I find threads that are basically nothing but complaints distasteful, whether it's complaining about how FFG does things, or how much the Imperials suck, or how much a given ship needs a fix, or how people should stop complaining.

Most of the complaint threads are a waste of space and energy (we are in one of them), [...]

That' because there aren't any new updates or releases

Well said !!! Life is hard enought to enrage here. Ahhhh...Rage... Wave 8...

[...] What I cannot abide are posts that just knock the business model with no real reason...

My example being the card issue - we know that's how the process is we just have to deal with it. Ffg are a company who want to make money, putting a card in one very expensive box works, just moaning does nothing!

[...]

Just a side note: I don't know what you mean by "what I cannot abide" or to what extent you mean that.

Nevertheless we don't know if whining about it has no affect. We have heard that the designers read this board even if they don't post. So if there are enough disgruntled players complaining about a particular part of their business practice then maybe, just maybe that part might change. I'm looking at you Upgrade Card only Expansion package.

Just a thought.

[...] What I cannot abide are posts that just knock the business model with no real reason...

My example being the card issue - we know that's how the process is we just have to deal with it. Ffg are a company who want to make money, putting a card in one very expensive box works, just moaning does nothing!

[...]

Just a side note: I don't know what you mean by "what I cannot abide" or to what extent you mean that.

Nevertheless we don't know if whining about it has no affect. We have heard that the designers read this board even if they don't post. So if there are enough disgruntled players complaining about a particular part of their business practice then maybe, just maybe that part might change. I'm looking at you Upgrade Card only Expansion package.

and

Just a thought.

I understand that however shouldn't they have more... Substance? I work with unemployed young adults who, unfortunately seem to operate a 'mindless moaning' modus operandi.

For interest and education sake;

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/abide

It's a wonderful word!

For interest and education sake;

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/abide

It's a wonderful word!

an interesting word to be sure and I understand the definition. I assumed that you were using it as a verb and it meant: to put up with; tolerate; stand. So I think my comments were correct when I said I didn't know what you meant to what extent when you say 'you cannot abide, cannot put up with, tolerate' someone's behavior? If you cannot tolerate someone's actions does that imply a reaction from you to prevent them from doing it again?

I had a boss that often said 'that is unacceptable' yet often he has no choice but to accept the outcome as pouting and raging on did nothing to change it.

...

To the people calling me childish for using the word 'frak' over the word it obviously represents I am sorry you feel that way - it's a habbit I picked up from old gamesworkshop forums and assumed it was better than using the full expletive - in the future I'll bring the full force of my colourful language...

...

Here I remember picking up that little bit of language off broadcast TV a loooooong time ago. It was a commonly used expletive for Colonial pilots back in the day. I might expect a few grandparents to use that word.

...

To the people calling me childish for using the word 'frak' over the word it obviously represents I am sorry you feel that way - it's a habbit I picked up from old gamesworkshop forums and assumed it was better than using the full expletive - in the future I'll bring the full force of my colourful language...

...

Here I remember picking up that little bit of language off broadcast TV a loooooong time ago. It was a commonly used expletive for Colonial pilots back in the day. I might expect a few grandparents to use that word.

Also revitalized in the reboot of BSG a few years ago.

Really - maybe that's where we got it from? Regardless, I found it apt to the setting here rather than just using a rude Ord...

God forbid people express their opinions on the internet!

But when we come right down to it, free speech includes my right to tell you to shut up. What it does really is prevent me from actually making you do so.

It's nothing to do with free speech, it's about what people are annoyed at hearing. You might dislike people who moan, I might dislike people who tell other people to shut up. Nothing to do with free speech.

So.... I have a feeling i'll get shot down by some here but I really don't care and YES, I know that this is a forum and I don't have to read stuff that people post...

I am really fed up with people moaning about 2 things...

Firstly, that certain ships need FIXES in the form of upgrade cards or else they are useless and aren't playable at all

and secondly, that these fixes along with some other cards are only in certain packs and that this is a major failing on FFGs part...

So, my input to this is the following...

SHUT THE FRAK UP...

there, I said it.... wait, let me go a little more indepth...

The first point about the fixes is totally wrong... all ship are playable. They come in a box with the ship and the stem and some neat little chits to put in the base and some pilot cards.. FFG are also kind enough to provide a dial... there! magic, its playable! now, I agree that some upgrade cards make some ships "better" (that is, more cost effective) but they are by no means useless without them. People seems to jump (here and on facebook) on new players who even mention the TIE/Advance with "OMG NO!!! you CANNOT run it wihtout the raider expansion!!! NO NO NO!!!"... well... why not? people can run what ever they want surely? and, especially in friendly, fly casual games - why not run an advance without the title? Same with integrated astromech, sure it's a great card - not needed though.

