So Miranda ability:

Once per round when attacking, you may either spend 1 shield to roll 1 additional attack die or roll 1 fewer attack die to recover 1 shield.

So can you roll 1 few attack die to recover a shield even if you have no damage? Yes there is a reason why I'm wondering this.

If I have gunner on her and I remove one dice from TLT to miss on purpose, to thus triggering gunner. Even at full shields.

I never did this, but someone mentioned I should be able too. I searched Q&A, but no luck.

I thinking I could because according to other FFG ruling you can always spend a token even it you don't roll what you need to spend the token (Garvin, Keyan, etc)

Thanks,

Ok... so you spend lose a die to regen a shield, which you cannot do, to help miss. Triggering gunner to attack with your primary... but why?

You don't have tactician to add a stress... so I'm just failing the why of it.

If you trust your 2 die primary attack to do two damage, or at least one critical, over your 3 die TLT, then go for it.

But, hardly a "dirty trick" even if it does work.

So what would be the goal of this? Attack with the TLT, hit on the first shot, then deliberately miss on the second shot so Gunner procs? So you're getting three attacks, but two of them are only being made with two dice (3 at R1)?

Well normally at the start of the game I always lost a shield on the first turn I can shoot on purpose. Depedning on who I'm fighting.

Then when I shoot them with a TLT at full strength on the first shot, usually I hit for one, then I lower it on the 2nd shot, to miss thus triggering gunner , which allows me to fire primary which is a turret. I usually do this at range 1. Basically I get two shots in the same round on the same target.

I use it on my TLT killers list.

I have JAN in my list also

It might not cause a lot of damage, if any, but the more dice you throw at a guy the more likely you are to strip his tokens.

Versus 1 agility ships, like TLT or Large ship, I do a lot of damage. People were using TLT's everywhere so I created this list to stop that in my Vassal group.

In any case, back to my main question?

Can I use Miranda's ability to lower my damage even if I have full shields?

I would say so.

But I have to agree with the consensus and ask why?

I would say so.

Great! I never even thought of doing that before, but the guy I was playing told me I could do it. Since it was near end game I had all my shields and wanted my gunner/ jan combo to proc.

Thanks,

Here is an example:

End game: Versus Whisper

I still had Janhawk, and Miranda Full Shields.

I fired with TLT at Whisper range 2, he has to decide to spend tokens on my first shot, if he doesn't (spend on the first shot, then 1 damage is fine by me.) He knows I will miss with my 2nd shot and proc my gunner, which will then be boosted by jan.

In this case he spent tokens to avoid the hit, I used jan and boost my damage up to 3, then I range 2 on whisper with 3 dice. This works on many other ships too. It's great versus low agility ships, hit them once with TLT, then miss them and hit them with your main guns.

People online I have played with hate this combo

I'm going to argue that you can't recover what you're not missing. I don't think you can pay a cost for something you can't do like getting a stress if you have no legal push the limit actions. Additionally I'm still mega confused what benefit missing (maybe) one of your tlt shots is to get either range 1 shots on a different ship or a 2 die primary on the ship you tlt'd at. A 2 die primary doesn't seem likely to hit if a 2 die tlt shot triggered gunner.

I'm going to argue that you can't recover what you're not missing. I don't think you can pay a cost for something you can't do like getting a stress if you have no legal push the limit actions. Additionally I'm still mega confused what benefit missing (maybe) one of your tlt shots is to get either range 1 shots on a different ship or a 2 die primary on the ship you tlt'd at. A 2 die primary doesn't seem likely to hit if a 2 die tlt shot triggered gunner.

Again, I using HwkJan to boost my attack back up to 3. It gives me options to shoot other targets and still fire again at someone in range 1, with a boost from jan, because I miss them. Or even the same target at range 2 with both attacks.

As for you points, why can Keyan spend a stress if hey doesn't roll any focuses, why can garven spend a focus if he doesn't roll any?

The point of this is to be able to plink something with a TLT shot, and to intentionally miss the second shot so that you can fire at something range 1.

Also, outside of range 1 you may actually want to peg something with the primary as it can do more than one regular damage. Attack something that you'll miss against and then gunner to try and get a hit crit on a Decimator.

