Cheers Captain. I was about to point that out myself.

Quick question, are we doing any finals playoffs after the 3rd round?

And it was right at the start of the game as well. I always said Avenger was an alright title eh MattShadowlord? (Matt tested Reath's fleet against me and he remarked that Avenger was a bad title to use in any fleet).

I WAS WORKING FOR REATH ALL ALONG, VIPEROUS!! Muahahah.

Actually what I said was I didn't think Avenger was a great title in a fleet with just 2 ships but

• <Matt-Shadowlord> - Just remember he's going to want you to use the def tokens vs bombers and then use Avenger vs the same ship.
• <Matt-Shadowlord> - So, ISD activates squadrons, then shoots
• <Viperous> - eh

And it was right at the start of the game as well. I always said Avenger was an alright title eh MattShadowlord? (Matt tested Reath's fleet against me and he remarked that Avenger was a bad title to use in any fleet).

I WAS WORKING FOR REATH ALL ALONG, VIPEROUS!! Muahahah.

Actually what I said was I didn't think Avenger was a great title in a fleet with just 2 ships but

• <Matt-Shadowlord> - Just remember he's going to want you to use the def tokens vs bombers and then use Avenger vs the same ship.
• <Matt-Shadowlord> - So, ISD activates squadrons, then shoots
• <Viperous> - eh

I knew it! You seemed to agree to doing a practice game extremely quickly when I asked you! But actually you were kinda helpful, although at times when I was playing Reath I felt like it was a case of...

Basically Reath's actions completely contradicted everything Matt had told me (such as Reath would definitely choose Minefields as a torpedo frigate coming out of hyperspace is not fun, but that was exactly what Reath did.)

And Reath's bomber rolling was absolutley amazing when compared to Matt's, who rolled something like 5 blanks is a row when attacking Insight in our practice game.

BTW, since my team is gonna get the bye people can pm me if they want to test their fleet against their opponent's when the 3rd round draw comes out. I'll be only too happy to oblige.

And it was right at the start of the game as well. I always said Avenger was an alright title eh MattShadowlord? (Matt tested Reath's fleet against me and he remarked that Avenger was a bad title to use in any fleet).

I WAS WORKING FOR REATH ALL ALONG, VIPEROUS!! Muahahah.

Actually what I said was I didn't think Avenger was a great title in a fleet with just 2 ships but

• <Matt-Shadowlord> - Just remember he's going to want you to use the def tokens vs bombers and then use Avenger vs the same ship.
• <Matt-Shadowlord> - So, ISD activates squadrons, then shoots
• <Viperous> - eh

Love ya Matt. Aussies gotta stick together. I agree with you ref Avengar actually, and your prediction on using the bombers first is spot on. My most recent version trades Avenger for X17s as its alot better IMO.

Team            	Score	MOV
Chaos Shanghied         	51	1436
Bacta the Future        	43	885
Church of Rocco         	35	652
The Vanguard            	33	546
Full Jar Jar            	32	269
Objectionable Content	31	406
Hammers of Kuat  	28	404
Alamo City Fleet        	27	676
SUCKITIMPS      	26	261
First Time Vassalers	24	704
Alderaan Choices        	16	131

Funny story, I had Jarenis / Quadro score right on my sheet, but wrong on the 2nd post - namely I had the right winner but the score scrambled. So I fixed it to be all wrong everywhere yesterday!

Woohoo! Not last

Chaos Shanghied vs Bacta the Future

Church of Rocco vs The Vanguard

Full Jar Jar vs Objectionable Content

Hammers of Kuat vs SUCKITIMPS

Alamo City Fleet vs First Time Vassalers

Alderaan Choices vs BYE

Per scores, the following teams still have a mathematical shot at 1st place:

Chaos Shanghied - Just tying 5-5 in all games will do the trick.

Bacta the Future - Win 11 points over 5 - 5 across 3 games to guarantee no one catches them from behind. 4 points over 5 - 5 over those 3 games would be sufficient to beat out Chaos.

Church of Rocco - needs a good table 1 split and at least 28 points in their 3 games.

The Vanguard - needs a perfect table 1 split and 30 points (or 29 points and MOV).

Full Jar Jar - Needs a perfect split, 30 points, and MOV win.

Woohoo! Not last

Careful what you say, were probably gettting a bye to solid mid table. Suckers

Tributes are required from:

Bacta the Future

Church of Rocco

Full Jar Jar

SUCKITIMPS

Alamo City Fleet

Currently highlights in the race for Tournament MVP

Captain ICT - Chaos Shanghied - 18 points, 677 MOV

- Best average points (10) and MOV (548) for games played, but has only played 1 game so far. That one game does give him the highest MOV in the tournament though.

