I don't normally share my house-rules without context, especially ones I've never tested. But I've seen too many posts commenting on how lightsabers are too powerful for an early or low-level game. There was a brand new topic in the Edge of the Empire board bemoaning a 1-hit-kill just this morning.

As written, even in Force and Destiny, lightsabers are not intended to be starting equipment, and that just doesn't sit well with some people who want a reasonably well formed jedi character from starting rules. I don't think that's unreasonable; you can start as a capable smuggler, scarred bounty hunter, or wiley diplomat after all. And I don't think that training sabers or Ancient Swords scratch the right itch for most players.

I also want to point out that in the films, rarely do lightsabers accomplish any feats of destruction that a blaster could not. The only instance that jumps out in my memory is the point when Qui Gon tried to cut through the bulk-head door.

My rule in brief, and it's purpose:

Remove Breach 1. The unbalancing mechanical power of having a lightsaber in this game comes largely from the effect that they ignore any reasonable amount of soak. By removing this, a new GM can return to the same strategies for developing combat encounters as characters using blasters or other weapons. (It also becomes easier to balance encounters for a mixed party)

My rule in more detail:

Using this rule, I remove Breach 1 as a trait on all lightsaber crystal Attachments. I'd add 1 hard point to all hilts, and add an expensive new Attachment called the Amplified Emitter, which for 1 hardpoint enables Breach 1 on all crystals that had it originally. Prices for crystals and the Emitter should be adjusted as per the GM's discretion. I'd add a new character creation option; start with 50 morality and a basic personal lightsaber (one WITHOUT an Emitter.)

From my perspective, the biggest advantage to this is it's pretty simple. The second is that using this rule, a GM can insert a 'proper' lightsaber into her game at the right point in the narrative, without worrying that her jedi player will suddenly outshine the scrappy scoundrel's gunplay or charming spy's expertise.

Edit: I corrected some of my vocabulary regarding Mods and Attachments.

An easier solution is to use Cortosis Weave on all enemy armor or start them with Ancient Swords or training lightsabers. There is no reason to down power the lightsaber.

If you are that committed on allowing characters to start with a lightsaber, you should honestly just start with knight level play rules. I mean, alot of groups that do not start with it do so because the first few sessions end up being the quest for the lightsaber and end up at about knight level play anyways. Starting with a full blown lightsaber ends up making a campaign that is the search for a crystal a bit of a moot point anyways. I have not seen breach be a problem when starting at knight level play.

I think its a solid rule and it gives the best of both worlds without doing the knight level thing. For me though, it would take the fun out of the game. The fact is, when first starting, they aren't Jedi. At least, they aren't supposed to be. Even in the MMO you can't start with a lightsaber, you have to work for it. That's the fun part! Players should want to work up to that point. Let their character grow in to the Jedi and build the lightsaber based on their views of the Force. Not just jump in to it.

Anywho, rant over. I really dig the rule lol.

I'm kinda wondering, what's wrong with training sabers?

There's nothing wrong with them. I think they just don't match the expectation a new player has when playing a Star Wars RPG for the first time.

An easier solution is to use Cortosis Weave on all enemy armor.

No, it is not easier. At Best it's the exact same thing, but with extra notation written down on every NPC and character sheet. However, such a sledge hammer approach would also tamper with pierce on other weapons, which I never intended.

Further, when comparing my way and yours, yours makes for a more antagonistic, less transparent relationship between the GM and the players. Removing Breach from the beginning makes the GM's intent clear (and even allows for the use of Cortosis in more interesting events). Adding Cortosis weave to every enemy means that every time the player wants to use his lightsaber, the GM needs to tell the player again that an aspect of his weapon once more doesn't work because it's 'easier.'

If you are that committed on allowing characters to start with a lightsaber, you should honestly just start with knight level play rules. I mean, alot of groups that do not start with it do so because the first few sessions end up being the quest for the lightsaber and end up at about knight level play anyways. Starting with a full blown lightsaber ends up making a campaign that is the search for a crystal a bit of a moot point anyways. I have not seen breach be a problem when starting at knight level play.

