I might add that naming a person and accusing him of cheating may turn out to be an invasion of his privacy rights. It's not something you'd do lightly in the EU, especially as the site owner is responsible for what is posted.

But the guy has gone to public events that are run for and by the community and broken very obvious (and sacred) rules to gaming. Having a functional and fun gaming community fundamentally requires that everyone be playing by the same rules, or else everyone involved is literally wasting their hard-earned time and money.

Scum like him don't ever deserve to play this game again except by the graces of those who choose to forgive him only after being informed about his past behavior, and community outing are the only tools we have to express and enforce our distaste for the violation of these rules. It's not like he's being fired or being put in prison, he's simply being shunned by a community that he has knowingly and maliciously wronged and defrauded.

Of course, if the claims of his cheating are untrue, than those fabricating the accusations would be subject to liable and slander, perhaps?

I'm no lawyer or legal expert, so what do others think?

So you think you caught a cheaters by stealing his stuff? Sounds legit. You definitely have a moral high ground to stand on. What a joke.

Dagonet, on 13 Mar 2016 - 4:36 PM, said:

I might add that naming a person and accusing him of cheating may turn out to be an invasion of his privacy rights. It's not something you'd do lightly in the EU, especially as the site owner is responsible for what is posted.

Giver me a break.

Company owns the site, creates the game, sponsors tournaments were this person is officially caught and proven to be cheating. He is exposed his name comes out and banned from playing at x wing official tournaments.

He both deserves this if this is true and has NO LEGAL right to try to cover his behavior. If this person is contacted and has no defense, and all the allegations are proven true by FFG then a life ban is appropriate and his name needs to be out so other stores can sanction him.

If the person wishes to pursue minor criminal complaint for someone taking his $8 worth of dice he has that right.

People also have the right to expose this *******.

I have a friend who is seriously lucky with dice. They are mine. People's luck runs in streaks. I alway rub his shoulder before playing. I usually roll hot for the first few turns. He is a magic troll.

Seriously, no one is weighting their dice. And it you insist people bring clear d6 to play with you, you can count me out of that group.

Fly casual.

As far as the 90-95% data goes. One of our members is a mathematical genius, he does work at a nuclear power station not far from here. He sat and watched this guy play several games over a month time frame, and recorded his rolls (he did it under the guise of writing a blog on tactics, which he did), he said that the probability of the number of hits/crits/evades this guy rolls is near impossible.

I like the idea of just telling him that we as a group are uncomfortable playing him with his current dice set, and that we feel that his dice may have manufacturing issues. He'll I'll even purchase a couple dice sets for him to replace his current ones.

He's been pretty gracious about letting us check out his dice, so there is a good chance he's not a cheater.

As far as the 90-95% goes, lol... loaded dice don't produce such extreme results so this is a fishing expedition of a post. Great fishing story...good one.

AdmiralNelson, on 13 Mar 2016 - 5:49 PM, said:

I have a friend who is seriously lucky with dice. They are mine. People's luck runs in streaks. I alway rub his shoulder before playing. I usually roll hot for the first few turns. He is a magic troll.

Seriously, no one is weighting their dice. And it you insist people bring clear d6 to play with you, you can count me out of that group.

Fly casual.

Very Very few people do. Not zero.

Loaded dice to not guarantee a win but skew the game ruining it for everyone.

Those that do and are exposed need to be shamed period.

If your not cheating you have NO REASON to defend cheaters.

Too many holes in this story and I'm not talking about the ones in the "dice".

First off how did you get the dice?

Second why did you update this post after someone requested an update?

Third where is the pic of the x ray?

Also where is this located?

Thanks.

First off, him and me have been chatting via PM since I was curious and he was more or less avoiding this thread due to the direction it took.

So he told me about the circumstances of how they got the dice (although, he forgot to mention that bit here, presumably because he had just told me earlier).

Secondly, he updated the post because I PM'd him asking for an update.

