I tell you this, it's not just the guaranteed 1 damage card its the guaranteed 1 crit that i like about APTs.

Not a lot of vessels limp away from double crits well even with their shields up. The obstruction to the vessels effectiveness can be extreme.

I'm sure you could do some double arc damage math on it but how do you give a number to a critical ruining the effectiveness of a vessel. For instance give ruptured engine to a small vessel and you've ruined it, or give depowered armament to most rebel craft and you've nerfed its kite-ing ability. Now try any two crits!

There is also the fact that getting two structural damage cards can end CR90s or Raiders regardless of their shields or the rest of your cumulative damage. 5pts to always land a crit is a steal.

Edit: When i say Crit i mean face up damage card.

Someone playing this build went 0-3 at our store championship. He ended up dead last I think. He had some close games, but at the very least, it proves that it's not just a netlist it and win. I don't think anything in this game is truly overpowered.

Achilles?

Fleet 920 (400/400)

==================

Nebulon-B Frigate: Nebulon-B Escort Frigate (57 + 30)

+ General Rieekan (30)

Nebulon-B Frigate: Nebulon-B Escort Frigate (57)

Nebulon-B Frigate: Nebulon-B Escort Frigate (57 + 7)

+ Turbolaser Reroute Circuits (7)

Nebulon-B Frigate: Nebulon-B Escort Frigate (57 + 7)

+ Turbolaser Reroute Circuits (7)

Nebulon-B Frigate: Nebulon-B Escort Frigate (57 + 7)

+ Turbolaser Reroute Circuits (7)

Nebulon-B Frigate: Nebulon-B Escort Frigate (57 + 7)

+ Turbolaser Reroute Circuits (7)

Depending on how well you support the attack he may even slow to speed 1-2, give you a side arc shot the Engine Tech to medium range.

Actually he could not do this, assume the "the" before Engine Tech is suppose to be a "then". He couldn't use Engine Tech after shooting to move to medium range. Engine Tech can only be used after a Manuever, because of the keyword "after" in it's effect description.

Actually he could not do this, assume the "the" before Engine Tech is suppose to be a "then". He couldn't use Engine Tech after shooting to move to medium range. Engine Tech can only be used after a Manuever, because of the keyword "after" in it's effect description.

And demolisher lets you attack after a Maneuver. Because both effects happen after a Maneuver, you as the player get to choose which order they Resolve.

This allows you to Shoot, Maneuver, Shoot, and then Engine Techs. OR Shoot, Maneuver, Engine Techs, Shoot....

Its your call if you've got it set up.

Depending on how well you support the attack he may even slow to speed 1-2, give you a side arc shot the Engine Tech to medium range.

Actually he could not do this, assume the "the" before Engine Tech is suppose to be a "then". He couldn't use Engine Tech after shooting to move to medium range. Engine Tech can only be used after a Manuever, because of the keyword "after" in it's effect description.

Because both have the same trigger "after" they both trigger and can happen in either order

::throws Shruikens at ClonTroper5 from the shadows::


... That's how you beat him, people...

... by Beating him.

... With a Baseball Bat.

::throws Shruikens at ClonTroper5 from the shadows::

... That's how you beat him, people... ... by Beating him. ... With a Baseball Bat.

NOT BASEBALL BATS!!!

I'm MEEEELTING!!

Something that occurred to me today was the possible limitations on meatspace tournament play with clontroper5's list just due to brain burn. If you're playing every now and then in installments on Vassal, I wouldn't think it would be a problem but imagine having to pilot something this unforgiving in a 3 or 4 round tournament. Sooner or later most of us would be bound to make a crucial mistake, I would think.

I've seen similar issues with other "brain intensive" builds/factions in other miniatures games I've played - they can do extremely well in one-off games but can suffer over the course of a day-long event just due to the mental work fatiguing you much worse than easier lists and the implementation being so dependent on outplaying the other guy for its survival/success. I'd be curious to see what clontroper thinks about that, though.

Here is my list Idea
1. CR90 Corellian Corvette B - General Dodonna - Engineering Team (64)

2. CR90 Corellian Corvette B - Engineering Team - Ion Cannon Batteries (49)

3. CR90 Corellian Corvette B - Engineering Team - Ion Cannon Batteries (49)

4. CR90 Corellian Corvette B - Engineering Team - Ion Cannon Batteries (49)

5. CR90 Corellian Corvette B - Engineering Team - Ion Cannon Batteries (49)

6. CR90 Corellian Corvette B - Engineering Team - Ion Cannon Batteries (49)

7. CR90 Corellian Corvette B - Engineering Team - Ion Cannon Batteries (49)

1 • A-wing Squadron (11)
2 • B-wing Squadron (14)
3 • B-wing Squadron (14)

Points total 400

Something that occurred to me today was the possible limitations on meatspace tournament play with clontroper5's list just due to brain burn.....

