Tomax vs. Rhymer?

I'm pretty excited about the prospects of Vessery fired Tractor Beam support for Ordnance. I'm currently using Ryhmer in a support role in my squad in lieu of unreleased cards. I've used him to complement Fel in some of my older squads to good effect. I'll report back how he preforms on Sunday.

So, I've actually run the stealth Rhymer with proton rockets. It's super fun! I run VI, EM, stealth and prokets. One of two things tend to happen: Opponents try to take him off the board first (At ps9, he usually still gets his shot) or they avoid his arc like the plague. He can (And has) one shot a number of end game aces. If he manages to make it to the end game, a ship with a 5k, barrel roll, and ps9 is hard to kill, especially if he somehow still has his stealth.

APT Rhymer? You'll get frustrated after a few "TL but no focus" situations, and depressed after you do the math and discover that with crackshot and chimps, Tomax Bren with concussion missiles basically does (4*50%)+3 hits (up to a maximum total of 5), so he's basically sporting long-range, easy to use APT's. And is cheaper, too

This is pretty damning. You only really care about 5 dice when you need to overcome high agility + tokens. Homing Missile takes care of one token, and Crack Shot might as well be an extra damage. Throw in that it has better range, and is cheaper, and it's even harder to justify Rhymer.

Yes, but Rhymer has PS 9 with VI. You hand the Soontir player initiative and he can't arc dodge you reactively. I'd rather have the smaller range 1-2 area without being arc dodged reactively than the larger range 2-3 area at PS 8.

I see what you're saying though. Why not both?

Rhymer with VI, EM, APT, LRS

Tomax Bren with Crackshot, EM, Homing Missiles, LRS

Delta Squadron Defender with X7 and TIE MK II as a blocker

97 points, to seal the deal on initiative. If you catch a Decimator with both Tomax and Rhymer it's just 9 auto damage. Soontir cannot easily dodge 5 hits, or 4 with crackshot that deny evade tokens. Regenerators are just ******, albeit VI Poe is PS 10 but he's not very reactive with just boost.

The problem with this squad is that ordnance being good might change the meta so much that you don't see many aces anymore, and this squad may not be good in that meta, HOWEVER, a 6 Missile Bandit swarm just automatically losing 2 Z's turn 3 before they can fire may make it pretty good. Soontir will stay around though.

You can kind of just, "Aaaaaaand it's gone" to an entire Y-Wing or B-Wing with these. Z-s and TIEs just autodie, although a full swarm of 8 would hard counter this list as you can kill 4 of them automatically and then you're left with a Defender and 2 TIE Fighters, albeit one has perpetual Crackshot. Better kill Rage Youngster fast lol.

Who'd a thought a few months ago we could be discussing dual TIE Bomber ace squads even a tiny bit seriously.

I had minor success with

Rhymer-PTL, APT, EM

Redline-Plasma Torps, EM

Maarek-ATC X1 Predator

Even plasma torpedoes are nasty from Redline (and I find PTL almost a must include on APT rhymer

Rhymer would be useful if FFG would errata him to cost 23 points.

IMHO Rhymer is the most overcosted pilot in x wing. I love him, but compare with Oicun and it is...gold plated.

Guidance chips, perhaps, will help him...but still too much points. Bomber loaded = Milenium Falcon. Bufffff...

Play Rhymer a lot casual. Only

If Advanced Homing Missiles had been something really horrific, it might have saved Rhymer in wave 7. If it had it's current point cost, 3 red dice, and range limitations, but instead of doing its current damage card, it was like an Autoblaster, allowing no dice or tokens to be spent against it, it might have amounted to something. Rhymer would have been a nasty, but expensive, ace hunter, and everybody else might have actually considered taking it just to force certain ships out of Range 2.

'Slim Rhymer'

Rhymer 26

Predator 3

Cluster Missiles 4

Extra Munitions 2

35 Points - still too fat. You can't really get him 'slim'. Guidance Chips are useful here.

Completely outmatched by Soontir for the same 35 points.

For 32 points though this would be an option.

