And what store doesnt charge an entry fee anyways so they ARE making profit on it.

The entry fee covers the cost of the kit and maybe a little bit more. Not enough to pay the rent or lights.

it sure tells me that they dont need to be charging me $15 an exp pack if others can do it at $7.50 and still make a profit.

You clearly know nothing about retail. The reason they can sell so cheaply online is because their overhead is tiny compared to a retail store. Online stores don't need to pay for retail space and have part of that space devoted to play areas which only makes them money if the people playing there actually buy something.

And in the end, FFG wants to make money, so theyd rather sell the product for a lower point cost than not to sell anything at all.

In the end, without LGS there won't be a game to be sold at all.

It all comes down to the local stores supporting the games and what players want.

How exactly are they supposed to that when people like you don't buy anything from them in the first place?

Here the thing, its a poor game shop that doesn't have an online presence. My brother runs a game shop (or is setting one up, not sure), and selling magic online keeps the lights on, and the foot traffic is... nice to have when it happens. Star City Games is a perfect example of this. My brother is working on his eBay store.

If FLGS is competing against big retailers like mini market, they need to be smart and compete in the same race.

I don't mind buying from a local store and would prefer it. They just don't ever have what I want in stock. No body carries a full line of one game. It's always a little of this, a little of that, and this odd stuff there. Then what's worse is when they don't convey that they will do everything they can to support what your interested in. As in, can we order that just for you and contact you when it arrives. I found it easier and cheaper to mail order and wait a week than to drive 30 minutes to find out they don't stock such item.

Alright, if you want me to explain it even more:

The entry fee covers the cost of the kit and maybe a little bit more. Not enough to pay the rent or lights.

You clearly know nothing about retail. The reason they can sell so cheaply online is because their overhead is tiny compared to a retail store. Online stores don't need to pay for retail space and have part of that space devoted to play areas which only makes them money if the people playing there actually buy something.

Don't insult my intelligence, I've been buying locally from card shops since 1991. I've worked at them and been around them for years. Clearly YOU don't understand how most of these online shops work. Most of them ARE local gaming stores AND run events. I can select any of them to "pick up" locally when I purchase and signup for them to run events. And if they're holding 56 bantha riders (which don't sit on a store shelf, they sit in a back shelf and take up more room physically), they clearly need more space then the local guy whose carrying 1 or 2 in his case or shelf in the store. He also needs to sell 2 for every 1 to make the same revenue. And a local game store has what...4-6 employees most of the times? You walk into a store and they're just sitting on their butts surfing the net anyways. At least with an online presence, those workers are wrapping/shipping product.

In the end, without LGS there won't be a game to be sold at all.

Not true at all, there are tons of games simply supported by people playing at home and online communities. True, FFG doesn't want to base it's model and mission statement on that, but they could easily and DO easily make a profit w/o having the need to sell at LGS. Go to GenCon and watch the lines of droves of people who come there just to get a game 30-60 days in advance or to hopefully get a special model of something that may or may not ever get released in other forms.

If they simply put a $15 fee for a annually/monthly/whatever for people to be part of a "league" and then those local event runners simply ran the events at their homes, they'd probably make more money. As IS you have to be a retailer to really even get league kits.

How exactly are they supposed to that when people like you don't buy anything from them in the first place?

Again, goes back to them running events and promoting the game. If I show up for a skirmish and some guy has an awesome combo and I need that model, there's always a chance I could buy it at the gaming store because I gotta buy it now or I could just wait and go home and buy it then. It's all impulse buying. And if they're not running events, WHY would I buy from them? Your arguments aren't comparing to what I'm even saying.

As others have posted as well. If the gaming store doesn't want to run events, if they only want to stay open till 6PM or 7PM, then it's not my job to keep them in business. If they want to run events, then do it smartly. Run it, charge for it, support it with cool prizes, and I'll be there. I'll get to know the crew. I'll then decide that maybe I won't buy everything, but I'll definitely buy my supplies from them, and perhaps I'll get into another game that they carry and maybe I'll buy that on impulse. Or just do what one of the local places here does and it's not only a gaming store, it's also a café. And you want to know what he charges to allow me and my 6-8 friends to use a couple of tables on a Saturday (all day) to play Star Trek CCG (that's not supported by a major company anymore, is run by a non-profit group of people, strictly online)...?? he charges us $10 per person and out of that $10, he gives us vouchers for $10 in food. So basically I just need to buy food from them and he lets us chill there all day. And you wanna know what ends up happening a lot of times? We buy more than $10 in food per person and we end up buying supplies (like sleeves) from him while playing games there, a game that he doesn't even carry. That's how you run a good business. Support what I'm playing and I'll spend the money there. Sure I might not buy everything, but I'll find a way to support you.

