You keep saying that FFG could sell products in Walmart or Target. Not only is that concept laughable but it's missing the whole lot of the point of why FFG wants brick and mortar game stores to consistently carry thier product.

First, in regards to the idea that Walmart and Target would stock FFG's stuff. You're basing this on the fact that you bought an X-wing Core Set and 7 Wonders at a Target once? So because Target will stock a Core Set to FFGs most popular line and Asmodee's biggest board game, they'd stock full lines of FFGs product? You've got to be nuts, do you see how many SKUs X-wing has, or IA, or even Armada? How much space do you think a big box retailer is going to give to niche gaming products? They devote a 1 foot space on the bottom of a corner shelf to 4-5 X-wing Core Sets, they carry none of the expansions, and you'd think they start carrying the 2nd string Star Wars line in a real way? They don't even carry less niche gaming products like MTG and Pokémon in a real way. They get maybe some shelf space that rarely gets restocked near the registers next to baseball card and As Seen on TV products.

Walmart and Target are not real distribution channels for FFG products. They are promotional.

Secondly, even if a big box retailer were to stock FFG products in a real way, do you think Walmart is going to start holding open game nights and tournaments? Because that is pretty much the whole reason FFG wants to keep thier products in brick and mortar stores. FFG has made the determination that brick and mortar stores create and drive the market for thier products by running events and providing players with a space to meet and play the games in. Even if Target or Walmart were to stock more FFG product (which isn't going to happen in a real way) they won't be providing the space for those game to be played in a public venue. That's exactly the benefit FFG wants brick and mortar stores to continue to provide to thier products. FFG realizes that won't happen if stores are unable to sell FFG products because they can't even remotely match prices with online retailers, because up until FFG decided to change the terms those online retailers were getting the same rate as brick and mortar stores that provide a service FFG wants to maintain. Online retailers were just reaping the benefits of in equitable distribution model.

I think the main point he was trying to make is that many of the people who buy these games only do so when/if discounted. Raise the price, for ANY reason, and they will lose a large market. Many of us (apparently mostly those who buy online) feel that the 'discount market' is larger and likely more profitable to FFG than the 'FLGS market'. So compromising online prices to save brick and mortar stores will ultimately hurt FFG's total profit.

And FFG, whom have both the numbers to work off of and the real vested interest in the subject, has concluded pretty much the exact opposite.

I think they should expect an initial downturn in sales, but this is a long term move for them. It isn't as if you are no longer going to see FFGs products discounted and available online, you just won't see it at such a sharp discount.

Moreover, I don't think that was his point. I think that's your point, but he's talking about big box retailer replacing brick and mortar game stores as a distribution channel for FFG. Which is again just ignoring why FFG wants to have a presence in brick and mortar game shops, among other things.

Even with less of a discount, MM offers a much higher percentage of a given line's SKUs than the vast majority of LGSs and they deliver to my home. Being in the majority crowd that plays at home/friend's homes and not at LGSs (I used to, but haven't now for a year or more) there really is no incentive for me to buy at a LGS that sells at MSRP.

And FFG, whom have both the numbers to work off of and the real vested interest in the subject, has concluded pretty much the exact opposite.

If thats the conclusion though, then FFG is sadly mistaken. I will easily liken this to the MMO PC Gaming industry as its pretty relevant in regards to the past 20 years alone. MMOs used to charge for their base product on top of the monthly subscription. In the end, most of not all give the base product away for free and you have free to play. Sure you are limited to what you can do, but the product is out there for free to at least give people the chance to play and see if they like it. Only once do you pay monthly do you get all the benefits of the full game. And on top of that, take Star Wars The Old Republic, it has a "Cartel Market" where it doesnt offer any extra benefits that make you better in game, its a pure cosmetic industry but thats where they make their money. Getting people "sucked in" and then getting me to buy the extras, but at a reasonable price. A single plastic figure to me is NOT worth $12-$15. $7.50-$8 I can get behind.

