I've seen some dumb debates on the internet, but I think this thread takes the cake.

All I care about is what happens in real life with Mr Hot Dice, I wanna hear the rest of that story and I hope that the OP isn't run off by all the ridiculousness.

I've seen some dumb debates on the internet, but I think this thread takes the cake.

All I care about is what happens in real life with Mr Hot Dice, I wanna hear the rest of that story and I hope that the OP isn't run off by all the ridiculousness.

Agreed, I want to know what happens with the OP's situation.

Where'd you go OP?

When did we get invaded by wookies? Why Arnt they building the deathstar four.

...I honestly do not think that you are very bright.

Baaaah,

My degrees in archaeology suggest otherwise; however, in deference to your pompousness -

Continue thinking that you're superior.

Cheers

Baaa

Pompousness? That is an interesting word to be slung by a person who just cited his prestigious archaeology degree in a miniatures gaming forum.

But you still haven't cited that rule. Did you make it up?

I am board,

If I have 20 dice but only normal need 4-5 at most for a game if I perceive them to be rolling badly and switch them out mid game is that cheating?

@Rapture you seem to imply that it would be?

That depends. Are you switching your dice because the other dice that you have are more likely to produce a more desirable result? You are playing a game where the is supposed to be an equal likelihood of any one result occurring - this is why dice are used. It serves to make it fair for both players. If you are using dice that are more likely to produce a favorable outcome than your opponents dice, then what would you call it?

I am switching out the dice because I feel like they will be more likely to produce more desirable results yes.

I have no mathematical foundation for this feeling but it is why I am doing it.

As another example, in 40K/Fantasy/any roll to hit, then to wound game I will always use the dice that missed on my to hit roll for my to wound roll as they are now due a good roll.

This is due to the same feeling I have that they will be more likely to produce a more desirable result.

Cheating?

Kris

That depends on whether or not you are right. If you are wrong and no supernatural power is manipulating the result that your dice produce, then you are not cheating.

So, if your opponent purchased a set of dice from a shady guy on a corner and that shady guy promised that they were weighted to roll more hits than blanks, but they actually were just standard dice, would he be cheating? Just like you, he is:

1) Is switching out the dice because I feels like they will be more likely to produce more desirable results; and

2) Has no mathematical foundation for this feeling, but it is why he is doing it.

I have always used a definition of cheating that it occurs regardless of intent. It is not an indictment of one's character, only a word that means that the rules are being broken. Also, attempting to cheat and intending to cheat exist independently of actually breaking the rules

Honestly you're absolutely ridiculous. Asking for a quote while citing an "implyed rule" is insane. Youre sucking the fun out of the world. Anyone can substitute dice at any time. It's not cheating. It's called superstition. Heard of it?

What we need is a healthy dose of Geoff Engelstein of the Ludology podcast.

http://ludology.libsyn.com/gametek-classic-85-fair-dice

That was VERY informative

That guy is always very interesting.

I have always used a definition of cheating that it occurs regardless of intent.

Then you are wrong. Cheating implies and requires intent: you break the rules purposefully in order to gain an advantage. If you break the rules accidentally, and thereby gain an advantage, that does not mean you cheat.

Playing wrong due to ignorance =/= intentionally cheating.

I still want to know how the whole situation played out for the OP.

The best way to get the max amount of hits/evades is the shake, wiggle, and squiggle method.

*infomercial voice*

1.) Shake the dice in your hand.

2.) Wiggle your hand so that the dice fly out of your hand.

3.) Squiggles.

Shake wig shake wig wiggle wiggle squig!

-star wars holiday special part 2

I know I had a defective green die. The thing would come up blank almost every time I rolled it. I rolled it several times, and checked it visually a couple times. After looking at the die in question VERY carefully, under strong light, I discovered that the die was slightly malformed at one of the pyramid points where the four sides come together. Instead of a point, it was slightly flattened on two of the sides. That sucker went right into the trash.

So update on the dice situation.

Busted!!!!!

Our local genius x-rayed them at his work.

The cheater drilled small holes in the dice and inserted a small piece of metal rod. Then covered the hole with superglue and paint.

Needless to say, he's out of the group, and all the local tournament promoters have been given his name and picture.

In two other systems I played over the years (ancients and Flames of War) it was always a giveaway if you just scooped up dice and rolled the lot. and your opponent objected.

I make a point, if my dice are rolling hot, to let my opponent use them too.