I think a lot of the internet uglies have a problem in deciphering between "NEED" and "WANT", maybe it has something to do with an unfulfilled upbringing, who knows...

Integrated Astromechs lead me in to my next point - people moaning about the availability of some cards... Well... get over it - that's just the sale method they have chosen. People don't complain about the rarity of popular Magic cards or Pokemon Cards. NONE of the cards are NEEDED for any ship to fly so either get the cards you want/need by buying the ships OR use different cards.... but either way, drop the moaning...

At the end of the day, we must remember that we are pushing models of pretend ships around a table and make believing that they are shooting each other - get a grip

says the guy in a royal guard TIE. im onto you baron fel...

Thank you for the many and varied replies - I won't reply to each each and every rather I will clear some issues up...

I'm all up for free speach - but not of a pointless variety (yes. I see the irony of a post moaning about posts that moan...). I thoroughly enjoy reading posts like 'how would you improve...', 'whst ship would you change.. ' etc etc... What I cannot abide are posts that just knock the business model with no real reason...

My example being the card issue - we know that's how the process is we just have to deal with it. Ffg are a company who want to make money, putting a card in one very expensive box works, just moaning does nothing!

And no, this post wasn't aimed at anyone in particular - nor was it written with any venom nor any real anger. As I said at the end of my OP, we play a game of pretend space combat, a little levity goes a long way and I tend not to take it overly seriously.

To the people calling me childish for using the word 'frak' over the word it obviously represents I am sorry you feel that way - it's a habbit I picked up from old gamesworkshop forums and assumed it was better than using the full expletive - in the future I'll bring the full force of my colourful language...

Fly easy

Soontir

Sounds like I've just not noticed the posts you're talking about. As you say, there's nothing wrong with people proposing "fixes" to things, which is what I assumed you were talking about in the OP as I haven't really noticed many "moaning" posts. If anything, I think people get shot down for "moaning" when all they're doing is discussing and suggesting, especially by a number of people who seem to take any perceived slight against FFG personally and won't hear of anything they've made being less than perfect.

People seems to jump (here and on facebook) on new players who even mention the TIE/Advance with "OMG NO!!! you CANNOT run it wihtout the raider expansion!!! NO NO NO!!!"... well... why not? people can run what ever they want surely? and, especially in friendly, fly casual games - why not run an advance without the title? Same with integrated astromech, sure it's a great card - not needed though.

"Cannot run it" is an abbreviation for "cannot run it without shooting yourself in the foot." The TIE advanced x1 really was in that bad a state, hence the explosive fix cards for it.

So.... I have a feeling i'll get shot down by some here but I really don't care and YES, I know that this is a forum and I don't have to read stuff that people post...

I am really fed up with people moaning about 2 things...

Firstly, that certain ships need FIXES in the form of upgrade cards or else they are useless and aren't playable at all

and secondly, that these fixes along with some other cards are only in certain packs and that this is a major failing on FFGs part...

So, my input to this is the following...

SHUT THE FRAK UP...

there, I said it.... wait, let me go a little more indepth...

The first point about the fixes is totally wrong... all ship are playable. They come in a box with the ship and the stem and some neat little chits to put in the base and some pilot cards.. FFG are also kind enough to provide a dial... there! magic, its playable! now, I agree that some upgrade cards make some ships "better" (that is, more cost effective) but they are by no means useless without them. People seems to jump (here and on facebook) on new players who even mention the TIE/Advance with "OMG NO!!! you CANNOT run it wihtout the raider expansion!!! NO NO NO!!!"... well... why not? people can run what ever they want surely? and, especially in friendly, fly casual games - why not run an advance without the title? Same with integrated astromech, sure it's a great card - not needed though.

I think a lot of the internet uglies have a problem in deciphering between "NEED" and "WANT", maybe it has something to do with an unfulfilled upbringing, who knows...

Integrated Astromechs lead me in to my next point - people moaning about the availability of some cards... Well... get over it - that's just the sale method they have chosen. People don't complain about the rarity of popular Magic cards or Pokemon Cards. NONE of the cards are NEEDED for any ship to fly so either get the cards you want/need by buying the ships OR use different cards.... but either way, drop the moaning...

At the end of the day, we must remember that we are pushing models of pretend ships around a table and make believing that they are shooting each other - get a grip

says the guy in a royal guard TIE. im onto you baron fel...

Good point!

I play squints and started buying the imp aces set, then wanting Fel I bought the ceptors blister. Then wanting more ptl and rgt I bought ANOTHER aces box...

I didn't cone to the forum moaning that Fel should have been in the aces box or that they should have put 4 push the limits in the box... No, I just bought them. And, I wanted the 'fix' in Autothrusters, so I bought 2 Starvipers... I Wanted those cards, so I bought them - no mindless moaning involved

Thank you for the many and varied replies - I won't reply to each each and every rather I will clear some issues up...