So FFG cant afford to give away their base product, I get it, but at least at a discounted price, I was willing to buy it. Would I still have bought it at $100 instead of $60? Possibly, but I can tell you Id of surely been upset had I then bought it, found out I gotta buy Han, Chewie, Royal Guard Champion, General Weiss, IG88, Rebel Sabatuers, and Rebel Troopers at $15-$20 each just so I didnt have to play with tokens. If that was the case I surely wouldnt have spent now well over $400 in everything so far. Also Ive supported two little companies in one for a nice wooden/velvet dice tray (actually i bought 2) and foam storage for the base set now bringing my spenditures closer to $500. And im editing this bc I forgot to include all the money Ive spent at Gamers Workshop for some specific paints and hobby stores for primers and extra things to paint and design, so thats probably another $100 there too.

So tell me this, is FFG better off with $100 or $400 and me supporting local companies/retailers at $200??

And I bet a ton of people are more like me than what you seem to claim is going to happen if the LGS can "now compete" with the online retailers.

~D

Well, I spent some time (yesterday actually) talking to one if the LGS general managers (someone who knows something and isn't just a clerk).

He was telling me that they buy IA for about $60, but are advised (by ffg) to sell at over MSRP, somewhere around $120. He sells theirs for $100 because they need to move product, but it really surprised me. FFG is advising them to (try to) sell so high? What chicanery is this?

I somehow doubt that is FFG. Probably the distributor he buys his product from.

My home town game shop doesn't carry any FFG I play. When I ask if they plan on carrying then they can place an order to get what I want. If I am going to wait on an order I would rather it show up at my home. Plus MM prices are what allow me to build my collection.

I am curious on how this will play out. My FLGS the owner works with me on prices. If he can get close to what I can buy online I go through him. He also understands if I can get cheaper then him that I will go with it. Though so far he has worked well with me. I tried to have a large order to help offset shipping for him. He doesn't charge to use the tables and I fully understand he needs to eat so I don't mind paying a little more. But he works with in what he can.

Well, I spent some time (yesterday actually) talking to one if the LGS general managers (someone who knows something and isn't just a clerk).

He was telling me that they buy IA for about $60, but are advised (by ffg) to sell at over MSRP, somewhere around $120. He sells theirs for $100 because they need to move product, but it really surprised me. FFG is advising them to (try to) sell so high? What chicanery is this?

A 40-50% markup is pretty standard for retail. Keep in mind not all of that markup is profit. The store must pay rent, utilities, employees etc. Most stores only make 5-10% of the MSRP as profit.

Can we get one more Stormtrooper avatar please?

I JUST FREAKIN FIGURED IT OUT.

Ok, so some of you who were paying attention to the website may have noticed they integrated the new online shop into the website. I spend a lot of time on here, and that *wasn't here two months ago.

This has nothing to do with saving brick and mortar stores. This has everything to do with FFG wanting to set its prices at close to MSRP and not being undercut by online competition carrying their own products. The shop on here is *new. The policy was created to protect their *own direct sales!

THE CALL IS COMING FROM INSIDE THE HOUSE

Buy your figures now while they're still cheap!

~D

I JUST FREAKIN FIGURED IT OUT.

Ok, so some of you who were paying attention to the website may have noticed they integrated the new online shop into the website. I spend a lot of time on here, and that *wasn't here two months ago.

This has nothing to do with saving brick and mortar stores. This has everything to do with FFG wanting to set its prices at close to MSRP and not being undercut by online competition carrying their own products. The shop on here is *new. The policy was created to protect their *own direct sales!

Actually, most publishers who also run their own web store sell at MSRP. This is so they do not undercut thier primary customers: retailers. Some of them also sell exclusive content or give out promos with online purchases which I hope FFG will take s look at, especially when it comes to reprinted/errataed cards that are only available in tournament kits.

I JUST FREAKIN FIGURED IT OUT.

Ok, so some of you who were paying attention to the website may have noticed they integrated the new online shop into the website. I spend a lot of time on here, and that *wasn't here two months ago.