After all, they are all red and green at the end of a game. As long as I have the same number as when I started, it shouldn't matter.

I know that my dice never went into dark places, so I rather keep mine. BUT switching either to just mine or just his dice sounds fine to me. I just would like to keep my "lucky" dice after the match for reasons ™.

Besides that, asking for fresh dice should be completely without any drama. Those dice are not casino grade by any means, it much more likely to get a pack of bad dice directly out of the package than someone actually bothering to cheat in x-wing imho. So taking and making those things personally is rather silly. Just switch dice when ask for and everyone should be happy. They are just dice, there many dice like yours, and there are tons of dice to use.

So update on the dice situation.

Busted!!!!!

Our local genius x-rayed them at his work.

The cheater drilled small holes in the dice and inserted a small piece of metal rod. Then covered the hole with superglue and paint.

Needless to say, he's out of the group, and all the local tournament promoters have been given his name and picture.

Has he been using loaded dice at tournaments recently? If so, and he's won anything, you should also let FFG's organized play group know.

It's easy to intentionally or even accidentally make dice loaded. Low temperature ovens and very hot cars with the dice container in direct sunlight work equally well.

So update on the dice situation.

Busted!!!!!

Our local genius x-rayed them at his work.

The cheater drilled small holes in the dice and inserted a small piece of metal rod. Then covered the hole with superglue and paint.

Needless to say, he's out of the group, and all the local tournament promoters have been given his name and picture.

And see, this is the problem.

According to some here on the forum, his dice should not have been checked... his integrity should never have been questioned.

Simply because "he might have just bought a ton of dice and tested to see which ones rolled best and that's totally ok and legit".

If nobody had done this, this guy would still have been playing with his loaded dice.

So update on the dice situation.

Busted!!!!!

Our local genius x-rayed them at his work.

The cheater drilled small holes in the dice and inserted a small piece of metal rod. Then covered the hole with superglue and paint.

Needless to say, he's out of the group, and all the local tournament promoters have been given his name and picture.

Perhaps edit the original post to include it there.

I do find it strange that he agreed to have them X-Rayed when he knew that it would bust him., but its a good thing for the community.

Remember to contact FFG as well. He sounds like a candidate for their banlist.

So update on the dice situation.

Busted!!!!!

Our local genius x-rayed them at his work.

The cheater drilled small holes in the dice and inserted a small piece of metal rod. Then covered the hole with superglue and paint.

Needless to say, he's out of the group, and all the local tournament promoters have been given his name and picture.

Perhaps edit the original post to include it there.

I do find it strange that he agreed to have them X-Rayed when he knew that it would bust him., but its a good thing for the community.

Remember to contact FFG as well. He sounds like a candidate for their banlist.

Ya I'm wondering this as well? How the heck did you get him to give you one of his dice?!

Giving a dice to be X-Ray? That post sounds super hokey to me. Sounds like bs

So update on the dice situation.

Busted!!!!!

Our local genius x-rayed them at his work.

The cheater drilled small holes in the dice and inserted a small piece of metal rod. Then covered the hole with superglue and paint.

Needless to say, he's out of the group, and all the local tournament promoters have been given his name and picture.

And see, this is the problem.

According to some here on the forum, his dice should not have been checked... his integrity should never have been questioned.

Simply because "he might have just bought a ton of dice and tested to see which ones rolled best and that's totally ok and legit".

If nobody had done this, this guy would still have been playing with his loaded dice.

Agreed, cheating and shady-play is already waaaay too common in X-Wing, and I've seen and heard about some absolute bull. As X-Wing continues to grow, and especially as it continues to draw in players from the sadder underbellies of competitive gaming (Magic/GW) it will only get worse.

Magic and Warhammer have long had horror stories of people cheating in clever (and not so clever) ways for years. FFG's own Conquest had a cheater in the finals at the US Nationals, despite the whole damned thing being filmed. Regionals two years in X-Wing busted a couple of players who had made the cut with TIE Swarms having manipulated their damage decks by replacing all the Direct Hits. Well-known players have cheated on Vassal Tournament Games despite the games being spectated.

There are people who play this game and will get on planes and spend thousands of dollars to go to a half dozen US Regionals each year. It's pure naivete to think these people care enough to spend that much time and energy on seeking dice-based glory but yet they would never try and cheat or bend rules to their advantage. NOTE: I'm not saying all highly devoted competitive players are cheaters, the vast majority probably are not. But the thought of one of them cheating can't be inconceivable.