Thirdly, why would he post x-ray pictures here? Why would there even be x-ray pictures? Not all x-ray machines require you to develop a picture, some are simply real-time x-ray machines. And especially if his friend who did the x-ray'ing did it at work (presumably using company machines to do private stuff, something that is usually frowned upon).

But sure, you're free to mistrust him.

However, if you go back through the thread, you'll see that the OP has no stake in this discussion.

He simply started the thread asking for how you can check if someone is playing with loaded dice, and if they should check in the first place.

The thread then devolved into a whole different creature.

EDIT: As for outing the guy, I don't know if its against the rules to "name and shame" people on these forums. I know it's a bannable offense on some other forums, so I wouldn't advice it unless you ask a moderator first.

EDIT 2: Now that I'm looking, I can't seem to find the forum rules anywhere :/ It's pretty late and I'm very tired, so if anyone has a link, please drop it here or PM me.

Not sure where you got the mistrust from, just looking for more information. It seems odd though that you said you were pming him but had to ask for an update on this thread? Also theft is theft, no better then loaded dice. Also he did have a dog in the fight as he said this guy was in his group in the OP.

Finally with drill holes and refill in and paint you can usually detect them with a close inspection as the OP said they did. All you would have had to do was weigh them if there is metal inserted to affect the roll, unless he is skilled enough to hollow out the opposite side.

All I was looking for was more information as there were key pieces of info missing.

So you think you caught a cheaters by stealing his stuff? Sounds legit. You definitely have a moral high ground to stand on. What a joke.

You suggest any other way?

They had asked to inspect the die before and had not noticed anything out of the ordinary. Obviously it was well done or he wouldn't have been confident enough to let people inspect the die.

I have a friend who is seriously lucky with dice. They are mine. People's luck runs in streaks. I alway rub his shoulder before playing. I usually roll hot for the first few turns. He is a magic troll.

Seriously, no one is weighting their dice. And it you insist people bring clear d6 to play with you, you can count me out of that group.

Fly casual.

Seriously, you have no idea if people are weighting their dice or not.

I mean, just because nobody is doing it where you are playing, doesn't make it a universal truth.

I know people who cheat in Ludo. Hell, I even know people who cheat when playing against little kids.

Just because something never happened to you, doesn't mean it never happens at all.

I might add that naming a person and accusing him of cheating may turn out to be an invasion of his privacy rights. It's not something you'd do lightly in the EU, especially as the site owner is responsible for what is posted.

It's a private forum run by an american company. It's up to them what rules they choose to have.

Not sure where you got the mistrust from, just looking for more information. It seems odd though that you said you were pming him but had to ask for an update on this thread? Also theft is theft, no better then loaded dice. Also he did have a dog in the fight as he said this guy was in his group in the OP.

Finally with drill holes and refill in and paint you can usually detect them with a close inspection as the OP said they did. All you would have had to do was weigh them if there is metal inserted to affect the roll, unless he is skilled enough to hollow out the opposite side.

All I was looking for was more information as there were key pieces of info missing.

Well, the mistrust came out of the "too many holes" comment. Certainly made it seem like you didn't believe the OP in the slightest.

I asked for an update here at the same time as I asked for an update via PM. Because the OP had been silent a while. So when I got the reply by PM I asked him to update the thread too, so others could see.

And technically, it wasn't theft... they replaced his die with completely new die. So he didn't lose anything (if the die wasn't loaded).

As he said in the posts on these forums, they had inspected the die visually with the guys permission and found nothing. Obviously he did a good job of covering it up.

And how do you weigh the die without taking them away from the owner? Most people don't have precision scales lying around when playing the game, you know.

This whole thing is so easy to solve once and for all. Every player is required to use the players dice whom won initiative. If both players are using the same set of dice it lessons the chance someone would want to bring loaded or favored dice. FFG could easily fix this issue. I know, I've seen my far share of questionable dice.

