So is what your saying is that with very little experience with the list, and admittedly sub optimal piloting skills, you took down a tournament with the list???

Firstly, I never mentioned my experience level with the list, which is not clon levels, but a good dozen or so Vassal games with it plus careful study of clon's VWC games have given me a decent grasp of the list. I still have a long way to go to reach clon's precision with the list, but I would say that you are being overly dismissive and deliberately obtuse.

Secondly, while I did make mistakes and am not one to try and hide them, I also specifically mentioned how several opponents made mistakes that cost them severely (specifically highlighted in game two, for example) as well as called out good moves that were effective against the list, such as in game one where he presented me with an activation dilemma by jumping a speed 4 MC30 perfectly in to position to make me lose something despite my activation advantage.

Thirdly, I did specifically mention how close two of the games were, but not only that the tournament standings were very close: I won with a TP total of 23, second place had 22 and third had 19. That's hardly a runaway stomping of a victory, and there were many points where my second opponent could happily have performed far better (and this severely curtailed my score) but couldn't because of inexperience.

So no. I would not draw that conclusion and stand by my ending statement above: it is a punishing list that, when piloted precisely and with much practice is very powerful but certainly can be played against given equal amounts of precision and aforethought to entrap the Raiders/Demolisher.

Basically, don't be such an ass.

So is what your saying is that with very little experience with the list, and admittedly sub optimal piloting skills, you took down a tournament with the list???

Firstly, ...

...don't be such an ass.

Fixed that for you. Lighten up, Francis.

I read his statement as one of incredulity, with a sense that there is respect for the strength of the list, even in relatively inexperienced hands.

Lighten up, Francis.

I mean, who doesn't love some random poster demeaning a close win victory from the comfort of their armchair on the basis that I only win because of the list, and not numerous, intricate factors in each individual game.

Unfortunately, - due to the very factor of the internet itself - you know nothing about the Poster, as he knows nothing about you... Its hard to take things and take such a definitive stance one way or another in any text-based reaction.

For example, I know the poster personally - I also know that I gave him, effectively, his first game of Armada last weekend , so yes, there is quite a bit of incredulty involved... Trying to understand which way it is.

There are a lot of snide, sarcastic, downright assholistic people on these forums... I'm one of them. The single biggest suggestion I can always give is to always take everything on the Joking Side.

Even if it was intended to be a Snide Remark, you rob it of all Power over you by doing so.

If you're chuckling at everything, you're not stressing about everything....

... I give this as the best solid advice as I can on these Forums... Too many times I've had rules discussions or even just offhand comments that have landed me abusive PMs that I've had to sort out with FFG admin - which, honestly, is not fun.

So always try to look on the sarcastic side, rather than the offensive side

Unfortunately, - due to the very factor of the internet itself - you know nothing about the Poster, as he knows nothing about you... Its hard to take things and take such a definitive stance one way or another in any text-based reaction.

For example, I know the poster personally - I also know that I gave him, effectively, his first game of Armada last weekend , so yes, there is quite a bit of incredulty involved... Trying to understand which way it is.

There are a lot of snide, sarcastic, downright assholistic people on these forums... I'm one of them. The single biggest suggestion I can always give is to always take everything on the Joking Side.

Even if it was intended to be a Snide Remark, you rob it of all Power over you by doing so.

If you're chuckling at everything, you're not stressing about everything....

... I give this as the best solid advice as I can on these Forums... Too many times I've had rules discussions or even just offhand comments that have landed me abusive PMs that I've had to sort out with FFG admin - which, honestly, is not fun.

So always try to look on the sarcastic side, rather than the offensive side

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I need more like buttons

So did anyone ultimately figure out of clontroper5 is a highlander? Or his list a highlander? Do any of them experience the Quickening is what I need to know.

Why is it that people make it so easy to plug my new favorite list. . .

Lyraeus I'm starting to think that your list is running for office. It's like the campaign ads...

So did anyone ultimately figure out of clontroper5 is a highlander? Or his list a highlander? Do any of them experience the Quickening is what I need to know.

ummm, What?