Caribbean Ninja - Team Vanguard - 16 points, 301 MOV

- the most points earned in played games so far

Zanos - Bacta the Future - 15 points, 310 MOV

- Steady points over 2 games. Really this could be said about any of the Bacta crew.

**Players and Observers - if you would like to vote for an MVP, please use this form.**

The amazing thing about the game is how important one choice can be. Foresight chose to redirect a bomber attack before facing the imminent ISD front blast. (Vip forgot it was avenger). ISD accuracied the other redirect, preventing foresight from using her title power and using all those shields as sponges. If she had she would have surived the round and done the vital damage Vip needed against the ISD, which finished the game on 3hull.

One choice the difference between a 9-1 defeat and a draw/victory. Its amazing.

Is it? I'd say that is a characteristic of a bad game design. Armada is a game of microdecisions, the fact that even one as small as that can make the difference between a tie and a 9-1 is not a good thing IMHO.

Such a mistake takes it from the 5-5 vicinity to an 8-2..10-0 vicinity, so from round X (let's say 3, half the game), the player who made the mistake is no longer fighting for the game, he's fighting to take a smaller loss. That doesn't seem like fun, it seems frustrating. Not to mention the fact that it doesn't go both ways. I've seen some instances of this, one mistake from one player shifts the game in the other's favour, usually by losing an important ship. Now the other player has fewer dice on the table, fewer activations etc. and it snowballs. Not a lot of room for comebacks.

The amazing thing about the game is how important one choice can be. Foresight chose to redirect a bomber attack before facing the imminent ISD front blast. (Vip forgot it was avenger). ISD accuracied the other redirect, preventing foresight from using her title power and using all those shields as sponges. If she had she would have surived the round and done the vital damage Vip needed against the ISD, which finished the game on 3hull.

One choice the difference between a 9-1 defeat and a draw/victory. Its amazing.

Is it? I'd say that is a characteristic of a bad game design. Armada is a game of microdecisions, the fact that even one as small as that can make the difference between a tie and a 9-1 is not a good thing IMHO.

Such a mistake takes it from the 5-5 vicinity to an 8-2..10-0 vicinity, so from round X (let's say 3, half the game), the player who made the mistake is no longer fighting for the game, he's fighting to take a smaller loss. That doesn't seem like fun, it seems frustrating. Not to mention the fact that it doesn't go both ways. I've seen some instances of this, one mistake from one player shifts the game in the other's favour, usually by losing an important ship. Now the other player has fewer dice on the table, fewer activations etc. and it snowballs. Not a lot of room for comebacks.

I think the reason for that swing is purely in the opponents decision to take alot of points on a single ship. I play corvette swarm, and I often loose 1-2 ships, but when I nail the fully upgraded ISD, the swing is massive but that's not FFG's fault. They gave us free will. We choose how to use it....

And the flip side of course, is if you CANT get that ISD, then its a ton of points that have been denied.

BTW, I think this could be a potentially excellent discussion, but we should probably avoid having it in this particular thread.

Okee-day! Mesa no see whosa capi-tane of Objectionable Content. Could day plees send mesa email wit dere fleets? Mooey mooey thank yoo!!

Great! Thanks for the ongoing organisation.

BTW, if I can offer some feedback in case of future team events, I think that the bye being worth 8-2 might work fine for singles but is probably too large when for multiple-player teams.

For example, the team with the bye achieved the 3rd highest score in round 2. The value of the 8-2 is probably amplified by how the rest of the games even out as almost all teams take both wins and losses.

I am not sure how to fix this in a team event with only 3 rounds, but here are three suggestions:

1. make it worth the average score achieved by the winning teams (so around 6-4 or 7-3 from each round)
2. ensure an even number of teams enter
3. recruit a team of ringers (which could be people from any team willing to play a 2nd game as a merc)

I like suggestion 3 since it means more games

Hammers of Kuat vs SUCKITIMPS

I volunteer. I VOLUNTEER AS TRIBUTE!

Great! Thanks for the ongoing organisation.

BTW, if I can offer some feedback in case of future team events, I think that the bye being worth 8-2 might work fine for singles but is probably too large when for multiple player teams.

For example, the team with the bye achieved the 3rd highest score in round 2. The value of the 8-2 is probably amplified by how the rest of the games even out as almost all teams take both wins and losses.

I am not sure how to fix this in a team event with only 3 rounds, but here are three suggestions:

1. make it worth the score achieved by winning teams (so around 6-4 or 7-3 from each round)
2. ensure an even number of teams enter
3. recruit a team of ringers (which could be people from any team willing to play a 2nd game as a merc)

I like suggestion 3 since it means more games

I think your numbers are off. We had the highest score in round 1 (because of the bye), then we went against team #2 and we still got the highest total score of 27 in round 2. And you must take into account that we had a replacement fill in for GK. Which means that for two rounds we would have played in this tournament, we played the other team with the highest score.