~D

Alright, if you want me to explain it even more:

No need, if you feel that the lowest price is all that matters then buy where you want. But when your LGS' all close, then you'll also know who to blame for it.

But either way I'm not going to bother reading or posting in this thread again. It will be nothing more then the same arguments made by both sides, and neither side will change it's mind.

No need, if you feel that the lowest price is all that matters then buy where you want. But when your LGS' all close, then you'll also know who to blame for it.

As I have stated several times now, LGS have to create ways to make profits and to get me into the store and that starts by supporting the game(s) I want to play. How they wanna do that, is up to them. But charging more than double of what I can get somewhere else (MM isnt WalMart and a huge company putting mom and pa places out of business) than thats just a poor business practice. And if you cant do what MM does, then you better come up with an inventive way of getting my cash. Otherwise theyll be out of business whether I buy from them or not.

~D

It kind of sucks my LGS owner treated me the way they did because it is a nice store and is well stocked. I just can't see giving my hard earned money to some one that treats me the way that they did.

For me using an online store is not about getting things at a cheaper price. I knew about online shopping being cheaper before back when I wanted to support my LGS. I spent well over $1000 in X-WING at my LGS before they treated me bad. It's about principle. Treat me like crap and I will not give you my money.

Alright, if you want me to explain it even more:

No need, if you feel that the lowest price is all that matters then buy where you want . But when your LGS' all close, then you'll also know who to blame for it.

But either way I'm not going to bother reading or posting in this thread again. It will be nothing more then the same arguments made by both sides, and neither side will change it's mind.

Lowest price means a lot. These aren't blankets and vaccines, they are luxury items. Everytime I buy a $15 figure I weigh that money against my responsibility to provide for my wife and kids. As is, IA is affordable. If the price goes up too much, I won't be able to justify buying a $25 hunk of plastic.

The problem with online stores is they aren't really fair competition, FFG products for whatever reason are way more heavily discounted than other games.

Dengar for example is $6.89 online vs $9.95 MSRP, but a $10.99 MSRP Infinity pack costs $8.79 online. A $45 Team Yankey pack costs $40 online. I'm not sure why FFG gets such a deeper discount, but it makes it very hard for the LGS to compete.

The deeper discount is likely a function of product turnover (how quickly it is sold) and/or volume (how much of it is sold). You get less of a discount on Team Yankee or Infinity because that item sits for a much longer time and/or sell in much lower quantity.

Which could well be part of the reason behind FFG/Asmodee's action--to slow down sales enough that people don't get burned out or decide that they have "enough" or even "too much".

Alright, if you want me to explain it even more:

No need, if you feel that the lowest price is all that matters then buy where you want . But when your LGS' all close, then you'll also know who to blame for it.

But either way I'm not going to bother reading or posting in this thread again. It will be nothing more then the same arguments made by both sides, and neither side will change it's mind.

Lowest price means a lot. These aren't blankets and vaccines, they are luxury items. Everytime I buy a $15 figure I weigh that money against my responsibility to provide for my wife and kids. As is, IA is affordable. If the price goes up too much, I won't be able to justify buying a $25 hunk of plastic.

I'm in the same boat. I can only look at the wife sheepishly and say "At least its not hookers!" for so long.

I just take consolation that they will eventually run out of Lucas Star Wars, and the collection will be complete. It has a firm ending point (unlike magic, and that's why I don't play anymore).

Alright, if you want me to explain it even more:

No need, if you feel that the lowest price is all that matters then buy where you want . But when your LGS' all close, then you'll also know who to blame for it.

But either way I'm not going to bother reading or posting in this thread again. It will be nothing more then the same arguments made by both sides, and neither side will change it's mind.