And yes, today is a day where I ask the question, "Why am I bothering?"

And yes, today is a day where I ask the question, "Why am I bothering?"

So did anyone ultimately figure out of clontroper5 is a highlander? Or his list a highlander? Do any of them experience the Quickening is what I need to know.

ummm, What?

It is a straight forward question. Are either you or your list either Christopher Lambert or Clancy Brown?

So did anyone ultimately figure out of clontroper5 is a highlander? Or his list a highlander? Do any of them experience the Quickening is what I need to know.

ummm, What?

It is a straight forward question. Are either you or your list either Christopher Lambert or Clancy Brown?

So did anyone ultimately figure out of clontroper5 is a highlander? Or his list a highlander? Do any of them experience the Quickening is what I need to know.

ummm, What?

It is a straight forward question. Are either you or your list either Christopher Lambert or Clancy Brown?

hmmm, I do not know these people

So is what your saying is that with very little experience with the list, and admittedly sub optimal piloting skills, you took down a tournament with the list???

I took Skycake's comment as a swipe at the detractors, "See, even a noob can win with this list, the critics don't know what they're talking about!" I take that meaning because I'm one of those critics. :\

But pilot admits that to do as well as he did, he's studied Clon's strategy to have an idea of how it's supposed to work. I think this is advantageous because I'm thinking the Raider needs a different mindset to fly than most other ships. It's close to Gladiator mentality of closing and brawling, but it's even more extreme then that because you must get into close range when you charge.

So did anyone ultimately figure out of clontroper5 is a highlander? Or his list a highlander? Do any of them experience the Quickening is what I need to know.

Caldias I think is referring to the TV show of the same name from the 90s. Obviously it's not popular enough with this crowd for anyone else to really understand what he's talking about.

Skill trumps list. If you study, practice, and understand your list you will do very well.

So is what your saying is that with very little experience with the list, and admittedly sub optimal piloting skills, you took down a tournament with the list???

I took Skycake's comment as a swipe at the detractors, "See, even a noob can win with this list, the critics don't know what they're talking about!" I take that meaning because I'm one of those critics. :\

But pilot admits that to do as well as he did, he's studied Clon's strategy to have an idea of how it's supposed to work. I think this is advantageous because I'm thinking the Raider needs a different mindset to fly than most other ships. It's close to Gladiator mentality of closing and brawling, but it's even more extreme then that because you must get into close range when you charge.

So did anyone ultimately figure out of clontroper5 is a highlander? Or his list a highlander? Do any of them experience the Quickening is what I need to know.

Caldias I think is referring to the TV show of the same name from the 90s. Obviously it's not popular enough with this crowd for anyone else to really understand what he's talking about.

T.V. show? Jesus, I am old.

I indeed was referring to Highlander, but also poking general fun at this thread, good naturedly. The idea of any one list being immortal or invincible is absurd, as is the idea of any one player being unbeatable. I think clon has a solid list and is a solid player, but that does not mean the game is broken or anything is a win button.

So me and my friend were talking about a Rebel build that might do well against this. And he mentioned something I have not seen mentioned here yet: Tractor Beams.

Faction: Rebel Alliance Points: 395/400 Commander: Admiral Ackbar

Assault Objective: Advanced Gunnery Defense Objective: Fire Lanes Navigation Objective: Minefields

Assault Frigate Mark II B (72 points) - Intel Officer ( 7 points) - Gunnery Team ( 7 points) - Phylon Q7 Tractor Beams ( 6 points) [ flagship ] MC80 Command Cruiser (106 points) - Admiral Ackbar ( 38 points) - Home One ( 7 points) - Intel Officer ( 7 points) - Engine Techs ( 8 points) - Phylon Q7 Tractor Beams ( 6 points) - Slaved Turrets ( 6 points) Assault Frigate Mark II B (72 points) - Intel Officer ( 7 points) - Gunnery Team ( 7 points) - Phylon Q7 Tractor Beams ( 6 points) 3 A-Wing Squadrons ( 33 points)

I would probably want to replace slaved with XI7 or Heavy turbo's just because if you do get the one game where someone gives you Adv Gunnery you will give it to the MC80 (it will never happen but can dream)

