared of civilians twenty four hours ago. Any remaining had to be considered either hostiles or stupid.”

“Well the passage is broad enough. You can tell him to stop now”

“In truth Lord Captain, Captain Flavio is already distracted sir, He’s found some new toys in the warehouses nearby”

Frezenio smiled. G Company, the hereditary sons of the regiments’ interplanetary indiscretions manned the motley assortment of vehicles and specialist equipment that the dynasty had picked up over time. They would ‘borrow’ anything that they could lay their hands on that wasn't nailed down, anything from useful local macro haulers to rugged Imperial guard hardware. Frezenio had heard that they even had an Ork battlewagon hidden somewhere in the barracks, though apparently its controls had eluded their comprehension. Still, it saved him having to spend his thrones on new kit, although it had brought him some griefin the past. Air defence Hydras to the Cadian 238th Air defence battery mysteriously went missing during an Ork bombing raid of Lessian II, something that the munitorium was not happy about. Hydras that were now deployed round the landing pads ten kilometres down the road.

“What’s he found now?” Frezenio sighed “Tell him that he can keep the kit after we have persuaded the locals to be more accommodating”

“Well he says its important. He says there’s 6 Leman Russ Demolishers here in the warehouse. But sir I thought we were the first..”

Frezenio cut him short

“Get me the Colonel Vorbeck now!”

Not Good thought Frezenio.

So far the regiment had faced lightly armed men and flimsy local vehicles. So what were Leman Russes doing here on this planet? Had someone else traded imperial Technology here? If so who? Suddenly Frezenio had the sinking feeling that bringing this planet into the Emperors light was going to be harder than he initially thought. And if he wasn't careful Colonel Vorbeck might be running into stiffer opposition than expected….

Rogue Trader forces are also the best places in the setting to find the really fun kit. Termite-deployed demolitions teams, jump pack assault platoons, land speeder squadrons and so-on. And that's when you don't pick a unit famous for this in the first place. Just imagine what a regiment of Savlar Chem Dogs would get up to after a generation of working along side a Rogue Trader dynasty.

The Rogue Traders are also likely going to be thought of as an ideal way to get rid of those annoying officers who make themselves embarrassing but who are nonetheless too competent to disband or otherwise dispose of. One of the planned NPCs for a game I’m still hoping to run got promoted to Brigadier by direct order of the Crusade’s Warmaster, with nobody knowing at the time that the acting regimental commander who salvaged matters was a senior cadet squad leader of the 258th Cadian Youth Guard. A sideways promotion to someone else’s jurisdiction avoids anyone having to point out to the Warmaster that his newest commander hasn’t hit sixteen yet.

In regards to the "acquisition" of units of the IG and/or Mercs it is already covered in table 9-35: Acquisition Modifiers . This table is located on pg. 272 of Rogue Trader . Though; personally, I tend to disagree with the listed range of personnel given for a specific size of unit, I veiw them more as guidelines on the matter.

-=Brother Praetus=-

Maybe this was mentioned or not, but isn’t this discussion defeating the purpose of Rogue Trader? I’ve been told over and over and over again that the proper way to play this game is for the RT, and his senior officers, to swing into the hordes of the enemy with guns a blazing and a cutlass between his teeth like swashbucklers. If not, the incredibly incompetent crew will lose faith, accuse their superiors of cowardice, mutiny, desert, cry, and poo themselves. Now you’re discussing how Rogue Traders might do something logical and crew a contingent of highly trained and equipped fighting troops? You dare to apply logic to a game that the consensus argues that you can’t? How presumptuous of you! Your collector’s editions should be stripped from you and your profit margins slashed! Like I’ve been told; you obviously have no idea how this game is suppose to be played! Maybe you should be sitting in your battle bridges, filling out paperwork, and playing Settlers of Catan?

calibur1 said:

Not necessarily.

Some Endavours might have certain objectives that require the use of a large force of military personel (i.e fighting a battle that are simply way too large for just a Rogue Trader and his closest associates to handle). While the Rogue Trader could simply employ a bunch of armed redshirts to tackle that particular objective, having a fully trained unit of soldiers doing it might give the group more objective points (mainly because they completed the task with much less losses than they would have using run-o-the-mill redshirts).