Why in the hell would you guys suggest anyone go to all this trouble. If you think someone is cheating, don't play them. Boom. Done. Maybe he'll quit and sell all his stuff cheap.

All these calipers and measuring and pooling dice ideas are goofy.

Now this man understands the concept of "Fly Casual!"

There is a simple way to test loaded dice in a tournament.

1) Collect accused dice and roll them.

2) Then place small numbered stickers on the facing side shown. (Like the blue dots on the plastic bags for the ships/cards/bases)

3) Roll the dice ten times and record the number of times each numbered sticker shows up.

4) If any number sticker shows up 90% of the time, then that die is loaded.

4a) If it shows up 80% of the time, roll that die again 10 times and see it the combined total is 80% or more, then that die is loaded as well.

It doesn't happen because I know what I am talking about. I inderstand the process etc. it is a urban myth. The only way to really cheat at X-wing is to swap in dice in and out with extra hits of evades using slight of hand. You can carve out hits and evades with the right machines....not easy, but can be done. You can't load eight sided X-wing dice that come from only one company and have them pass inspection. Againl you could load them and then use slight of hand to get them out. But it they end up on the wrong side they look off. Loaded dice aren't auto....they just increase the odds. The eight side die it so small getting enough weight into the thing just isn't feasible.

Spread the myth if you want.

I can count cards and use slit of hand as well as van dam in blood sport. I practiced the coin trick and took plenty of lunch money growing up. It all just takes practice. I counted cards until a friend ended up frame and in jail for possession of a controlled substance planted in his hotel room. Since I imagine I don't like prison showers ai quite. I knew people who loaded dice for side craps games and that is a very dangerous deal. Seriously, just because I haven't seen a urologist I am smart enough to understand they don't exist...not because aliens don't exist but because the nearest star is 4.5 light years away and the aliens would have to be very close to make the trip. The Orion Nebula is something like 11,000k away. Aliens aren't going to waste 11,000 if somehow they can live 11,100 year just to say hello. Gosh, they would not even be able to figure out before the really really long trip (in our backyard) that people lived on this planet until 11k year from now when our radio ways hit them. Science supports the probability of alien life , just not in our small portion of the arm of our galaxy. Maybe in another arm, or further down the arm, or in a different galaxy but not within their lifespan and ability to travel light speed-- if that could even ever happen. 186,000 miles per second is light speed and it takes 4.5 years going that speed to get to the next star. Scientist haved kind tons of planets around other stars but nothing is within 10k of us.

So you have to come up with light speed ship. Ageless aliens, and the ability to magically see us from their neck of the woods which would have to be super close in terms of space distances

Yet people still believe in aliens and claim to see them.

People will still believe in c-wing loaded dice and claimed to have seen them--just don't believe them because while technically possible not probable.

Yes you could get some misfits with natural issues but there not going to alter the effect much and those that could would easly be spotted. The whole hollow area in the molding is bunk made up stuff.

Let's get back to reality.

I have a friend who is seriously lucky with dice. They are mine. People's luck runs in streaks. I alway rub his shoulder before playing. I usually roll hot for the first few turns. He is a magic troll.

Seriously, no one is weighting their dice. And it you insist people bring clear d6 to play with you, you can count me out of that group.

Fly casual.

Seriously, you have no idea if people are weighting their dice or not.

I mean, just because nobody is doing it where you are playing, doesn't make it a universal truth.

I know people who cheat in Ludo. Hell, I even know people who cheat when playing against little kids.

Just because something never happened to you, doesn't mean it never happens at all.

EDIT: Should be noted that the "genius" works at a nuclear power station.

All those spare X-ray machines lying around the power stations.

EDIT: Should be noted that the "genius" works at a nuclear power station.

All those spare X-ray machines lying around the power stations.

You know this because you've worked at a nuclear power station?

