In this thread, the discussion went onto R2-D2 - and in the interest of not derailing that thread...

Let's discuss R2-D2.

For Reference:

I've seen a lot of people undervaluing him, in my local meta and on forums. So let's discuss him.

I've personally found myself putting him into pretty much all of my rebel lists since his release. I think he is fantastic value. He gives you good card advantage, Terminal Network is great - giving you more cards and potentially wasting the moves of some of your opponent's figures.

He's often hard to kill and can occasionally hand out a key Stun, or the last piece of damage, from a range of 2-4. I've had games where he's dodged and 'luckied', drawn me a ton of cards, wasted 3-4 attack of the opponent and a move of theirs, as they went to grab a terminal that I got control of with Terminal Network.

Your opponent ignores him and you draw a ton of cards. They go after him and probably waste a few attacks trying to get him dead and for what? Only 3 measly points!

Not to mention the maps where controlling terminals matter or give out points.

I think he's excellent. For 1 point more than Rebel High Command, you're getting the ability to attack, to draw away fire, to cancel out terminal grabs, to draw cards during the round.

I love him

Hey I was the one who derailed that other thread! Yeah I think R2 is great but just barely misses the cut. Like I said in the other thread I'm thinking that if Bantha because a Merc staple that R2 will get a boost in utility with his ability to throw a stun in if needed. And if the Bantha uses his trample/stampede on R2 instead of other units then that's a good trade in my book.

I do think terminal network is slightly over costed because most of the time you will be using it just to draw 1 extra command card at the end of the round. In the cases where terminals are part of the mission it becomes extremely valuable and can swing a game though.

I think R2 is great but just barely misses the cut.

Why's that? I'm interested to know what people are running instead of him?

When brewing Rebel lists, I often begin with Gideon, C-3PO and R2, for 8pts (maybe 9pts with On a Mission). That gives you 3 great support characters, increases your activation count and allows you to do the 'half-pass'.

I'm not saying that he has to go into EVERY list, but I'm interested in what makes the cut ahead of him, for other players.

I used the twins last SC and got 2nd. I swapped Mak for Artoo and got first in the next SC. He is a brave little toaster. Opponents wasted attacks on him, and I was playing all my command cards. I'm a full believer in Artoo now, but I'm not sure if I would bother attacking him if I faced him.

I think the consensus from people that are much better than me at skirmish is the RHC and On a DM are slightly better than R2 for the points. RHC isn't a conditional on R2 reaching the terminal or him surviving afterwords. And On A Mission gives Gideon either a half move to get him caught back up to your other units or an extra point thrown in every round. That's my knowledge of it. I've probably missed a couple things though.

I love R2 in combination with Leia. You can go through your command deck easily and reuse key cards with Leia, R2, and High Command. Excellent combo.

Try turning the situation on its head: Is it worth downgrading eSabs to rSabs, or eTroopers to rTroopers so that you can fit R2 into your squad? Personally, I don't consider that a good move. If there's an extra 3 points in my squad then I'll take R2 every time (because Mak sucks in skirmish)...but I almost never have 3 extra points floating around in my Rebel squads.

At my last tournament, I went 3-0 with:

Luke

eSabs + Targeting Computer

eSabs + Targeting Computer

rSabs

Gideon + On a Mission

R2-D2

C-3PO.

R2-D2 was a beast. Every game, he just moved to the nearest terminal and drew me a ton of cards. In a game against a imp trooper list, he 'wasted' 4 attacks as he dodged his way through them.

While I don't think he should be in every list, I don't think it's the case that to include him, it's at the 'cost' of downgrading the rest of your list. I'd cut C-3PO ahead of R2 every time, in my experience.

I use RHC + On a Mission instead of R2 in Rebels lists.

I use him for Mercs, though.

The problem with R2 is that half the time he doesn't do anything. RHC will ALWAYS get you cards, especially on round 1 where R2 often won't.

Any discussion about cycling cards ignores the fact that games often only last 3-4 rounds in tournaments, and that is irrelevant.

If you actually bring up R2's ability to attack, you must be a god of dice rolling, because he does absolutely nothing 2/6 of the time, and pretty low odds for anything on 1 other side.