A very good point. I think a lot of the issues I read about stem from issues of GMs not knowing how to use it.

"alot of groups that do not start with it do so because the first few sessions end up being the quest for the lightsaber and end up at about knight level play anyways." When this happens, the character(s) that gets the crystal is going to get a very sudden spike in power. Experienced GMs can manage this by changing encounter design, granting stuff to other players, or other tactics, but it seems to be a recurring problem for newer GMs.

Further, I don't think of Knight Level Play to be same universal band-aid you do. It adds yet another step to character creation, one that has a lot of depth and, unfortunately, complexity. There's no reason starting characters can't be badasses.

It's just harder to feel badass when you're swingin' around a kiddie stick.

"There's nothing wrong with them. I think they just don't match the expectation a new player has when playing a Star Wars RPG for the first time."

Statistically what is the difference between a regular lightsaber without breach one and a lightsaber with the training emitter?

"There's nothing wrong with them. I think they just don't match the expectation a new player has when playing a Star Wars RPG for the first time."

Statistically what is the difference between a regular lightsaber without breach one and a lightsaber with the training emitter?

Aside from stun damage and lethal damage, nothing

oh wait and training lightsabers cant crit

Sure, whatever works for you. But in response I would grant some of the mods on it to improve damage to about 8/9. Why? Because 6 damage is about the same clout you have on a blaster pistol, which isn't really all that cool. Though that being said, that's what modding is for so it might not be necessary.

Otherwise I think it's a cool idea, so that they can have an actual lightsaber without the silly training saber compromise (My opinion. I was never fond of training sabers., but allow you to adjust to the changes a little more carefully. Perhaps explaining that while most of the parts are easy to get hold of, it doesn't really get it's sharpness without the amplifier. All in all I like the change and if I ran a group would consider it. Just as said, I would expect a pretty decent backstory if any of my players actually wanted to start as a Jedi.

(Personally, my group has it ruled that each mod escalates the difficultly by one, so building a Ilum Lightsaber maxed out is really difficult for us. Your mileage might vary)

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oh wait and training lightsabers cant crit

Sure lightsabers do not have a critical rating, but you can still spend a Triumph on a combat check to inflict a Critical Injury.

as written, does a training lightsaber ONLY do stun damage? Is it incapable of doing lethal?

Feels absolutely unnecessary for me for a few reasons. Firstly I don't understand he compunction to give force users lightsaber's right off the bat, smugglers and diplomats don't start off like you claim, they start off "ok" at best about equivalently effective as a force user without a lightsaber. Secondly lightsaber's without breach are pretty much garbage, note they do 6 damage not +6 damage making them the rough equivalent of a sh*tty blaster pistol in that they require a skill that works "only" for lightsaber's and have a range of engaged. Also with a flat 6 you might as well use nearly any other kind of melee weapon and be better off, hell a character with 4 brawn will litterally be better off with a vibroknife.

On top of this lightsaber's are effectively a giant kill me sign not only to the Empire but to any person who sees or has seen what they can do or even faintly knows the legends of the Jedi.

As for justification for breach (aside from now sh*tty it makes lightsaber's not to have) the movies give more examples than just episode one as the only time they ever strike anyone they either implae them or remove a limb showing they pretty much pass through next to anything they touch.

Taipani Lighfoil emitter: 6 damage, crit 3, no upgrade options, same cost as a training emitter.

Feels absolutely unnecessary for me for a few reasons. Firstly I don't understand he compunction to give force users lightsaber's right off the bat, smugglers and diplomats don't start off like you claim, they start off "ok" at best about equivalently effective as a force user without a lightsaber. Secondly lightsaber's without breach are pretty much garbage, note they do 6 damage not +6 damage making them the rough equivalent of a sh*tty blaster pistol in that they require a skill that works "only" for lightsaber's and have a range of engaged. Also with a flat 6 you might as well use nearly any other kind of melee weapon and be better off, hell a character with 4 brawn will litterally be better off with a vibroknife.