This has nothing to do with saving brick and mortar stores. This has everything to do with FFG wanting to set its prices at close to MSRP and not being undercut by online competition carrying their own products. The shop on here is *new. The policy was created to protect their *own direct sales!

Actually, most publishers who also run their own web store sell at MSRP. This is so they do not undercut thier primary customers: retailers. Some of them also sell exclusive content or give out promos with online purchases which I hope FFG will take s look at, especially when it comes to reprinted/errataed cards that are only available in tournament kits.

Or acrylic tokens, or box inserts, or all the other things fans desire or have to make for themselves. There's a goldmine out there.

I JUST FREAKIN FIGURED IT OUT.

Ok, so some of you who were paying attention to the website may have noticed they integrated the new online shop into the website. I spend a lot of time on here, and that *wasn't here two months ago.

This has nothing to do with saving brick and mortar stores. This has everything to do with FFG wanting to set its prices at close to MSRP and not being undercut by online competition carrying their own products. The shop on here is *new. The policy was created to protect their *own direct sales!

Actually, most publishers who also run their own web store sell at MSRP. This is so they do not undercut thier primary customers: retailers. Some of them also sell exclusive content or give out promos with online purchases which I hope FFG will take s look at, especially when it comes to reprinted/errataed cards that are only available in tournament kits.

Yeah, that's one reason I buy off the Plaid Hat games site instead of amazon is the promos. I stand by my theory though. Watch the store go live and start selling IA about the same time the policy hits in April.

Buy your minis now lads! Rough sea ahead.

Asmodee is looking at getting into the distribution game, not the retailer game.

I JUST FREAKIN FIGURED IT OUT.

Ok, so some of you who were paying attention to the website may have noticed they integrated the new online shop into the website. I spend a lot of time on here, and that *wasn't here two months ago.

This has nothing to do with saving brick and mortar stores. This has everything to do with FFG wanting to set its prices at close to MSRP and not being undercut by online competition carrying their own products. The shop on here is *new. The policy was created to protect their *own direct sales!

An interesting idea except for the fact that you can't buy IA from the FFG shop...

I JUST FREAKIN FIGURED IT OUT.

Ok, so some of you who were paying attention to the website may have noticed they integrated the new online shop into the website. I spend a lot of time on here, and that *wasn't here two months ago.

This has nothing to do with saving brick and mortar stores. This has everything to do with FFG wanting to set its prices at close to MSRP and not being undercut by online competition carrying their own products. The shop on here is *new. The policy was created to protect their *own direct sales!

An interesting idea except for the fact that you can't buy IA from the FFG shop...

What Asmodee is implementing has nothing to do with why FFG can't sell Imperial Assault. It likely has to do with whatever deal they made with Hasbro to essentially use Hasbro's boardgame license for Star Wars. Which is also why they tacked on the skirmish game.

What FFG needs to do is allow some of these Gaming Stores get premiere content and early access to stuff. So MM/CoolStuff/Cardhaus will be allowed to still sell at discounted prices, they just wont get the product 60-90 days behind these premiere stores. I can tell you, I definitely wouldnt be getting into IA if it was $100 for the core set and $15-$25 for every exp pack.

It also tells me that if MM can charge me $7.50 for Boba Fett and still make money, then why should I pay $15 for it? If I am crazy enough, I could have boughten it for $25-$30 off amazon/ebay. So why should sellers be penalized for "over pricing" if someone out there is willing to pay for it.

FFG and local retailers need to simply create ways to bring people in, not jack them on prices. Bc obviously that little piece of plastic dont cost much to make. The answer is to get more people to play and you do that by running events and special scenarios. Plus those of us who just want to play campaign, we dont care much about skirmish, so maybe FFG should gear some specialty events towards that rather than all pvp skirmish.

~D

You're missing the point entirely.