A lot of the time, people move R2 out to a terminal and the opponent shoots at him. Although you may think this is them wasting shots, a lot of the time they wouldn't have anything good to shoot at anyways.

He's certainly OK, but I'd rather just have RHC + diplo mission most of the time for guaranteed cards + points.

Having the 7th activation can be pretty nice on some maps, though. So it kind of depends.

If discussing multiplayer maps, r2 is an easy 15vp with terminal network...Auto include for those multiplayer maps imo. He's worth the pointshort in 1v1 too, you get more function rah Tehran than just drawing an extra card per turn with rhc

Just for fun, try having him focused and se how well he shots then.

Just for fun, try having him focused and se how well he shots then.

He rolls a GY when he's focused...that's one of the worst attack pools in the game--IMHO, the only worse pool that we have is BB. IMHO, if you're focusing R2, you're already in a really bad situation. Focus exists to make good attackers great, and not to make bad attackers mediocre.

Just for fun, try having him focused and se how well he shots then.

He rolls a GY when he's focused...that's one of the worst attack pools in the game--IMHO, the only worse pool that we have is BB. IMHO, if you're focusing R2, you're already in a really bad situation. Focus exists to make good attackers great, and not to make bad attackers mediocre.

but then when he kills an officer it is really really funny

At my LGS' winter tournament, I had Gideon focus my R2, just because I was running away with the game. Soon after, my opponent took a shot at R2 with Boba Fett, and R2 got a "Lucky" dodge. Then R2 turned around and with his focus was able to get 2 damage and a stun on Boba!

I consistently find a way to include R2-D2 in all of my rebel list

In my lists R2-D2 has a "single purpose"

He bravely b-lines towards the nearest terminal daring opponents to attack

Most often he survives every game (Thanks to the "Lucky" ability - a vastly underestimated ability IMO)

In my last game he even delivered the killing blow to an Elite HK Assassin droid (which is a rarity)

A typical strategy for R2-D2 may be:

Round One:

Position R2-D2 in such a way that he may be adjacent to a terminal at the end of round one (You may find Gideon's Tactical Maneuver a necessity to faciliate this strategy)

If the terminal is not contested you will receive an extra command card during the status phase

Round Two:

If he finds himself with his "Terminal Network" card in hand play it as an action
You may also evoke the "Scomp Link" action

By the end of round 2 you have the potential to have 8 command cards in hand

Round Three:

Continue to use the "Scomp Link" ability
R2-D2 is also adept at using the droid specific "Devotion" card to "fish" for deployment specific command cards

At the end of round three you have the potential to have a minimum of 10 of your command cards in your hand

_____________________

This is a general strategy for anyone interested in including R2-D2 in their list

That little droid has all sorts of utility and is very thematic in the game of Skirmish

(Well done devs!)

To quote the galaxies most infamous protocol droid:

"Excuse me sir, but that R2-D2 is in prime condition, a real bargain (for 3 points!)"

I hope this helps anyone looking to incorporate R2-D2 in their list some general ideas of how he may be utilized

The single best thing about R2 is that he is an activation. Depending on the map, he is probably going to draw you less cards than Rebel High Command, and give up 3 points to the opponent unless you're lucky. He tricks you into putting a mediocre command card in your deck. There are probably more valuable cards you could have used most of the time.

It might seem like you're getting them to waste attacks on R2, but in reality, a lot of the time they wouldn't have anyone to attack anyways unless you're really just throwing your guys out there.

RHC is also guaranteed to draw you an extra card at the end of round 1, whereas R2 is very unlikely to do so unless you waste valuable Gideon actions or movement command cards. Having that extra card for the pivotal round 2 can easily make or break a match.

A better analysis of R2 is:

Round 1 - he may help you have last activation of the round, and can contest a terminal but might die since you threw him out there.

Round 2 - If still alive, he draws you a card, probably after you've already used all your important units. If you play terminal network, you're basically discarding 1 card to draw 2 more and not having to worry about terminals on some maps for this round. Potentially you're denying a card if you weren't going to contest anyways. Not bad, but not fantastic.

Round 3 - if still alive, he draws a card, again after you've used all important units. Generally not useful for anything else.