Lowest price means a lot. These aren't blankets and vaccines, they are luxury items. Everytime I buy a $15 figure I weigh that money against my responsibility to provide for my wife and kids. As is, IA is affordable. If the price goes up too much, I won't be able to justify buying a $25 hunk of plastic.

I'm in the same boat. I can only look at the wife sheepishly and say "At least its not hookers!" for so long.

I just take consolation that they will eventually run out of Lucas Star Wars, and the collection will be complete. It has a firm ending point (unlike magic, and that's why I don't play anymore).

Everybody is saying that if LGS close that FFG won't be able to sell games. Lets put this into some perspective. First they will be selling to places like walmart, target and the like. Which means either they will discount it a little or not at all. Which in turn will mean that not many people will make the purchase because of the many reasons that have been posted. So that means that stock will sit on the shelves and not move that fast. Then after some time those stores will clearance it out to make room for new games and such. Which in turn means that there will not be many expansions for it or not at all depending. Because of this FFG will be moving on to another type of game because of the level of interest in that game. So there will be a mad flood of different games because they need to make money. So in retrospect the notion that game company's will go out of business with out the specialized hobby FLGS is complete bs because as long as there is a retail outlet for it. It will end up being on some shelf.

Now some back story for me on how I happen to have learned about all these wonderful games from different companies. I never learned about them from the FLGS. I learned about them from people that I have played games with. I have played them at their houses and from the game night that we both me and my wife run. I met her about 7 years ago from going to the game night that she ran. It is run at a local restaurant. That is how I learned about ascension, dominion and other games. How I learned about FFG was that the other person that helped her run the gaming group had Doom the board game. I love doom and had to have the board game. So I searched ebay and found a copy. That was the first FFG game that I have ever owned. Now how I learned about Imperial assault and others was. First the same person that showed me Doom also showed me IA on FFG's web page. So it is not FLGS's that showed it to me or anything like that. Some times the best way to get your product into others hands is not always because of a store. It is by word of mouth and word of mouth can be either positive or negative. It just depends on the size if it is negative. It can really hinder sales of that product.

Now with the addition of the online shopping that will help get the product into more peoples hands. So if people play it in their homes or not FFG will make money. There are game stores that charge to go to play there. They will make purchases of some type. That could be either food, or other purchases. Depending on where it is held. Since ours is at a restaurant. You could get away with a 2.50 refillable soft drink. Which could lead to a purchase of another game or expansion and yes there are people that will not purchase anything there. Ok that happens in any retail establishment. I just think that trying to force people to purchase it thourgh LGS instead of where they can get the best deal that works for them. Well that will turn them away from purchasing said games.

My one question to people who feel that the LGS is the only way to buy them. Do you buy everything at MSRP? Like electronics, clothing, music, or even food? I bet the ones that feel that MSRP is the way to pay for these clip coupons to save some money. So why cant people save money on these games?

That's awesome that your wife plays this game with you Supersayian! I wish my wife would play.

Everybody is saying that if LGS close that FFG won't be able to sell games.

The idea that big box retailers will stock FFG in a real way is just laughable. Walmart and Target are not going to devote shelf space to stocking to anything else but the occasional X-wing Core Set, they aren't going to touch many of the other games at all let alone the dozens of expansions each entails.

If all a game shop can expect from supporting a game is tournament entry fres, concessions, and the occasional impulse buy; they are just going to stick to Yugioh, Magic, Pokemin, and Dicemasters. They can fit more of those players in the same space, those games will routinely draw better, and thier impulse buys are easier to stock, cheaper to stock, and will move quicker.

This isn't about altruism or buying local just to by local, this is about acting in one's own self interest. If you want a shop to play at regularly and a to hold events; you have to compensate them for the added service. Expecting to buy everything online at a lower price and still have stores to play at is insane, and yet it is exactly what alot of players do. FFG at this point has concluded, that in the long term that situation hurts thier ability to move thier product, so they are taking steps to correct it. There are other steps I think they should also take, but yeah they need to take this one. As other posters have pointend out the rate at which FFG products are discounted online is atypical.

Sorry everyone I did not mean to start such a heated topic. I under stand why that Fantasy Flight is doing this I was just wondering about the people that don't have a access to a FLGS. That's all. Once again sorry if anyone was offered in some way.