'Fat Rhymer'

Rhymer 26

Push the Limit 3

Advanced Proton Torpedos 6

Advanced Homing Missiles 3

Extra Munitions 2

MKII Engines 1

41 points - thats 6,8 points per hull point ... now we are takling about fat.

This Rhymer could do a lot of nasty things ... but most probably he will die first.

You could get rid of the MKII to drop him to 40 points and fill the list with 5 Tie Fighters.

Guidance Chips instead would add only a little.

Still, for 40 Points I think Whisper is so much better that it hurts.

'Crit Rhymer'

Rhymer 26

Veteran Instincts 1

Advanced Homing Missiles 3

Proton Bombs 5

Extra Munitions 2

37 Points - still very expensive, but dropping Proton Bombs with PS9 is ace.

This Rhymer ignores shields as long he has munitions.

Every time I tried him my opponent came with an Imperial list with no shields at all - in this case he is less useful.

Still, this is my favorite version of Rhymer. I only wished he was only 23 points base cost, so I could go with a Hull Upgrade or even 2 x AHM (with Guidance Chips) for the same 37 points.

If Advanced Homing Missiles had been something really horrific, it might have saved Rhymer in wave 7. If it had it's current point cost, 3 red dice, and range limitations, but instead of doing its current damage card, it was like an Autoblaster, allowing no dice or tokens to be spent against it, it might have amounted to something. Rhymer would have been a nasty, but expensive, ace hunter, and everybody else might have actually considered taking it just to force certain ships out of Range 2.

The problem with AHM's is that they're seemingly designed to be anti-ace, however aces have the easiest time dodging range 2 and just dodging the actual attack in addition to the low PS TL acquisition problem. You have to actually hit Soontir first.

We already had good options for 3 point missiles. If Advanced Homing Missiles costed something ridiculous like 8-10 points but were just an autoblaster version of Homing Missiles, I'd use them in a heartbeat.

I actually think AHM were actually designed to be anti-pancake. The idea, I think, was to slap an early crit on one to slow it down. Certainly 3 dice can't really be considered anti-ace in any way.

Yeah. I don't like AHMs. I've tried them on Rhymer before and they are pretty unreliable. Maybe if they didn't allow evades to be spend like Homing Missiles they might be better. I ran him against Whisper before and actually got a shot on him. I had a good roll too. 3 hits. Of course the Phantom rolled two evades and had a **** evade token. They are way too situational.

I am excited to run this squad:

Who'd a thought a few months ago we could be discussing dual TIE Bomber ace squads even a tiny bit seriously.

we didn't even have two Tie Bomber aces to discuss

Who'd a thought a few months ago we could be discussing dual TIE Bomber ace squads even a tiny bit seriously.

we didn't even have two Tie Bomber aces to discuss

I've always thought if they would have swapped abilities between Rhymer and Jonus and made the reroll ability affect all friendly ships at range 1 we would have had two named bombers that were worth their points.

A 27 point PS7 that can reroll two of his own reds on secondary weapon attacks and also give those rerolls to allies at range 1 would have been worth the heavy tax on his ability. Even if you didn't bring any other ships with secondary weapons, he'd still be worthwhile.

22 points for a PS 6 that can change the range on his ordnance seems about right as well.

Either of those ships could have been the only Bomber or worked well in a a larger squad of Bombers.

I actually think AHM were actually designed to be anti-pancake. The idea, I think, was to slap an early crit on one to slow it down. Certainly 3 dice can't really be considered anti-ace in any way.

Which is funny because the new damage deck is catered to 60 point pancakes, so it's not really all that crucial to get an early crit in. If the missiles costed a point more and didn't cancel their damage, and THEN dealt a faceup they'd be alright.