Round 4 - if the game lasts this long, he is probably useless since you'll use all your important units first and not get a card until it doesn't matter

Game is probably over, unless you and your opponent play fast.

Overall, you should expect to draw 2-3 cards in time to use them for something good. The attacks you soak are probably a wash unless your opponent is pretty dumb, and if you're not lucky you give up 3 points.

Compared to RHC and diplomatic mission, you are guaranteed 3 cards you can use earlier than you could playing R2, and probably 3 points. However, you also give up the ability to go last on round 1, which is generally pretty important.

So in my opinion, playing R2 isn't unreasonable, but I like RHC and diplomatic mission better.

If discussing multiplayer maps, r2 is an easy 15vp with terminal network...Auto include for those multiplayer maps imo. He's worth the pointshort in 1v1 too, you get more function rah Tehran than just drawing an extra card per turn with rhc

We've been talking about this in our group. IMO he is stupidly OP'd with his Command card in the Free4All map, but in the other hand on of two things should happen if R2-D2 is in such a Free4All game:

1) Hopefully another player it players will activate their R2-D2's and thus negate the effect

or

2) If a single player manages to pull it off and score 15 points early on, then everyone else should surely turn their attention in unity in that player and seriously consider ending him/her

I have little experience with R2, but the game I used him in he was definitely helpful. However, I included Rebel High Command and Leia, so it was a very command card focused list. I was able to use MHD19's Miracle Worker card 3 times, stunned a heavy trooper with R2 and dodged twice, long enough for him to get over to MHD-19 and repair him. My opponent was rather inexperienced, but can't say he really made any major mistakes. Overall, I think R2 is a very good figure with a lot of options in certain lists. Would I take him with a Merc list? Probably not. Would I take him in a rebel list without Leia? Not sure about that.

Mercs do not have access to RHC or other means to get more command Cards other than R2-D2. And there are very good Hunter cards.

Mercs do not have access to RHC or other means to get more command Cards other than R2-D2. And there are very good Hunter cards.

My point was that I feel you have to have a purely command card oriented deck to really benefit from R2 fully. If your game lasts only 3 rounds (which most people claim as average) then he gets you 2-3 extra command cards. I feel like you can't count on that being a real game changer. With Leia and RHC, then R2 fills out the list to make command cards shine fully. In a merc list I feel Gideon and a stronger attacker would be more beneficial.

It seems to me that the best lists have a single unified focus rather than a mishmash of different strengths. R2's focus is command cards, and as such he fits better with other command card oriented deployments.

I like using R2 to get to a terminal and camp, he is great to leave at the terminal and use to play take initiative with so that you don't lose a more relevant activation

Gideon

R2-D2

DS

Hired Guns

4x Trandoshans

The Trandoshans want every extra command card, they can get.

Mercs do not have access to RHC or other means to get more command Cards other than R2-D2. And there are very good Hunter cards.

My point was that I feel you have to have a purely command card oriented deck to really benefit from R2 fully. If your game lasts only 3 rounds (which most people claim as average) then he gets you 2-3 extra command cards. I feel like you can't count on that being a real game changer. With Leia and RHC, then R2 fills out the list to make command cards shine fully. In a merc list I feel Gideon and a stronger attacker would be more beneficial.

It seems to me that the best lists have a single unified focus rather than a mishmash of different strengths. R2's focus is command cards, and as such he fits better with other command card oriented deployments.

Just want to address the bold part. Its been said numerous times around the forums and on podcasts but command cards wins games. If you were able to draw Son of Skywalker among those 2-3 extra it makes a huge difference in the game and can most definitely be a game changer. Same can be said for many of the command cards. Another scenario: Start the game with initiative. Get R2 to a terminal and draw a card. Then at end of turn draw 2 cards. If that second card is Take Initiative it will change the game big time for you. With out R2 you wouldn't have seen that card. I feel you are underestimating command cards in general if you think 2-3 extra isnt a game changer. I also disagree about the best list being focused on one thing. The best list is the list that can adapt whatever strategy they need to during the game to win. Im willing to bet most games are won by the person who drew more command cards. At least thats how its worked out for us so far.

Command Cards win games!