On top of this lightsaber's are effectively a giant kill me sign not only to the Empire but to any person who sees or has seen what they can do or even faintly knows the legends of the Jedi.

As for justification for breach (aside from now sh*tty it makes lightsaber's not to have) the movies give more examples than just episode one as the only time they ever strike anyone they either implae them or remove a limb showing they pretty much pass through next to anything they touch.

Two reasons actually.

1) A lightsaber can be modified quite easily by it's wielder. Making it better then a blaster pistol fairly quickly. This is unlike a training saber.

2) Theres potential to build it up to it's full power later.

Of course, everyone getting lightsabers and what not, a whole separate issue that is dependant on campaign that is largely irrlivant. The GM never stated the circumstance of his campaign so anything beyond those facts presented. Personally, if your playing a force senstive, ,you have a big target on your back, glowstick or not. Best kind of campaign being wanted, I should know, my character has 20k credit bounty to his name XD

Feels absolutely unnecessary for me for a few reasons. Firstly I don't understand he compunction to give force users lightsaber's right off the bat, smugglers and diplomats don't start off like you claim, they start off "ok" at best about equivalently effective as a force user without a lightsaber. Secondly lightsaber's without breach are pretty much garbage, note they do 6 damage not +6 damage making them the rough equivalent of a sh*tty blaster pistol in that they require a skill that works "only" for lightsaber's and have a range of engaged. Also with a flat 6 you might as well use nearly any other kind of melee weapon and be better off, hell a character with 4 brawn will litterally be better off with a vibroknife.

On top of this lightsaber's are effectively a giant kill me sign not only to the Empire but to any person who sees or has seen what they can do or even faintly knows the legends of the Jedi.

As for justification for breach (aside from now sh*tty it makes lightsaber's not to have) the movies give more examples than just episode one as the only time they ever strike anyone they either implae them or remove a limb showing they pretty much pass through next to anything they touch.

Two reasons actually.

1) A lightsaber can be modified quite easily by it's wielder. Making it better then a blaster pistol fairly quickly. This is unlike a training saber.

2) Theres potential to build it up to it's full power later.

Of course, everyone getting lightsabers and what not, a whole separate issue that is dependant on campaign that is largely irrlivant. The GM never stated the circumstance of his campaign so anything beyond those facts presented. Personally, if your playing a force senstive, ,you have a big target on your back, glowstick or not. Best kind of campaign being wanted, I should know, my character has 20k credit bounty to his name XD

This aside breach is one of the only stats that makes a lightsaber actually powerful, beyond that it really just is a bad melee weapon that requires special training.

Yes though being a force user can make others want to kill you but it's easier to conceal than a glowing sword as several powers you can use right in front of people without them ever realizing what you're actually doing. Any who just my two cents if that's what works for their players then so be it, I just would start everyone at knight level if I really wanted them to start with lightsaber's and I'd never remove breach as it feels to me to take away from what a lightsaber is.

Personally I have 6 players in my campaign, 4 force users, an ace pilot gunner and a technician mechanic, none started with lightsaber's and instead had to eventually quest for them, to me that seemed to be half the fun was actually finding and constructing their own sabers if not more than for the narrative but then the sense of achievement.

Don't need to dump on training emitters all that much. They are cheap, let you practice your lightsaber skill, and most importantly, can Reflect. Aesthetically speaking, they really are no different from lightsabers. It's just the cutting power that differs.

I would ask what a first-time player's expectation of Star Wars would be...do they come to the game wanting their lightsabers to be able to roll a d100 for 2 squiggly things on the dice? Or is it the Breach quality that they would miss? "Just doesn't feel like Star Wars without Breach."