But I'd rather just deal 3 shields to a Decimator than get most of the new damage deck crits on one.

new damage deck isn't really catered to anyone, it just doesn't have spikey BS in it that can either cripple a ship or do nothing more than a face-down card

of course, they kinda kept some spikiness with the bull major explosion and that insultingly weak "no straight maneuvers, then flip card facedown" card, so eh

anyway, AHM I don't really think is anti-anything apart from lucky shots on corran; maybe with Boba crew? Crits are a whole lot of added RNG on top of the normal red/green crap you have to deal with.

of course, they kinda kept some spikiness with the bull major explosion and that insultingly weak "no straight maneuvers, then flip card facedown" card, so eh

I liked the change from Minor Explosion to Major Explosion. Minor Explosion was just a crappier Direct Hit!. Major Explosion trades Direct Hit's guaranteed second point of damage for a chance of getting a second crit through.

I agree with you about Shaken Pilot. It would have been a good crit that forced interesting choices if an action had to be spent to turn it facedown.

Killed a full health b wing in two shots with AHM rhymer last time i played him. First one a direct hit and the second one finished him off.

Had him kitted out with PTL, AHM , conner net and EM. Did ok, but died after taking 4 hits after a complete blank dice evade roll.

new damage deck isn't really catered to anyone, it just doesn't have spikey BS in it that can either cripple a ship or do nothing more than a face-down card

of course, they kinda kept some spikiness with the bull major explosion and that insultingly weak "no straight maneuvers, then flip card facedown" card, so eh

anyway, AHM I don't really think is anti-anything apart from lucky shots on corran; maybe with Boba crew? Crits are a whole lot of added RNG on top of the normal red/green crap you have to deal with.

The change from Minor to Major Explosion was a good one IMO. Minor Explosion was just a poor man's Direct Hit.

The one that gives you a stress for doing a white manuever is a dead draw on a TIE Interceptor. OH NO SOONTIR HAS TO DO A GREEN HARD 2!

The 'all of the damage cards from now on are face up' seems to always be dealt on a ship that ends up with 1 health left, and when it gets dealt on something like a Decimator it immediately gets flipped down. IMO it should be forced to last for a turn or two.

The damage deck was never an issue, just whiny babies butt mad that they aren't autowinning hard enough with HLC Outrider Dash.

new damage deck isn't really catered to anyone, it just doesn't have spikey BS in it that can either cripple a ship or do nothing more than a face-down card

of course, they kinda kept some spikiness with the bull major explosion and that insultingly weak "no straight maneuvers, then flip card facedown" card, so eh

anyway, AHM I don't really think is anti-anything apart from lucky shots on corran; maybe with Boba crew? Crits are a whole lot of added RNG on top of the normal red/green crap you have to deal with.

Not statiscally relevant but let me share some love for AHM on Mr.Stele. it just took me to SC final

Out of interest, do people think Ryemer would be better if he was in a punisher instead of a standard bomber?

Out of interest, do people think Ryemer would be better if he was in a punisher instead of a standard bomber?

for the same price? yes

otherwise redline kicks his ass

The 'all of the damage cards from now on are face up' seems to always be dealt on a ship that ends up with 1 health left, and when it gets dealt on something like a Decimator it immediately gets flipped down. IMO it should be forced to last for a turn or two.

The damage deck was never an issue, just whiny babies butt mad that they aren't autowinning hard enough with HLC Outrider Dash.

Usually, you just post bitter, hyperbolic nonsense, and I can ignore it. But sometimes--just occasionally--you rise above your posting history. At those times, you're capable of a level of ignorance that's so confident, and at the same time so obviously free of even a moment's thought, that it's literally breathtaking. I can't even debunk it; I can't bring myself to break something so beautiful and so innocent.

Out of interest, do people think Ryemer would be better if he was in a punisher instead of a standard bomber?

for the same price? yes

otherwise redline kicks his ass

Hmm, interesting question. No VI, but he'd be able to cluster missile out to range 3. With FCS he wouldn't be able to modify the first CM shot with TL like Redline can, but FCS Cluster Missiles at range 3 mane

Also, Bombers are not very durable. They're crit sponges, not sure on the Mathwing but they should be roughly equivalent to a non-IA T-65. Punishers have B-Wing health +1, so they can't be wiped as easily.

Yes, Rhymer would be better on a Punisher.