Also, sometimes it would be prudent to bring a small team of guards on certain missions (I can tell you that whenever our group had to take the guncutter to a potentially hostile location we filled it up to it's passenger capacity with our characters and a bunch of armed red-shirts, just to have some extra guns on our side and people who could carry stuff needed to be carried). Normally the Rogue Trader and his band of explorers would jsut bring some redshirts on for the trip, but redshirts are only as proficient as the ships NPC crew rating (a competent crew would have skills and characteristics of 30, which isn't overwhwlmingly good).

If the dynasty invested in having a regiment of trained soldiers aboard, they could look forward to having a bit more competent and better armed guard detail to watch their backs whenever they might need bringing some more men along for "picnics" on strange planets, space hulks, airless moons, alien ruins etc. etc.

Most of the exploration and important fighting will still be for the Explorers to handle anyway, so it wouldn't defeat the purpose of Rogue Trader at all. It is simple enough for the GM to say that the NPC's fail with their objective if the players ever try to pull off a stunt where they don't attempt to achieve certain mission objectives in person.

Sending 10,000 troops with trained and equipped in the manner of the Imperial Guard to storm a Xenos or Heathen fortress doesn't defeat the purpose of the game as long as the PCs are involved on the front lines or close behind. Leading the charges dressed in Powered Armour, piloting gun-cutters to give air support, taking elite squads on strikes against key positions, these are all in the spirit of the game.

It's only when the PCs sit on the starship sipping Best-Quality Amasec in the palatial Captain's suite while the NPCs do all the fighting based on Crew Quality skill rolls that things start becoming a problem. OOC it makes for a less dramatic game, and IC the crew probably will start losing respect for the RT.

Nobody thinks that giving the PCs resources like that is a total buzzkill to any game? I’m not understanding what Rogue Trader wants to be? I believe that the scale of the game is way too high for PCs. Why would you give them power like that with the only motivation behind it is greed and pride? Assuming that the RT is successful, what does a vain, megalomaniac billionaire do with more power and money? Buy a bigger ship? Buy a fleet of ships? Become a supervillian? When does the character say, “OK, I have enough wealth and power I can retire?” Most rpgs end when the PCs can afford their own fleet of ships and personal trained armies. Why? Because the challenge is over. Now you’re crossing over from an rpg to a wargame. At least in rpgs like Star Wars, Serenity, and Traveller there is room to “go up”, but in Rogue Trader it’s assumed you’re already at the top. I’m not saying that’s a bad game, but it certainly is the odd one.

I’m also not getting the “personal glory” schtick and for a number of reasons. First, everyone acts like the PCs are gods compared to the common man. Maybe? If you’re comparing “stuff”, yeah. But skill wise, not so much. I’m looking at the premade PCs for Forsaken Bounty, and at best a WS or BS is 45. If the average skill of an average crewman is 30, that’s only a 15 point difference. If you told me the difference was 35, 30, or even 20 I would agree, but I’ve played Dark Heresy, and 15 is not that great of a margin. I’m also not buying the crew breaking down into tears and deserting, because the RT rather count his baubles in the royal jacuzzi than personally setting foot on a dunghole in the middle nowhere to explore. I don’t believe that even 1% of a crew of 20,000 would know who the RT was if they accidently bumped into him. At best they would mistake him for a noble passenger or senior officer. The “story” told back at port is what the RT and his officers decide it to be, everything else is just rumor by disgruntled crew who no one of importance would listen to anyway because they’re nothing more than faceless common scum. And that is coming from the setting itself. I’m not making that assumption.

In social situations where diplomacy, etiquette and negotiations are necessary the RT and his entourage should be better off handling the situation rather than an army of 10,000 troops. But that takes the fun out of carrying boltguns and powered armor. I ran into this same problem with the Star Trek rpg by FASA. What’s acceptable for movies, tv and novels doesn’t necessarily work in rpgs. PCs never follow scripts, and this terrible thing called “logic” has a habit of creeping into games. Realistically speaking, it wasn’t logical for the senior officers (PCs) to be taking unnecessary risks, but thinking logically undermined the spirit of the game. Claiming that is just the way it is because the setting dictates it so isn’t good enough and has never worked out for me in the long haul.

I finally received my copy of Rogue Trader, and I will be introducing my players to it with Forsaken Bounty over the Thanksgiving holiday. However, my players are like sharks when it comes to weak sauce, so I’m not keeping my hopes up too high.