The only defense against this is a vigilance in preventing and punishing those who do cheat. The guy from the OP should have his name and his location made public, and his name and evidence submitted to Organized Play's ban list. Reputation is everything. If you're the kind of asshat that is going to cheat at games (thus defeating the entire purpose of even playing) you ought be permanently ostracized from the community. Plain and simple.

Yea, OP's story sounds BS, without an account of how they got this guy's dice to be investigated.

If the OP shares his name (and why not, he's a cheater that should be ostracized) then it will be more convincing.

But if it's just "uhh, yea, well guess what guys we caught him and we were right along, so there" and that's that, it carries a lot less credibility.



I have no doubts that members of the X-Wing community have tampered with their dice, but this story could use a little more context and evidence.

Too many holes in this story and I'm not talking about the ones in the "dice".

First off how did you get the dice?

Second why did you update this post after someone requested an update?

Third where is the pic of the x ray?

Also where is this located?

Thanks.

Too many holes in this story and I'm not talking about the ones in the "dice".

First off how did you get the dice?

Second why did you update this post after someone requested an update?

Third where is the pic of the x ray?

Also where is this located?

Thanks.

First off, him and me have been chatting via PM since I was curious and he was more or less avoiding this thread due to the direction it took.

So he told me about the circumstances of how they got the dice (although, he forgot to mention that bit here, presumably because he had just told me earlier).

Secondly, he updated the post because I PM'd him asking for an update.

Thirdly, why would he post x-ray pictures here? Why would there even be x-ray pictures? Not all x-ray machines require you to develop a picture, some are simply real-time x-ray machines. And especially if his friend who did the x-ray'ing did it at work (presumably using company machines to do private stuff, something that is usually frowned upon).

But sure, you're free to mistrust him.

However, if you go back through the thread, you'll see that the OP has no stake in this discussion.

He simply started the thread asking for how you can check if someone is playing with loaded dice, and if they should check in the first place.

The thread then devolved into a whole different creature.

EDIT: As for outing the guy, I don't know if its against the rules to "name and shame" people on these forums. I know it's a bannable offense on some other forums, so I wouldn't advice it unless you ask a moderator first.

EDIT 2: Now that I'm looking, I can't seem to find the forum rules anywhere :/ It's pretty late and I'm very tired, so if anyone has a link, please drop it here or PM me.

Giving a dice to be X-Ray? That post sounds super hokey to me. Sounds like bs

So update on the dice situation.

Busted!!!!!

Our local genius x-rayed them at his work.

The cheater drilled small holes in the dice and inserted a small piece of metal rod. Then covered the hole with superglue and paint.

Needless to say, he's out of the group, and all the local tournament promoters have been given his name and picture.

Perhaps edit the original post to include it there.

I do find it strange that he agreed to have them X-Rayed when he knew that it would bust him., but its a good thing for the community.

Remember to contact FFG as well. He sounds like a candidate for their banlist.

Ya I'm wondering this as well? How the heck did you get him to give you one of his dice?!

So update on the dice situation.

Busted!!!!!

Our local genius x-rayed them at his work.

The cheater drilled small holes in the dice and inserted a small piece of metal rod. Then covered the hole with superglue and paint.

Needless to say, he's out of the group, and all the local tournament promoters have been given his name and picture.

Perhaps edit the original post to include it there.

I do find it strange that he agreed to have them X-Rayed when he knew that it would bust him., but its a good thing for the community.

Remember to contact FFG as well. He sounds like a candidate for their banlist.

He didn't.

They replaced some of the dice with store-bought ones while he was in the bathroom. Not all of the dice, just enough to take some to measure for inaccuracies.

Turns out he was suddenly rolling average instead of his usual stellar rolls, which apparantly made him very upset.

Don't know when they decided to x-ray the dice, but I assume the guy he refers to as the "local genius" decided to do that on his own since they had only asked him to use his micrometer at work to check them out compared to "normal" dice.

If people require it, I can post the entire PM conversation here, with the OP's permission.

Not that it will help, since anyone can claim those PM's to be doctored.

EDIT: Should be noted that the "genius" works at a nuclear power station.

I might add that naming a person and accusing him of cheating may turn out to be an invasion of his privacy rights. It's not something you'd do lightly in the EU, especially as the site owner is responsible for what is posted.