You could also use this to fire at a target with the TLT, hope to hit with first attack, drop down to miss on 2nd attack and use Gunner to attack a different target with your primary.

Edit:

I can theoretically imagine a scenario where this is to your advantage:

1: TLT 3-dice first shot, spend your focus to improve your roll and strip tokens from the defender.

2: TLT 2-dice second shot, no modifiers, hope to miss to trigger Gunner or Luke Skywalker.

3: Primary 2-dice third shot, boosted to 3-dice with Jan, modified with Luke (1 eyeball to a hit) and your stored Target Lock... good chance at 3 hit/crit results.

So the question is, if Miranda is at full shields, can she make step 2 above happen legally?

Potential 4 damage from your TLT? I kind of like this idea...

As for you points, why can Keyan spend a stress if hey doesn't roll any focuses, why can garven spend a focus if he doesn't roll any?

Those are different than this. Spending a focus (or stress for keyan) turns all eyeballs to hits. If the number of eyeballs that exist is 0 you are turning all 0 of them to hits, successfully completing the ability. For Miranda you are spending 1 attack die to recover 1 shield. If you cannot recover 1 shield, you cannot spend 1 attack die. Similarly if you have push the limit and damaged sensor array on Soontir you can try to repair the array and if you fail you cannot just get a stress from push the limit for fun since it's 1 stress for 1 action on your bar so no legal action means you cannot get that stress.

I can theoretically imagine a scenario where this is to your advantage:

1: TLT 3-dice first shot, spend your focus to improve your roll and strip tokens from the defender.

2: TLT 2-dice second shot, no modifiers, hope to miss to trigger Gunner or Luke Skywalker.

3: Primary 2-dice third shot, boosted to 3-dice with Jan, modified with Luke (1 eyeball to a hit) and your stored Target Lock... good chance at 3 hit/crit results.

So the question is, if Miranda is at full shields, can she make step 2 above happen legally?

Potential 4 damage from your TLT? I kind of like this idea...

This is exactly my question from the first thread? I'm just wondering so people don't go crazy on me if I try it.

Plus for my list luke is too expensive, but I have tried. It's hard to come up with 2 extra points

As for you points, why can Keyan spend a stress if hey doesn't roll any focuses, why can garven spend a focus if he doesn't roll any?

I'm torn on whether this use of Miranda's ability is legal. Unlike with Keyan and Garven, who may spend a token to change zero focus results to zero hits, Miranda does specify a number. She says "recover 1 shield". If you are at full shields, I'm not sure whether you are allowed to recover any shields, because there's nothing to recover. And since 0 =/= 1, I tend to think her recover clause isn't possible, thus preventing you from executing the payment step.

But I don't know. If I were your opponent, barring an FAQ entry specifying otherwise in the near future, I wouldn't have a problem with you doing it.

This is exactly my question from the first thread? I'm just wondering so people don't go crazy on me if I try it.

Plus for my list luke is too expensive, but I have tried. It's hard to come up with 2 extra points

I don't have an answer. But I buy Nigeltastic's reasoning in arriving at a "no" answer.

I think I will explain it to each opponent before I play. Right now when I think I'm going to do this I always lose a shield the turn before, but it is something I want to understand a ruling on.

Pretty sure cluster missles trigger gunner ONLY if both attacks fluff. Can't check the FAQ right now. Wouldn't TLT be the same?

Pretty sure cluster missles trigger gunner ONLY if both attacks fluff. Can't check the FAQ right now. Wouldn't TLT be the same?

If the first attack hits but the second one misses, Gunner can trigger off of the second attack. If the first one misses and you trigger Gunner, you do forfeit the second attack.

Yep. You are right Sparklelord.

Pretty sure cluster missles trigger gunner ONLY if both attacks fluff. Can't check the FAQ right now. Wouldn't TLT be the same?

You are right on Cluster Missiles. [EDIT: Duh. If you change the question from Gunner to Munitions Failsafe, you are right. Thanks for the enlightening Ninja, Sparkelord.]

But Gunner MUST trigger off either TLT miss, which means the three-shot shenanigans I suggested will not proc if you miss on the first TLT shot.

TLT: "Perform this attack twice..."

Gunner: "After you perform an attack that does not hit, [you must] immediately perform a primary weapon attack. You cannot perform another attack this round."