I agree with you that option 3. would be preferable to a bye, but I believe we have acquitted ourselves pretty well and I hope the fact that we got a bye does not muddy our final standing in the tournament in the eyes of the community.

Hammers of Kuat vs SUCKITIMPS

I volunteer. I VOLUNTEER AS TRIBUTE!

Hammers of Kuat vs SUCKITIMPS

I volunteer. I VOLUNTEER AS TRIBUTE!

Is this true?

Yes. I thought it would lose something if i said "I volunteer as tribute with the consent of my team captain!"

I have offered Vangaurd myself as Rocco's Tribute.

For example, the team with the bye achieved the 3rd highest score in round 2. The value of the 8-2 is probably amplified by how the rest of the games even out as almost all teams take both wins and losses.

I think your numbers are off. We had the highest score in round 1 (because of the bye), then we went against team #2 and we still got the highest total score of 27 in round 2.

The difference is because I was talking about the team with the bye in round 2 (Objectionable Content) , rather than round 1 (your team,Chaos Shanghied).

If we look at round 1 as well, it goes even further towards proving my point.

In round 1, the highest score was achieved by the team with a Bye (Chaos Shanghied scored 24 from 8-2 8-2 8-2) with the second place being First Time Vassalers and Suckitimps with 21. That's an even clearer demonstration of the impact of an 8-2 bye in a team tournament.

At a singles tournament with this amount of players you'd expect a couple players to get 10-0 scores, so getting the bye can be helpful for your score but it would be very unusual if it put you at the top. In round one of this tournament, a couple of players did get 10-0 scores (Dourprize and Dorrin), but then their team's overall scores were brought back towards the middle because of some below 5s by teammates. Thus the impact of the bye score is much more pronounced than it would have been in a singles event.

Please note though this is not a criticism of any team including yours Chilligan - in fact it wasn't even your team I was talking about. Chaos Shanghied's terrific performance in round 2 shows you won't have just coasted to victory on a bye if you do eventually win the tournament.

But in my opinion a look at the way team events create tighter, closer scorelines makes a case for a different approach to byes than just giving three players 8-2 each round.

For example, the team with the bye achieved the 3rd highest score in round 2. The value of the 8-2 is probably amplified by how the rest of the games even out as almost all teams take both wins and losses.

I think your numbers are off. We had the highest score in round 1 (because of the bye), then we went against team #2 and we still got the highest total score of 27 in round 2.

The difference is because I was talking about the team with the bye in round 2 ( Objectionable Content) , rather than round 1 (your team, Chaos Shanghied).

If we look at round 1 as well, it goes even further towards proving my point.

In round 1, the highest score was achieved by the team with a Bye ( Chaos Shanghied scored 24 from 8-2 8-2 8-2) with the second place being First Time Vassalers and Suckitimps with 21. That's an even clearer demonstration of the impact of an 8-2 bye in a team tournament.

At a singles tournament with this amount of players you'd expect a couple players to get 10-0 scores, so getting the bye can be helpful for your score but it would be very unusual if it put you at the top. In round one of this tournament, a couple of players did get 10-0 scores (Dourprize and Dorrin), but then their team's overall scores were brought back towards the middle because of some below 5s by teammates. Thus the impact of the bye score is much more pronounced than it would have been in a singles event.

Please note though this is not a criticism of any team including yours Chilligan - in fact it wasn't even your team I was talking about. Chaos Shanghied's terrific performance in round 2 shows you won't have just coasted to victory on a bye if you do eventually win the tournament.

But in my opinion a look at the way team events create tighter, closer scorelines makes a case for a different approach to byes than just giving three players 8-2 each round.

Concur, even for singles but team tournament is a different beast. This is not aimed at you Biggs but maybe something worth considering in future Team Tournaments.

SUCKITIMPS vs Hammers of Kuat

Truthiness vs. Onca

Thanosazlin vs. Clontroper5

Maturin vs. Pilot

I looked at some data from 2 tournaments ago (something I already had in a spreadsheet) and the average margin per game was around 3 (2.9) on wins.

Interestingly in this tournament, the person offered as tribute has won all but once , something I find highly surprising. (I'm not counting Truthiness' bye.) Though one was a 5-5 in the first round, out of 9 games, and tied or higher than the other win if the teams split the other two games (5 times). In the 3 cases of all wins, the margins were lower. Of those 20 other games, 13 of them have been won by the team that gave tribute. (Overall, that makes it in games played, 21-8)

The idea seemed to have been 1 bad match and 2 goods for the lower team, and while it somewhat matches the pattern, of the lower bid having 2 better matchups (Expected 20-10), those seem to be coming in the opposite place from where they seem to belong.

Never fear, we plan to add 3 to that -8, this round, and restore balance to the force.