So wait, I will admit I haven't done the full research on this topic but come April we could start seeing FFG products in Wal-Marts?

And while we are on the topic of under cutting local FGS stores because of greedy owners, any Canadians want to share their favourite online stores?

The Americans have it so easy, so many options, but so far for myself at least in Central Canada I haven't been able to locate a good online retailer. Amazon.ca is just a mess right now (thanks Harper).

That's awesome that your wife plays this game with you Supersayian! I wish my wife would play.

~D

Everybody is saying that if LGS close that FFG won't be able to sell games.

This isn't about altruism or buying local just to by local, this is about acting in one's own self interest. If you want a shop to play at regularly and a to hold events; you have to compensate them for the added service. Expecting to buy everything online at a lower price and still have stores to play at is insane, and yet it is exactly what alot of players do. FFG at this point has concluded, that in the long term that situation hurts thier ability to move thier product, so they are taking steps to correct it. There are other steps I think they should also take, but yeah they need to take this one. As other posters have pointend out the rate at which FFG products are discounted online is atypical.

I don't have a game shop to play at or buy these games. My only available resource is online. So my own self interest includes being able to buy these games online. As far as the discount... if the discount is atypical, that suggests to me that FFG's MSRP must be atypically HIGH compared to other games. There are two things that draw customer loyalty: Quality and price. People eat at McDonalds because it is cheap. People eat at a fancy restaurant for the quality, and are willing to pay more. People do not shop at FLGS's for the price apparently, or else this wouldn't be an issues. And so, the FLGS must do SOMETHING to increase their quality. Many suggestions have been posted, but it is just that simple. It is not the responsibility of the gamer to keep the game store in business, it is the responsibility of the game store to keep the gamer interested, either through promotions, discounts, events, or free pedicures.

Legally, I don't think they can do that ( give product to some and not others to sell ). They way it used to ( and maybe still is now, I don't know) was that premier stores were able to get a small amount of product directly from the company at a rate cheaper than what stores got it from distributors. I don't think that would be an option here, because of volume.

I understand buying things for cheap. I got the base set off amazon. Saving $40 was just too good to pass up.

But, you need to be able to look past just how things are with you and try to look at the market as a whole.

There are people who will never step foot in a store to play imperial assault. There are people who play magic who have never played in a tournament and just play with family and or friends. But, that isn't everyone and not everyone has that option available to them.

In order for a store to support a game, there has to be something in it for them. Just selling drinks and snacks isn't going to cover it. And FFG wants / needs local stores to support it as well. If people are going to deep discount everything, eventually the support from the stores will die along with the game. So, there needs to be a balance. And in the long run, you want to support the stores, because without them, their sales, and support, the game will die. And the deep discounted will move on to the next thing they can sell. Not caring one way or another about the games, other than pennies they make per transaction.

Correct, they cannot withhold sellers from obtaining product to sell upon release.

FFG is down the street from the me but I buy mostly from MM. Why? Cost and convenience. I would not buy everything IA and X-wing at MSRP (in fact, I doubt I'd own any of it but as it stands I buy it all at the discounted online rate). I'm also not a tourney player; I'll participate in a few freebies at FFG occasionally but that circus is not my cup of tea anymore (probably because I'm older).

Now, MM is a pretty big store and they do both in house and online sales. That's the ticket. MM doesn't make huge margins selling online but revenue pays the bills and allows them to meet payroll, which keeps them open. Events bring in enough people where they sell a fair amount MSRP (which is where they really make the money).

The bigger the market a FLGS is in, the more product they can diversify on (board game, minis, comics, merch). I would say stores need to look at the online sales to stay competitive. FLGS's in smaller markets will struggle with this and as such they must choose carefully what to stock in order to keep their costs down.

End game: Raising the prices online will simple hurt the gaming community as a whole. Less volume across all products means less revenue which will eventually kill off several product lines.

Everybody is saying that if LGS close that FFG won't be able to sell games.

The reason people are saying this, is because FFG has said this. You know FFG the company that makes the games and has the most vested interest in the distribution of the product? They are the ones saying that brick and mortar shops are paramount to the long term ability to sell thier games. Hell, it's thier stated reason for this move.