I'm all up for free speach - but not of a pointless variety (yes. I see the irony of a post moaning about posts that moan...). I thoroughly enjoy reading posts like 'how would you improve...', 'whst ship would you change.. ' etc etc... What I cannot abide are posts that just knock the business model with no real reason...

My example being the card issue - we know that's how the process is we just have to deal with it. Ffg are a company who want to make money, putting a card in one very expensive box works, just moaning does nothing!

And no, this post wasn't aimed at anyone in particular - nor was it written with any venom nor any real anger. As I said at the end of my OP, we play a game of pretend space combat, a little levity goes a long way and I tend not to take it overly seriously.

To the people calling me childish for using the word 'frak' over the word it obviously represents I am sorry you feel that way - it's a habbit I picked up from old gamesworkshop forums and assumed it was better than using the full expletive - in the future I'll bring the full force of my colourful language...

Fly easy

Soontir

Sounds like I've just not noticed the posts you're talking about. As you say, there's nothing wrong with people proposing "fixes" to things, which is what I assumed you were talking about in the OP as I haven't really noticed many "moaning" posts. If anything, I think people get shot down for "moaning" when all they're doing is discussing and suggesting, especially by a number of people who seem to take any perceived slight against FFG personally and won't hear of anything they've made being less than perfect.

Thank you for the many and varied replies - I won't reply to each each and every rather I will clear some issues up...

I'm all up for free speach - but not of a pointless variety (yes. I see the irony of a post moaning about posts that moan...). I thoroughly enjoy reading posts like 'how would you improve...', 'whst ship would you change.. ' etc etc... What I cannot abide are posts that just knock the business model with no real reason...

My example being the card issue - we know that's how the process is we just have to deal with it. Ffg are a company who want to make money, putting a card in one very expensive box works, just moaning does nothing!

And no, this post wasn't aimed at anyone in particular - nor was it written with any venom nor any real anger. As I said at the end of my OP, we play a game of pretend space combat, a little levity goes a long way and I tend not to take it overly seriously.

To the people calling me childish for using the word 'frak' over the word it obviously represents I am sorry you feel that way - it's a habbit I picked up from old gamesworkshop forums and assumed it was better than using the full expletive - in the future I'll bring the full force of my colourful language...

Fly easy

Soontir

Sounds like I've just not noticed the posts you're talking about. As you say, there's nothing wrong with people proposing "fixes" to things, which is what I assumed you were talking about in the OP as I haven't really noticed many "moaning" posts. If anything, I think people get shot down for "moaning" when all they're doing is discussing and suggesting, especially by a number of people who seem to take any perceived slight against FFG personally and won't hear of anything they've made being less than perfect.

Really? Don't think this OP is just a moan - nothing constructive just... Moaning

https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/202589-my-main-critic-about-ffg-policies/

Thank you for the many and varied replies - I won't reply to each each and every rather I will clear some issues up...

I'm all up for free speach - but not of a pointless variety (yes. I see the irony of a post moaning about posts that moan...). I thoroughly enjoy reading posts like 'how would you improve...', 'whst ship would you change.. ' etc etc... What I cannot abide are posts that just knock the business model with no real reason...

My example being the card issue - we know that's how the process is we just have to deal with it. Ffg are a company who want to make money, putting a card in one very expensive box works, just moaning does nothing!

And no, this post wasn't aimed at anyone in particular - nor was it written with any venom nor any real anger. As I said at the end of my OP, we play a game of pretend space combat, a little levity goes a long way and I tend not to take it overly seriously.

To the people calling me childish for using the word 'frak' over the word it obviously represents I am sorry you feel that way - it's a habbit I picked up from old gamesworkshop forums and assumed it was better than using the full expletive - in the future I'll bring the full force of my colourful language...

Fly easy

Soontir

Sounds like I've just not noticed the posts you're talking about. As you say, there's nothing wrong with people proposing "fixes" to things, which is what I assumed you were talking about in the OP as I haven't really noticed many "moaning" posts. If anything, I think people get shot down for "moaning" when all they're doing is discussing and suggesting, especially by a number of people who seem to take any perceived slight against FFG personally and won't hear of anything they've made being less than perfect.

Really? Don't think this OP is just a moan - nothing constructive just... Moaning

https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/202589-my-main-critic-about-ffg-policies/

Yes, that sounds like a moan, but I hadn't noticed that thread. It's possible that I saw it and didn't bother clicking because it's quite obvious what it is and it doesn't interest me. Plenty room on tintermawebs for other threads..

Really? Don't think this OP is just a moan - nothing constructive just... Moaning

https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/202589-my-main-critic-about-ffg-policies/

Why do you have a problem with that? Because you think that it makes the forum so negative that it is hostile to users? If so, your topic, which has now singled out another user, is a much better example of something like that.

