I'm GMing a campaign and my melee characters are look into Move to have ranged combat while still only using lightsabers. I understand it's basic abilities and upgrades except combat checks. The main thats confusing me is "ranged combat checks".

If the character wanted to throw a small rock at one opponent at short range. He would roll to activate 1 pip, but then needs to make a ranged combat check. Is this a agility vs range check? Say 2 agility (greens) on 1 purple for short range? What about spending 2 pips to move a statue over on top of something. If they are trying to crush a force sensitive, is there an opposed check? In this situation who would roll, say a vigilance check to avoid the statue falling.

I'm also introducing force sensitive enemies soon and wanted to show them how to fight with just the force. Can anyone give me advice on opposed checks over all and what is the best time to use them.

For the Hurl upgrade, the other core books (looking at AoR core) say it's a Discipline check with a difficulty equal to the silhouette of the object being moved. I know there was a discussion when the F&D core came out about the change, but I don't remember if it was an error or they changed it for reasons.

Ranged attacks are Discipline vs Silhouette of the object. Technically this means Sil0 (which still does 5 base damage) is unopposed, but I'd still give it a minimum of Easy. If you're throwing at a Nemesis, it could be opposed by the NPC's Discipline instead of Silhouette.

For other opposed checks, a lot depends on the situation, but I think it's safe to say the default for opposed checks is Discipline vs Discipline. You have to use your judgement. If, for example, a PC wanted to pull a gun out of an NPC's hand, it might be opposed by nothing (for a single minion), or by Discipline, Athletics, or even Coordination for other NPCs.

For the Hurl upgrade, the other core books (looking at AoR core) say it's a Discipline check with a difficulty equal to the silhouette of the object being moved. I know there was a discussion when the F&D core came out about the change, but I don't remember if it was an error or they changed it for reasons.

The was no alteration made. The Force and Destiny CRB simply does not contain the word "Discipline" there on that page. Since there is no skill specified, it is not a change, but rather an omission.

Looking at the big picture, it would still be a Discipline check. Each CRB is completely compatible with the others, so they're not going to be introducing different rules for the exact same Force power without also introducing errata for the other two core rulebooks. IMO, it is obviously an editing oversight and nothing more, but the power functions exactly the same way.

The was no alteration made. The Force and Destiny CRB simply does not contain the word "Discipline" there on that page. Since there is no skill specified, it is not a change, but rather an omission.

It wasn't technically omitted, just moved to the description for Discipline in the Skills chapter rather than having it in the Force chapter.

Could you point me to it? I was looking earlier but couldn't find it there.

If a mystic used move to "hurl" an object at an enemy force user, it would be disipline verse disipline? (2 yellows vs 1 red 1 purple in this case).

I saw the examples for athletics to resist your weapon being moved out of your hand and resilience if someone's trying to bind you. Are these all the users disipline vs the defenders skill (athletics, resilience, vigilance) or its it always skill verse same skill?

Almost every force powere can be opposed if it's verse a force user, but other than move attacks and unleash is there any others that are normally opposed? Not counting things like enhance, which are just force added to checks.

Could you point me to it? I was looking earlier but couldn't find it there.

Page 120 F&D, second bullet.

If a mystic used move to "hurl" an object at an enemy force user, it would be disipline verse disipline? (2 yellows vs 1 red 1 purple in this case).

I saw the examples for athletics to resist your weapon being moved out of your hand and resilience if someone's trying to bind you. Are these all the users disipline vs the defenders skill (athletics, resilience, vigilance) or its it always skill verse same skill?

This is for an NPC who is story-important, like Nemeses or very powerful Rivals. Mooks (low level rivals and minions) shouldn't usually get to roll to resist Force powers, unless the Force power itself actually calls out that it's an opposed check (like Influence's Discipline vs. Discipline).

Could you point me to it? I was looking earlier but couldn't find it there.

Page 120 F&D, second bullet.

Thanks whafrog.

I kan read reel good.

If a mystic used move to "hurl" an object at an enemy force user, it would be disipline verse disipline? (2 yellows vs 1 red 1 purple in this case).

I saw the examples for athletics to resist your weapon being moved out of your hand and resilience if someone's trying to bind you. Are these all the users disipline vs the defenders skill (athletics, resilience, vigilance) or its it always skill verse same skill?