I wonder if my usual list would do well here, it feels like it would, but having never played anyone outside of my own group i have no idea how good of a player I really am. I've been focusing on maximum ships/first turn since I started playing and very rarely take any upgrades:

general list
Author: elric0509

Faction: Rebel Alliance

Points: 373/400

Commander: Admiral Ackbar

Assault Objective: Advanced Gunnery
Defense Objective: Fire Lanes
Navigation Objective: Dangerous Territory

Assault Frigate Mark II B (72 points)

CR90 Corvette A (44 points)

[ flagship ] MC80 Command Cruiser (106 points)
- Admiral Ackbar ( 38 points)

MC30c Scout Frigate (69 points)

CR90 Corvette A (44 points)

I'll make a note here that I attended a store championship yesterday and one of the players ran the Clonetrooper5 build. Out of 9 people, he didn't place in top 4. I know it's just once instance of this, but it isn't a guaranteed win in my area at least.

I'll make a note here that I attended a store championship yesterday and one of the players ran the Clonetrooper5 build. Out of 9 people, he didn't place in top 4. I know it's just once instance of this, but it isn't a guaranteed win in my area at least.

I've been playing around with 5-small-ship Imperial builds since wave 2 came out (usually with Ozzel, sometimes with Screed) and clon's list kind of gave me the final push to make a few changes to lists I'd been using previously. I'll say from having used a list inspired by it that you are on the razor's edge. There is little room for mistakes due to how fragile your ships are. You need to use maneuvering and order of activations to keep your ships safe and control your opponent's options by manipulating his order of activations.

Or in short: it is extremely hard to just netlist this fleet and do well. You need a lot of practice with it.

I'll make a note here that I attended a store championship yesterday and one of the players ran the Clonetrooper5 build. Out of 9 people, he didn't place in top 4. I know it's just once instance of this, but it isn't a guaranteed win in my area at least.

Excellent. I always love copycats, especially with a list like this that has a high skill cap. The copycat is never as good as the original, and if you don't fly this list perfectly, you're going to get punished very badly.

I'll make a note here that I attended a store championship yesterday and one of the players ran the Clonetrooper5 build. Out of 9 people, he didn't place in top 4. I know it's just once instance of this, but it isn't a guaranteed win in my area at least.

Excellent. I always love copycats, especially with a list like this that has a high skill cap. The copycat is never as good as the original, and if you don't fly this list perfectly, you're going to get punished very badly.

Don't tell Clon this but that's what really impressed me about his Vassal WC win. He had to fly those blasted ships near perfect throughout. Any big mistakes and he would have been punished.

Impressive. Most Impressive.

Fair point, add tractors to my defiance build.

(I have other changes too, but they are corvette alterations that are personnel taste.)

I'll make a note here that I attended a store championship yesterday and one of the players ran the Clonetrooper5 build. Out of 9 people, he didn't place in top 4. I know it's just once instance of this, but it isn't a guaranteed win in my area at least.

Excellent. I always love copycats, especially with a list like this that has a high skill cap. The copycat is never as good as the original, and if you don't fly this list perfectly, you're going to get punished very badly.

Don't tell Clon this but that's what really impressed me about his Vassal WC win. He had to fly those blasted ships near perfect throughout. Any big mistakes and he would have been punished.

Impressive. Most Impressive.

This is really true. In our game, clon brought a couple of raiders to speed one. A turn or two later, I take front arc red shots at two of them. If he had stayed at speed two, those are at medium range of an ISD 2's front arc. Very legit chance if that happens, they both get vaped, and the game is suddenly very, very different.

Clon's demolisher is pretty easy to use effectively, but making those raiders work requires a real understanding of how armada plays out. Low skill admirals will get slammed using his list.

Nine pages talking about this list? That's quite the

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... Clon Legacy

I'll be heading down to the FLGS this afternoon. I never play Empire. I don't even own a Raider. Equipment permitting, I'll try and convince everyone to lend me enough plastic to run this crazy beast. If I can win with it, it's unstoppable.