I can appreciate the desire to lop people's arms off. But really, it's very easy to quell the bloodthirsty expectations of your newbie players by simply saying, "This lightsaber, like your Force abilities, pales in comparison to the Jedi order of old. Though it is symbolic in identifying you with the Jedi, and capable of many of the same feats, nearly-forgotten legends tell of blades that could not only reflect blaster bolts, but also hew through rock, bone, and even durasteel like so much flimsiplast. Your training emitter gives you a blade, but it is without a true lightsaber's cutting power."

Perhaps then a Lore check, or an interested third party, could relate to them the need for kyber crystals and the possible location of these crystals. And voila, you have your first adventure.

I can absolutely understand the desire to skip over the lightsaber acquisition part of the story.

With that said, I have a harder time wrapping my head around wanting to give the PCs lightsabers without advancing them to knight level play. I'll get that knight level play adds complexity that might not be desired, but starting force users are like the larval form of an actual jedi, and a lightsaber is something one earns. If you want to skip the lightsaber's acquisition, you're skipping the earning of the weapon, which means you should be starting as someone who's already proven themselves worthy.

I think it's unfortunate that you need to embrace the complexity of knight-level play in order to get a character that has any business possessing a lightsaber, but that's seems to me to be the reality we face.

For all that people like that FFG finally brought force users into balance with other characters, this is the other edge of that sword: force users were made so modest that they need an awful lot of points on their sheet before they start to feel like someone that should have a lightsaber on their belt.

When I think about it, though, I guess you could argue that characters shouldn't need to have advanced to the point of earning a lightsaber in order to have one. Luke certainly hadn't reached that point when he inherited Anakin's lightsaber in Episode IV. If you want to take that kind of approach -- with characters having lightsabers without having yet proven themselves truly worthy of the weapon -- I can see wanting to bring the weapon a little more in balance with what starting characters tend to have. And removing Breach seems like a reasonable way to do that.

So ultimately I'm going to settle on the wishy-washy response that one should do whatever is right for their table, acknowledging that the approach suggested here is valid, but not to my personal taste.

Yeah, I don't get the aversion to Knight Level, myself. It just gives the players a chance to better define their characters. If you're afraid of talent-overload, try a little houserule like, "You must start with at least two skills at rank 3." That's 30-50 XP spoken for, easy

Breach is not over powered its not going to even come into play in most situations. Against most opponents its not going to be any different then pierce 2 or pierce 4, because the opponents aren't going to have soak above 2 or 4.

As for modding lightsaber crystals well how exactly would a starting character have any clue how to do that?

Just like creating a lightsaber the knowledge and techniques required to modify a lightsaber crystal is beyond the knowledge they have. Its a prime example of how the difficulty should be higher then normal with dangerous consequences due to the fact they have no clue what they are trying to do. Thats an entire series of adventures to find the proper techniques and tools required for the job.

let you practice your lightsaber skill

Winner, winner, chicken dinner! The ability to practice with a lightsaber and not remove an arm is not to be underestimated. Because we all know that within seconds of getting and turning on a saber, a noob would several body parts on the floor.

(True story - Once upon a time I bought a Master Replicas Maul Saber. The FIRST thing I did after getting it out of the box and putting batteries in was begin twirling it like a madman, hitting the back of my head and whacking the chandelier two swings into my "fight", sending glass raining down on me, cutting a big gash in my arm. If that had been a live blade, I would have been dead within three minuets of unboxing.)

The thread title gives me the impression of lightsabers without any pants or underwear on...

Gives an all new meaning to Republic Commando Squad. . . .

The thread title gives me the impression of lightsabers without any pants or underwear on...

Kinda like Donald Duck.

Gives an all new meaning to Republic Commando Squad. . . .

With that, it makes me wonder if the body glove they wear are tops and chaps only or what?

Gives an all new meaning to Republic Commando Squad. . . .

With that, it makes me wonder if the body glove they wear are tops and chaps only or what?

Even Clones gotta give the misters some breathing room.