While this may be the reason they are giving publicly, I'm almost wondering if the issue is something else.

No need, if you feel that the lowest price is all that matters then buy where you want. But when your LGS' all close, then you'll also know who to blame for it.

And you havent read a single thing Ive said. If all it comes down to is price, then who wouldnt go for the cheaper price? And im not talking 50 cents or 10%...this is a 50% difference. Also, if you arent aware, MM and Cardhaus ARE local game stores, they just happen to do a fine good job at selling nationally and probably globally .

~D

FFG is not the only one who has clamped down on online retailers recently. I've heard some rumblings that many of the US online retailers are selling internationally and that's supposedly a no-no. Retailers are only supposed to sell within a certain region per contracts and when they sell internationally it steps on distribution contracts with other international markets and may even end up getting products into regions that FFG is not even approved to be sold within.

That's awesome that your wife plays this game with you Supersayian! I wish my wife would play.

I am really lucky for her. She is pretty much the female version of me. We have so many similar tastes that we have a lot of things we can do together. Plus we have enough that we can do things seperate also. I hope that your wife will play these games with you in the future.

So wait, I will admit I haven't done the full research on this topic but come April we could start seeing FFG products in Wal-Marts?

And while we are on the topic of under cutting local FGS stores because of greedy owners, any Canadians want to share their favourite online stores?

The Americans have it so easy, so many options, but so far for myself at least in Central Canada I haven't been able to locate a good online retailer. Amazon.ca is just a mess right now (thanks Harper).

I am not saying that they will be there. I am meaning if LGS are not available. They could sell to Wal-mart and target. We also picked up 7 wonders which Asmodee ownes and is sold at target. Which we picked up during the target games sale of buy two get one free. So to restate it is a viable alternative to LGS if (all as some people say) go out of business. As long as there is a retail chain that will sell them they will be sold. The profit margins will change and prices could go up. Look at GW because they did the same thing. They also reported losing money which I don't want to see any company lose money but my money along with others does only go so far.

If you want to support LGS and have the money to do that by all means go for it. Others like myself can't and we should not be limited to only buying at LGS. I respect people that can. Others should try to understand not everybody can do the same things at they do. Just my final two cents worth on this subject.

When is the price hike expected to take effect? I just checked MM and the prices seem to be the same as they always were (at least, the same since I began shopping there).

You keep saying that FFG could sell products in Walmart or Target. Not only is that concept laughable but it's missing the whole lot of the point of why FFG wants brick and mortar game stores to consistently carry thier product.

First, in regards to the idea that Walmart and Target would stock FFG's stuff. You're basing this on the fact that you bought an X-wing Core Set and 7 Wonders at a Target once? So because Target will stock a Core Set to FFGs most popular line and Asmodee's biggest board game, they'd stock full lines of FFGs product? You've got to be nuts, do you see how many SKUs X-wing has, or IA, or even Armada? How much space do you think a big box retailer is going to give to niche gaming products? They devote a 1 foot space on the bottom of a corner shelf to 4-5 X-wing Core Sets, they carry none of the expansions, and you'd think they start carrying the 2nd string Star Wars line in a real way? They don't even carry less niche gaming products like MTG and Pokémon in a real way. They get maybe some shelf space that rarely gets restocked near the registers next to baseball card and As Seen on TV products.

Walmart and Target are not real distribution channels for FFG products. They are promotional.

Secondly, even if a big box retailer were to stock FFG products in a real way, do you think Walmart is going to start holding open game nights and tournaments? Because that is pretty much the whole reason FFG wants to keep thier products in brick and mortar stores. FFG has made the determination that brick and mortar stores create and drive the market for thier products by running events and providing players with a space to meet and play the games in. Even if Target or Walmart were to stock more FFG product (which isn't going to happen in a real way) they won't be providing the space for those game to be played in a public venue. That's exactly the benefit FFG wants brick and mortar stores to continue to provide to thier products. FFG realizes that won't happen if stores are unable to sell FFG products because they can't even remotely match prices with online retailers, because up until FFG decided to change the terms those online retailers were getting the same rate as brick and mortar stores that provide a service FFG wants to maintain. Online retailers were just reaping the benefits of in equitable distribution model.