You are not thinking. That thread that you cited to is an at least arguably reasonable complaint about a product. Consumers are supposed to voice their complaints about products. Companies are then aware of their customers' concerns and can choose whether or not to react in some way. Providing feedback that a company can use to make a change to better appeal to its customers is constructive. It isn't like that OP said that he wanted something ridiculous, like huge ships priced at $10.00. I know that FFG needs to make money, but it isn't like FFG is on the verge of insolvency.

Imagine how much better off you, as a consumer, would be if more people complained and companies had to react. Maybe the next iPhone would be compatible with the previous version's charger. Maybe Disney would greenlight another Tron movie. Maybe K-Cups would be biodegradable.

Or, what if people were more like you and dismissed criticism? JJ Abrams would still be lens flaring like a maniac. Cars wouldn't have cup holders. Zune would still be a thing.

Let it go. If FFG doesn't think that the criticism has merit, it will not respond. You can even respond and state your disagreement with a particular complaint. But, crusades against criticism like this are detrimental to consumers. You are a consumer. So am I. If some guy convinces FFG to take a 2 cent hit on the sale of each small ship by throwing another upgrade card into the clam shell, our lives will be slightly better because of it. They certainly are not going to jeopardize their business in order to appease him, so the worst case scenario is that the offending thread sinks slowly to the second page.

Really? Don't think this OP is just a moan - nothing constructive just... Moaninghttps://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/202589-my-main-critic-about-ffg-policies/

Why do you have a problem with that? Because you think that it makes the forum so negative that it is hostile to users? If so, your topic, which has now singled out another user, is a much better example of something like that.

You are not thinking. That thread that you cited to is an at least arguably reasonable complaint about a product. Consumers are supposed to voice their complaints about products. Companies are then aware of their customers' concerns and can choose whether or not to react in some way. Providing feedback that a company can use to make a change to better appeal to its customers is constructive. It isn't like that OP said that he wanted something ridiculous, like huge ships priced at $10.00. I know that FFG needs to make money, but it isn't like FFG is on the verge of insolvency.

Imagine how much better off you, as a consumer, would be if more people complained and companies had to react. Maybe the next iPhone would be compatible with the previous version's charger. Maybe Disney would greenlight another Tron movie. Maybe K-Cups would be biodegradable.

Or, what if people were more like you and dismissed criticism? JJ Abrams would still be lens flaring like a maniac. Cars wouldn't have cup holders. Zune would still be a thing.

Let it go. If FFG doesn't think that the criticism has merit, it will not respond. You can even respond and state your disagreement with a particular complaint. But, crusades against criticism like this are detrimental to consumers. You are a consumer. So am I. If some guy convinces FFG to take a 2 cent hit on the sale of each small ship by throwing another upgrade card into the clam shell, our lives will be slightly better because of it. They certainly are not going to jeopardize their business in order to appease him, so the worst case scenario is that the offending thread sinks slowly to the second page.

I completely agree! However, ffg have a comments form for direct contact. If it is so imperative that ffg hear this very important feedback then why not use that rather than complain on a Forum?

Good point, but combined voices are more likely to be noticed. Besides, posting on the forum makes it public and you can argue against him, if you are so inclined.

A player wanting their favorite card/ship/unit etc fixed comes with the territory of any gaming community. Fortunately, or maybe unfortunately at times FFG is one of the rare companies that listens.. which then increases the demand.

Nothing to do with free speech.

Yes it does, at least in as much as we have free speech here. Not so much in the first amendment form but rather in the we can't stop someone from posting what they want here.

I can post a thread complaining about something and there is nothing you can do about it. The most you can do is report it to the moderators.

If we are accept that people are allowed to complain about one thing then we have to accept that other people can complain about other things. Our opinion about how valid those complaints are simply doesn't matter. Either people can complain about whatever they want, and we let the mods sort it out... Or else all posts that are complaints need to be removed.

Hey look guys -maybe I just love this forum too much... I see some truly stellar posts here; the repaints thread is full of some of the best repaints on the Web, excellent podcast updates from S+V and mynocks, several excellent strategy based posts and the always interesting battle reports section where I spend way to much time lurking and reading... Then I see horrible, moaning posts with no real content and I feel cheated and this in turn makes me feel passionate.

Nothing to do with free speech.

Yes it does, at least in as much as we have free speech here. Not so much in the first amendment form but rather in the we can't stop someone from posting what they want here.I can post a thread complaining about something and there is nothing you can do about it. The most you can do is report it to the moderators.If we are accept that people are allowed to complain about one thing then we have to accept that other people can complain about other things. Our opinion about how valid those complaints are simply doesn't matter. Either people can complain about whatever they want, and we let the mods sort it out... Or else all posts that are complaints need to be removed.

Has anybody said you shouldn't be allowed to do or say anything? This thread is criticism, not censorship. Criticism does not diminish your freedom of speech.