Doesn't matter, the question is what can you do to win against the list, if you meet it in round 1 you may not get the mistake you need. Even in round three the player may have topped up on red cordial and be perfectly OK for one more game. Besides wouldn't both players be in the same boat with regards to their mental alacrity as the day progresses?

Actually he could not do this, assume the "the" before Engine Tech is suppose to be a "then". He couldn't use Engine Tech after shooting to move to medium range. Engine Tech can only be used after a Manuever, because of the keyword "after" in it's effect description.

And demolisher lets you attack after a Maneuver. Because both effects happen after a Maneuver, you as the player get to choose which order they Resolve.

This allows you to Shoot, Maneuver, Shoot, and then Engine Techs. OR Shoot, Maneuver, Engine Techs, Shoot....

Its your call if you've got it set up.

Depending on how well you support the attack he may even slow to speed 1-2, give you a side arc shot the Engine Tech to medium range.

Actually he could not do this, assume the "the" before Engine Tech is suppose to be a "then". He couldn't use Engine Tech after shooting to move to medium range. Engine Tech can only be used after a Manuever, because of the keyword "after" in it's effect description.

incorrect

Because both have the same trigger "after" they both trigger and can happen in either order

My bad! I missed the next bullet point down regarding exactly that. Thanks for the clarification guys

Something that occurred to me today was the possible limitations on meatspace tournament play with clontroper5's list just due to brain burn.....

Doesn't matter, the question is what can you do to win against the list, if you meet it in round 1 you may not get the mistake you need.

Perhaps you interpreted my comment as "wait, hold it everybody, stop talking about ways to handle this fleet build altogether." If that is so, please have my assurances that is not the case. I'm very interested in seeing what becomes of this new trend and what counter-builds are considered strong against it. If anything, I'm very glad that it was specifically built to handle Ackbar and if anything it pushes Rebel builds away from the conga line strategy, which is often very dull.

Besides wouldn't both players be in the same boat with regards to their mental alacrity as the day progresses?

All players will not be in the same boat regarding their mental state as the day progresses. Simple but strong builds are a lot less mentally taxing than a build that relies on analyzing the game down to the millimeter to ensure survival. When you're using a build/fleet/army/whatever that uses distance and placement as its survival mechanism, you're effectively trying to get a leg up on your opponents who have invested points in survival by instead using careful play/brainpower for your defenses to give you an advantage by investing those "free points" in more offense. The problem is if I need to carefully consider all my moves because there's minimal room for error, I will suffer more mental attrition throughout the day than someone would with a build that is less demanding and more forgiving. This can often result in players with more skill-intensive builds flagging towards the end as they get tired and make more mistakes. I saw this a fair amount in Warmachine tournaments back in the day with the more skill-based builds (specifically referring to Circle Orboros, but other builds too) - they could do amazing things early on but the increased mental strain usually led to a crucial mistake or two towards the end against opponents who were relatively less worn out commanding more point and click builds.

Or to put it another way: assume you and I are both bicyclists in a race and otherwise are very similar in our athletic ability. I brought along some kind of black magic bicycle that goes 20% faster than anybody else's bike but requires 20% more effort to peddle to achieve those results. Initially, I'm going to absolutely overtake everybody else but over time the increased strain will take its toll. Chances are fairly good that the longer the race is, the less of an advantage that voodoo bike gives me, and you should overtake me later on. As the day progresses, we are not in the same boat due to the attrition rates we are experiencing on our different bikes.

Cr-90 (39)+ sw7 (5) x 4

Cr-90 (39)+ ion cannon blast (5) x4

Mon monthma or Gen. Rekein (sp)

Is my thought of a good swarm. I do have a fleet that I have built that seems to work ok different than this one but close.

I hate to ask a newb question. But can someone explain to me the Clonisher triple Tap? I understand the double tap. Where does the third come in?

I hate to ask a newb question. But can someone explain to me the Clonisher triple Tap? I understand the double tap. Where does the third come in?

I think that it's the same thing, it's just referring to two different elements.