Local stores of any type, whether they are selling you board games or ballroom gowns, have expenses that online stores do not. They have employees who need to be effective working directly with shoppers. They need to keep their displays visible and inviting. They need to pay rent -- not for a cheap warehouse or storage unit, but for a busy storefront in a place people will travel to. They need to pay for various amenities a shipping warehouse doesn't typically need like heating and air conditioning. They have to meet strict rules for health and safety standards to stay open.

Oh, and they typically then need to rent additional storefront space so that you and your friends have an area to play. If you aren't going in on a week night, they still probably need space for tournaments, pre-release events, etc.

And all of this, of course, requires money. And we haven't even gotten to the fact yet that the goods themselves require money to buy more stock. Or that in the above example, we didn't even talk about what the store owner should get, or their lenders, or any investors.

So that's what your 25% discount is from.

What FFG needs to do is allow some of these Gaming Stores get premiere content and early access to stuff. So MM/CoolStuff/Cardhaus will be allowed to still sell at discounted prices, they just wont get the product 60-90 days behind these premiere stores. I can tell you, I definitely wouldnt be getting into IA if it was $100 for the core set and $15-$25 for every exp pack.

It also tells me that if MM can charge me $7.50 for Boba Fett and still make money, then why should I pay $15 for it? If I am crazy enough, I could have boughten it for $25-$30 off amazon/ebay. So why should sellers be penalized for "over pricing" if someone out there is willing to pay for it.

FFG and local retailers need to simply create ways to bring people in, not jack them on prices. Bc obviously that little piece of plastic dont cost much to make. The answer is to get more people to play and you do that by running events and special scenarios. Plus those of us who just want to play campaign, we dont care much about skirmish, so maybe FFG should gear some specialty events towards that rather than all pvp skirmish.

~D

You're missing the point entirely.

Local stores of any type, whether they are selling you board games or ballroom gowns, have expenses that online stores do not. They have employees who need to be effective working directly with shoppers. They need to keep their displays visible and inviting. They need to pay rent -- not for a cheap warehouse or storage unit, but for a busy storefront in a place people will travel to. They need to pay for various amenities a shipping warehouse doesn't typically need like heating and air conditioning. They have to meet strict rules for health and safety standards to stay open.

Oh, and they typically then need to rent additional storefront space so that you and your friends have an area to play. If you aren't going in on a week night, they still probably need space for tournaments, pre-release events, etc.

And all of this, of course, requires money. And we haven't even gotten to the fact yet that the goods themselves require money to buy more stock. Or that in the above example, we didn't even talk about what the store owner should get, or their lenders, or any investors.

So that's what your 25% discount is from.

Of course, like Miniatures Market, which absolutely does not have a brick and mortar store in St Louis Missouri. Because, if it did have one of those, which it certainly does not, there is no way it could sell its products at such low rates. Its a good thing they don't have a show floor open six days a week or else their added expenses like "heat" and "bathrooms" might mean they had to jack up their prices 150%.

What FFG needs to do is allow some of these Gaming Stores get premiere content and early access to stuff. So MM/CoolStuff/Cardhaus will be allowed to still sell at discounted prices, they just wont get the product 60-90 days behind these premiere stores. I can tell you, I definitely wouldnt be getting into IA if it was $100 for the core set and $15-$25 for every exp pack.

It also tells me that if MM can charge me $7.50 for Boba Fett and still make money, then why should I pay $15 for it? If I am crazy enough, I could have boughten it for $25-$30 off amazon/ebay. So why should sellers be penalized for "over pricing" if someone out there is willing to pay for it.

FFG and local retailers need to simply create ways to bring people in, not jack them on prices. Bc obviously that little piece of plastic dont cost much to make. The answer is to get more people to play and you do that by running events and special scenarios. Plus those of us who just want to play campaign, we dont care much about skirmish, so maybe FFG should gear some specialty events towards that rather than all pvp skirmish.

~D

You're missing the point entirely.