It doesn't happen because I know what I am talking about. I inderstand the process etc. it is a urban myth. The only way to really cheat at X-wing is to swap in dice in and out with extra hits of evades using slight of hand. You can carve out hits and evades with the right machines....not easy, but can be done. You can't load eight sided X-wing dice that come from only one company and have them pass inspection. Againl you could load them and then use slight of hand to get them out. But it they end up on the wrong side they look off. Loaded dice aren't auto....they just increase the odds. The eight side die it so small getting enough weight into the thing just isn't feasible.

Spread the myth if you want.

I can count cards and use slit of hand as well as van dam in blood sport. I practiced the coin trick and took plenty of lunch money growing up. It all just takes practice. I counted cards until a friend ended up frame and in jail for possession of a controlled substance planted in his hotel room. Since I imagine I don't like prison showers ai quite. I knew people who loaded dice for side craps games and that is a very dangerous deal. Seriously, just because I haven't seen a urologist I am smart enough to understand they don't exist...not because aliens don't exist but because the nearest star is 4.5 light years away and the aliens would have to be very close to make the trip. The Orion Nebula is something like 11,000k away. Aliens aren't going to waste 11,000 if somehow they can live 11,100 year just to say hello. Gosh, they would not even be able to figure out before the really really long trip (in our backyard) that people lived on this planet until 11k year from now when our radio ways hit them. Science supports the probability of alien life , just not in our small portion of the arm of our galaxy. Maybe in another arm, or further down the arm, or in a different galaxy but not within their lifespan and ability to travel light speed-- if that could even ever happen. 186,000 miles per second is light speed and it takes 4.5 years going that speed to get to the next star. Scientist haved kind tons of planets around other stars but nothing is within 10k of us.

So you have to come up with light speed ship. Ageless aliens, and the ability to magically see us from their neck of the woods which would have to be super close in terms of space distances

Yet people still believe in aliens and claim to see them.

People will still believe in c-wing loaded dice and claimed to have seen them--just don't believe them because while technically possible not probable.

Yes you could get some misfits with natural issues but there not going to alter the effect much and those that could would easly be spotted. The whole hollow area in the molding is bunk made up stuff.

Let's get back to reality.

I have a friend who is seriously lucky with dice. They are mine. People's luck runs in streaks. I alway rub his shoulder before playing. I usually roll hot for the first few turns. He is a magic troll.

Seriously, no one is weighting their dice. And it you insist people bring clear d6 to play with you, you can count me out of that group.

Fly casual.

Seriously, you have no idea if people are weighting their dice or not.

I mean, just because nobody is doing it where you are playing, doesn't make it a universal truth.

I know people who cheat in Ludo. Hell, I even know people who cheat when playing against little kids.

Just because something never happened to you, doesn't mean it never happens at all.

I want whatever this guy is smoking...

Glitterstim?...

The original post is not credible because if the so called local genius was a real math whiz, then he would have known that there is no way the described method of getting the data was valid. Watching and recording someone's dice results in a casual game is not a valid method to collect statistical data on a particular die. The observer would have no way to track the rolls for individual die. Moreover, there is no way to even know if the same dice were being used from game to game.

I dont believe the x-ray story. I dont believe that someone recorded the rolls over many games. I dont believe the nuclear power plant math person exists.

Get a fresh set of dice. Distract the player and swap them over. See if the winning streak continues. If it does its not the dice. If it doesn't then the dice are weighted but this does not mean the player has altered them.

Has anyone adapted the chi square statistical method for x wing dice?

I imagine you would have to mark the dice faces to do it properly. Preferably with a removable marker pen.

Yup, I rolled every one of my dice 493 times in salt water then another 200 on a board surface and found that one of my evade dice skews blanks while the rest are well within the expected variance.

The original post is not credible because if the so called local genius was a real math whiz, then he would have known that there is no way the described method of getting the data was valid. Watching and recording someone's dice results in a casual game is not a valid method to collect statistical data on a particular die. The observer would have no way to track the rolls for individual die. Moreover, there is no way to even know if the same dice were being used from game to game.