This is for an NPC who is story-important, like Nemeses or very powerful Rivals. Mooks (low level rivals and minions) shouldn't usually get to roll to resist Force powers, unless the Force power itself actually calls out that it's an opposed check (like Influence's Discipline vs. Discipline).

I understand opposed checks are for force sensitive enemies and when an enemy target PCs. Any comment on if it's always disipline checks for the "caster" or is it always the same skill vs same skill (athletics vs athlerics)?

The caster usually uses Discipline.

The caster usually uses Discipline.

Even when the defender would use something else?

Yes. Discipline is pretty much it, unless the Force power specifically calls out something else (like Medicine for that Harm control upgrade, or Vigilance for Seek)

And it's not always just Force sensitive enemies that get to resist. An elite soldier could possibly use Resilience as a way to mitigate the effects of Move or Unleash, or Athletics to overcome the effects of Bind or to avoid being telekinetically disarmed. Maybe a Cunning spy could be Perceptive enough to see through an illusion. Discipline is the go-to skill for resisting Force powers...unless it makes more sense to use something else.

This is a fairly fluid game, and there are lots of ways that you can accomplish the same thing through different means. I wouldn't be afraid to explore possibilities, but just make sure your choices are grounded in a good understanding of the "how & why" of the rules.

The caster usually uses Discipline.

Even when the defender would use something else?

Yes, and to expand on awayputurwpn's post, this is true of other skills as well. Stealth is opposed by Perception or Vigilance, the social skills have their own grid, etc. The "caster" uses Discipline because that's fundamentally tied to what it takes to reach and manipulate the Force. It would make no sense for the "caster" to use Athletics to throw an object, it has nothing to do with their physicality and their body never touches it.

Thanks for the help guys. The mechanics are coming together nicely for this game. Still need to figure out the correct opposed checks like the stealth vs perception. Everything else seems to fall into place with out a lot of trouble. Force powers has me scratching my head the most as most of the PCs haven't been using them as much, I'm not experienced. Ino the next session I'm going to try to have them fight "possessed" force users. Trying to show them how they can use them in combat. Didn't want to just to an inquisiter at them without some force user enemy first.

Thanks for the help guys. The mechanics are coming together nicely for this game. Still need to figure out the correct opposed checks like the stealth vs perception.

The key here, I think, is to not feel like you're stuck with one skill for the job. Use whichever skill makes the most sense for the situation. Are the characters you're sneaking up on expecting trouble (Perception)? Or are they fairly relaxed, just another day on the job sorta guys (Vigilance)? There could even be situations where you'd use an entirely different skill, like if they programmed a security scanner to look for you (Computers) or told a bunch of mooks how exactly to search for you (Leadership).

As a side note, I've been contemplating a house rule for the difficulty for Move attacks: the difficulty is the greater of Silhouette of the object or the difficulty for the range of the target, and is upgraded for the lesser of the two.

So a Silhouette 0 object being thrown at sport range would be 1 Difficulty Die, while throwing a Sil 3 starfighter at someone at extreme range would be 3 Challenge and 1 Difficulty Die.

I haven't had a chance to see if it's necessary yet - none of my players have shown interest in the Move power, but if they do and it turns out the straight Silhouette difficulty is a little too low, ill put this into effect.

As a side note, I've been contemplating a house rule for the difficulty for Move attacks: the difficulty is the greater of Silhouette of the object or the difficulty for the range of the target, and is upgraded for the lesser of the two.

So a Silhouette 0 object being thrown at sport range would be 1 Difficulty Die, while throwing a Sil 3 starfighter at someone at extreme range would be 3 Challenge and 1 Difficulty Die.

I haven't had a chance to see if it's necessary yet - none of my players have shown interest in the Move power, but if they do and it turns out the straight Silhouette difficulty is a little too low, ill put this into effect.

I suspect it won't be a huge issue, considering that Move is a ranged attack with no critical rating and no special properties (okay, it can manage a pseudo auto-fire, but only if you have the force points to spare on activating magnitude upgrades). Hurling around huge objects like airspeeders and starfighters is like firing a missile tube or tossing thermal detonators. Sure, you'll ruin somebody's day, but you're also going to draw quite a lot of attention.

As a side note, I've been contemplating a house rule for the difficulty for Move attacks: the difficulty is the greater of Silhouette of the object or the difficulty for the range of the target, and is upgraded for the lesser of the two.

So a Silhouette 0 object being thrown at sport range would be 1 Difficulty Die, while throwing a Sil 3 starfighter at someone at extreme range would be 3 Challenge and 1 Difficulty Die.