Local stores of any type, whether they are selling you board games or ballroom gowns, have expenses that online stores do not. They have employees who need to be effective working directly with shoppers. They need to keep their displays visible and inviting. They need to pay rent -- not for a cheap warehouse or storage unit, but for a busy storefront in a place people will travel to. They need to pay for various amenities a shipping warehouse doesn't typically need like heating and air conditioning. They have to meet strict rules for health and safety standards to stay open.

Oh, and they typically then need to rent additional storefront space so that you and your friends have an area to play. If you aren't going in on a week night, they still probably need space for tournaments, pre-release events, etc.

And all of this, of course, requires money. And we haven't even gotten to the fact yet that the goods themselves require money to buy more stock. Or that in the above example, we didn't even talk about what the store owner should get, or their lenders, or any investors.

So that's what your 25% discount is from.

Of course, like Miniatures Market, which absolutely does not have a brick and mortar store in St Louis Missouri. Because, if it did have one of those, which it certainly does not, there is no way it could sell its products at such low rates. Its a good thing they don't have a show floor open six days a week or else their added expenses like "heat" and "bathrooms" might mean they had to jack up their prices 150%.

~D

What FFG needs to do is allow some of these Gaming Stores get premiere content and early access to stuff. So MM/CoolStuff/Cardhaus will be allowed to still sell at discounted prices, they just wont get the product 60-90 days behind these premiere stores. I can tell you, I definitely wouldnt be getting into IA if it was $100 for the core set and $15-$25 for every exp pack.

It also tells me that if MM can charge me $7.50 for Boba Fett and still make money, then why should I pay $15 for it? If I am crazy enough, I could have boughten it for $25-$30 off amazon/ebay. So why should sellers be penalized for "over pricing" if someone out there is willing to pay for it.

FFG and local retailers need to simply create ways to bring people in, not jack them on prices. Bc obviously that little piece of plastic dont cost much to make. The answer is to get more people to play and you do that by running events and special scenarios. Plus those of us who just want to play campaign, we dont care much about skirmish, so maybe FFG should gear some specialty events towards that rather than all pvp skirmish.

~D

You're missing the point entirely.

Local stores of any type, whether they are selling you board games or ballroom gowns, have expenses that online stores do not. They have employees who need to be effective working directly with shoppers. They need to keep their displays visible and inviting. They need to pay rent -- not for a cheap warehouse or storage unit, but for a busy storefront in a place people will travel to. They need to pay for various amenities a shipping warehouse doesn't typically need like heating and air conditioning. They have to meet strict rules for health and safety standards to stay open.

Oh, and they typically then need to rent additional storefront space so that you and your friends have an area to play. If you aren't going in on a week night, they still probably need space for tournaments, pre-release events, etc.

And all of this, of course, requires money. And we haven't even gotten to the fact yet that the goods themselves require money to buy more stock. Or that in the above example, we didn't even talk about what the store owner should get, or their lenders, or any investors.

So that's what your 25% discount is from.

Of course, like Miniatures Market, which absolutely does not have a brick and mortar store in St Louis Missouri. Because, if it did have one of those, which it certainly does not, there is no way it could sell its products at such low rates. Its a good thing they don't have a show floor open six days a week or else their added expenses like "heat" and "bathrooms" might mean they had to jack up their prices 150%.

Yes, but now they've taken their product and decoupled it from the store. They are selling across state and regional boundaries, beyond what a single storefront could accomplish. Frontline Games (formerly of Martinez, CA and now in San Diego) operates the same way, as does Cool Stuff Inc (just outside of Orlando, FL).

What this means is that your store in St Louis is paying St Louis rent and utility prices yet competes with at least 4 stores in the San Francisco Bay Area with rent that's probably 2-3 times more expensive, minimum wage that is dramatically higher, and margins that are even thinner.

That's just a matter of poor government destroying business. There is nothing stopping the San Fran games shops from setting up their own online store. You want to talk about location troubles, your gonna end up talking about the damaging effect of high taxes and restrictive government, local and otherwise.

Politics ain't exactly welcome on these forums, is the impression I've got.