I dont believe the x-ray story. I dont believe that someone recorded the rolls over many games. I dont believe the nuclear power plant math person exists.

Of course, that's your perogative. Nobody is saying you have to believe anything ever.

However, the counting wasn't to prove he was cheating, it was simply done to confirm or disprove the suspcicion of him having above average number of hits and evades.

AFTER that was confirmed, they decided to actually test the dice.

Just to set the record straight.

I am starting to think you were the sore loser who made the claim and left after making the claim of loaded dice and are here to validate your terrible behave with poor halfwit comments. You're not setting any record straight...so let's get that straight.

The guy didn't count jack in his head. It was made up in all probability. No one is going into a match thinking ok there might be loaded dice so let me start remembering the die rolls. If the guy was super lucky, it would reason that he would not even think something was up until half way through. If he had suspected earlier, it just adds to the probability the guy was a sore loser. Again, why would someone enter a game thinking this is the one guy in millions with the loaded dice unless the guy suffers from paranoia. And since you are defending a guy for making baseless accusations, you might either be just getting kicks stirring the pot or were the ill mannered person who stormed off after having a temper tantrum or the person suffering from paranoia. There are no loaded X-wing dice ....period--for all the many reasons outlines that make the idea of their existence akin to a Bruce Wayne X-wing player putting his "shop on it."

The record is now straight and with nothing left for you to talk about oddballE8. Just answer this question to yourself--no need to reply. OddballE8 do you believe in ghosts and aliens as well? They are about as probable as load specialized X-wing dice.

unfortunately, there are now going to be people at tournaments wondering deep down if peoples's dice are loaded when people get hit streaks and blame their loss on dice vs luck and skill. All this talk of yours does disservice to the community of X-wing is all by planting illegitimate/conspiracy stuff into impressionable young minds.

I am certainly removing myself from this crazy, ridiculous post. Man where are the Myth Busters when you need them?

The original post is not credible because if the so called local genius was a real math whiz, then he would have known that there is no way the described method of getting the data was valid. Watching and recording someone's dice results in a casual game is not a valid method to collect statistical data on a particular die. The observer would have no way to track the rolls for individual die. Moreover, there is no way to even know if the same dice were being used from game to game.

I dont believe the x-ray story. I dont believe that someone recorded the rolls over many games. I dont believe the nuclear power plant math person exists.

Of course, that's your perogative. Nobody is saying you have to believe anything ever.

However, the counting wasn't to prove he was cheating, it was simply done to confirm or disprove the suspcicion of him having above average number of hits and evades.

AFTER that was confirmed, they decided to actually test the dice.

Just to set the record straight.

I am starting to think you were the sore loser who made the claim and left after making the claim of loaded dice and are here to validate your terrible behave with poor halfwit comments. You're not setting any record straight...so let's get that straight.

The guy didn't count jack in his head. It was made up in all probability. No one is going into a match thinking ok there might be loaded dice so let me start remembering the die rolls. If the guy was super lucky, it would reason that he would not even ink something was up until half way through. If he had suspected earlier, it just adds to the probability the guy was a sore loser. And since you are defending a guy for making baseless accusations, you are either just getting kicks stirring the pot or were the ill mannered kid who stormed off after having a temper tantrum.

Who are you talking to? It seems as if you're getting your threads confused.

There is a simple way to test loaded dice in a tournament.

1) Collect accused dice and roll them.

2) Then place small numbered stickers on the facing side shown. (Like the blue dots on the plastic bags for the ships/cards/bases)

3) Roll the dice ten times and record the number of times each numbered sticker shows up.

4) If any number sticker shows up 90% of the time, then that die is loaded.

4a) If it shows up 80% of the time, roll that die again 10 times and see it the combined total is 80% or more, then that die is loaded as well.

That is absolutely not enough to demonstrate that a die is loaded (or not).