I haven't had a chance to see if it's necessary yet - none of my players have shown interest in the Move power, but if they do and it turns out the straight Silhouette difficulty is a little too low, ill put this into effect.

Unlike most ranged attacks, you have control over the object the entire way; changing it by range makes less (not none, but less) sense than for a blaster or firearm.

Thanks for the help guys. The mechanics are coming together nicely for this game. Still need to figure out the correct opposed checks like the stealth vs perception. Everything else seems to fall into place with out a lot of trouble. Force powers has me scratching my head the most as most of the PCs haven't been using them as much, I'm not experienced. Ino the next session I'm going to try to have them fight "possessed" force users. Trying to show them how they can use them in combat. Didn't want to just to an inquisiter at them without some force user enemy first.

Think of perception as actively looking. Where as Vigilance is noticing a change in whats around you. So if someone is not actively looking for someone they would use vigilance to notice the stealth. But is they are a security guard and are actively looking around for intruders. Perception.

So, to clarify, do you add uncancelled successes on the ranged attack to the damage, or is it simply equal to Silhouette x 10?

For example, if I were to roll 3 Force pips (1 base power, 1 range upgrades to move the object out of Short Range, and 1 to move a higher Silhouette object) and gain two successes on Discipline to throw an Acklay (Silhouette 2), would I deal 20 damage (2 x Silhouette) or 22 ((2 x Silhouette) + 2 successes)? Also, the fluff mentions that the damage is dealt to the "target and the object": does this mean that both of the aforementioned would suffer the full 20-22 points of damage, or would the damage split between? Also, you have roll to pick up the object, but does the target of the attack (the one having the Acklay thrown at it) get any chance to dodge?

My interpretation is that in your example you would deal 22 damage to both target and object (each still getting soak/armor). It functions like a normal ranged attack, so you set difficulty based on range, and if they have any ranged defense (or is it deflection now?) from equipment, talents, etc., then that applies.

So, to clarify, do you add uncancelled successes on the ranged attack to the damage, or is it simply equal to Silhouette x 10?

For example, if I were to roll 3 Force pips (1 base power, 1 range upgrades to move the object out of Short Range, and 1 to move a higher Silhouette object) and gain two successes on Discipline to throw an Acklay (Silhouette 2), would I deal 20 damage (2 x Silhouette) or 22 ((2 x Silhouette) + 2 successes)? Also, the fluff mentions that the damage is dealt to the "target and the object": does this mean that both of the aforementioned would suffer the full 20-22 points of damage, or would the damage split between? Also, you have roll to pick up the object, but does the target of the attack (the one having the Acklay thrown at it) get any chance to dodge?

If I were to swing a wrecking ball into a car at 20kph, is that any different than swinging a car into the wrecking ball at the same speed? So, I imagine the damage is done to both objects, then both objects have to apply soak and wounds for the 22 damage.

So, to clarify, do you add uncancelled successes on the ranged attack to the damage, or is it simply equal to Silhouette x 10?

For example, if I were to roll 3 Force pips (1 base power, 1 range upgrades to move the object out of Short Range, and 1 to move a higher Silhouette object) and gain two successes on Discipline to throw an Acklay (Silhouette 2), would I deal 20 damage (2 x Silhouette) or 22 ((2 x Silhouette) + 2 successes)? Also, the fluff mentions that the damage is dealt to the "target and the object": does this mean that both of the aforementioned would suffer the full 20-22 points of damage, or would the damage split between? Also, you have roll to pick up the object, but does the target of the attack (the one having the Acklay thrown at it) get any chance to dodge?

Since it's treated as a ranged attack with the only exceptions being the skill used (Discipline) and how the base difficulty is determined, I would say that successes get added to the damage value, so it'd be 22 damage in your example.

And yes, both target and object would suffer the damage. So unless the thrown object has a high wound threshold and/or an armor rating, it's probably going to get smushed as well as the target as they both take the damage rolled.

The target of the thrown object only gets to apply any ranged defense or defensive upgrades that they have to the difficulty. Since using Move to hurl objects already has a set difficulty, it can't be made into an opposed check as per the sidebar in the Force chapter of the FaD core rulebook. So if you target is behind cover (ranged defense 1) and has Adversary 1, then hurling a Silhouette 2 object would require a successful Discipline check vs. a difficulty of 1 challenge, 1 difficulty, and 1 setback.