The Double Tap is referring to activating last then immediately activating first on the next turn - being a double tap of activations.

The Triple Tap is referring to the number of attacks the ship is actually making: the first after moving during the first turn, the second and third during the activation during the second turn; three attacks, so triple tapping.

I hate to ask a newb question. But can someone explain to me the Clonisher triple Tap? I understand the double tap. Where does the third come in?

Its a Total of 3 Attacks.

The first attack is from the Demolisher after it has moved, as the Last activation of a Certain turn... Essentially, Demolisher waits and then pounces .

ANd then, because the Demolisher Player is first player, it then activates Demolisher at the start of the next turn,

It then gets its normal 2 attacks again...

Its two Activations (a Double-Tap of sorts, yes)... But its 3 Attacks, which is why its referring to the Triple-Tap there...

You could argue it is just a Double Tap... But when you compare it to the "Adar-varis Triple Tap", which incorporates 3 Attacks from a Single Squadron... The "Triple Tap" analogy fits.

I hate to ask a newb question. But can someone explain to me the Clonisher triple Tap? I understand the double tap. Where does the third come in?

Its a Total of 3 Attacks.

The first attack is from the Demolisher after it has moved, as the Last activation of a Certain turn... Essentially, Demolisher waits and then pounces .

ANd then, because the Demolisher Player is first player, it then activates Demolisher at the start of the next turn,

It then gets its normal 2 attacks again...

Its two Activations (a Double-Tap of sorts, yes)... But its 3 Attacks, which is why its referring to the Triple-Tap there...

You could argue it is just a Double Tap... But when you compare it to the "Adar-varis Triple Tap", which incorporates 3 Attacks from a Single Squadron... The "Triple Tap" analogy fits.

Ok thanks. That's how I understood the rules. In my mind that is a double tap. I was wondering if there was some mysterious way of getting another round of attacks before the defender fires back. It also makes sense to call it a triple tap since it is an attack from 3 hull zones.

Ok thanks. That's how I understood the rules. In my mind that is a double tap. I was wondering if there was some mysterious way of getting another round of attacks before the defender fires back. It also makes sense to call it a triple tap since it is an attack from 3 hull zones.

Not a worry. It is easy to see how it could be coined as both things, and when you're just trying to come into the lingo , it can be confusing... Hell, the amount of times I mess up on a rules discussion because I have coined a should instead of a must or vice-versa still boggles me

The real way to beat Clontrooper is this.

"Clon I bet you cant win the Team Vassal tourney without that Demolisher."

There, that was easy.

I played my first game where I took such a list and my opponent who normally takes a Demolisher list took a "normal" list.

His idea seemed quite interesting, he was moving his squadrons up to where I would be. Then getting some shots with what guessed right he would them shoot and move away. Those ships that didn't guess would them move in and try for the ship.

His list was: 2 MC80's Lead by Gam bel Iblis, with Boosted Comms, 8 A-Wings, Jan Ors and 2 HWKs

Try and withstand the wrath of Clon and you may end up looking like this.....

Or something like this anyway....

Let's just say you he isn't gonna want to rule the galaxy with you....

The good news is that Clon lost tonight on Vassal...although not with his famous list...he was playing 2 ISD + Demolishver vs 1 ISD + Demolisher + second Glad.

The good news is that Clon lost tonight on Vassal...although not with his famous list...he was playing 2 ISD + Demolishver vs 1 ISD + Demolisher + second Glad.

Additionally, reporting this only as it is relevant to the thread's title and not to rub it in, Clon's teammate lost his game using a very similar version of Clonisher-Glad, Glad, Raid, Raid, Raid, 2 Ties to a 4 ship Rebel fleet with 2 MC30s.

A major contributing factor was that he played someone from the Full Jar Jar team who had an identical initiative bid, and lost the roll of to go first, but it does show the list is not bulletproof.

The good news is that Clon lost tonight on Vassal...although not with his famous list...he was playing 2 ISD + Demolishver vs 1 ISD + Demolisher + second Glad.

Additionally, reporting this only as it is relevant to the thread's title and not to rub it in, Clon's teammate lost his game using a very similar version of Clonisher-Glad, Glad, Raid, Raid, Raid, 2 Ties to a 4 ship Rebel fleet with 2 MC30s.

A major contributing factor was that he played someone from the Full Jar Jar team who had an identical initiative bid, and lost the roll of to go first, but it does show the list is not bulletproof.

Although matt, we did say from jump if it doesnt go first it loses.