I think all ship, no squadron lists have become Uber-Super-Hella risky.

When we've played it in my group, it gets real ugly, real fast. And that's against all types. (CR-90 swarms, Double ISD, etc.)

You THINK you can just kill all the ships and get away before all of the squadrons get you. What happens is the opponent softens the hell out of an important ship and finishes it off. Then you are scrambling and your opponent moves to the next target.

It is irresponsible for the empire to not bring squadrons. The Emperor has them built cheaply and you can afford them. Let the rebel scum bring no squadrons. They're always scrambling for resources anyway.

I think you can do it, but you better have a hell of a plan.

If they only have three squadrons then i really wouldnt worry about them

Which three squadrons? If its three Bwings, Scruggs or firesprays, you basically just put a VSD in your front arc. Permanently.

So, in order:

1. Unless your ships are all speed 4, I think going no squadrons is a strictly worse strategy than going low squadrons (2-4 stands) because in the latter case, you can usually stall a bomber wing for a single turn that you need in order to enact a plan.
2. If you are going no squadrons, you need to both have activation advantage and be extremely fast. The problem you will have with the 1 ISD / 2 VSD fleet is the double whammy of being unmaneuverable and having no defense. If someone brings a rhymer ball, they can literally sit out of your range at speed zero and just eat your ships, and then you have to come to them (through the ball) to do anything about it? Why are you bringing a list that auto-loses against a frequent matchup?
3. Therefore, I think the only lists that can afford to even attempt no squadrons are CR90A spam (I have had this work, full transparency, but I typically fly everything at speed 3/4 for the entire game, and against bombers, speed 4, so you just blow past them, accept you will lose 1 CR90, and then for the rest of the game they have a hard time catching you because you also need to nuke the carrier on the initial pass).
4. A forgotten advantage of squadrons is stalling for deployment. You definitely don't want to be deploying that ISD early in a 3 ship list that needs to cover its flanks against a fast rebel player. Imagine seeing 2x MC-30 3xCR90 across the board and knowing that the MC30s don't need to deploy until they know where all your stuff is. That's going to end badly.

In conclusion, I expect your strategy will not work and will be unsatisfying. You either need at least a fighter screen, more and faster ships, or both.

With that said, I would suggest some simple modifications:

The VSD2 is not always good ship in the current meta because it has a hard time engaging consistently at range (slow and front arc only); consider the potential of converting them to lighter escorts with fighter-bombers (TIE Advanced, Rhymer, Firesprays, Aggressors) to expand your threat range on your flanks and fix the squadron problem simultaneously. Given that the ISD has the same profile (but faster), you put yourself in the position of getting outflanked or being stuck in a static position with your current list.

Another option is to down-gun some of the ships in order to open up points for a TIE screen. The VSD2, if you keep it, can spam squadron commands well, so even just 6 TIEs (48 points) is enough. I would recommend, as was previously stated, taking Rhymer with TIEs in this configuration because then if the other guy was foolish enough to go no squadrons, at least you can ping the snot out of him with blue dice all game. Individually they suck, but the combined weight of them along with their complete disdain for defense tokens makes them surprisingly obnoxious when there are a bucket of them firing at you (perhaps the perfect sign that FFG accurately represented the TIE!).

I am sure you better players can manage the Rymer ball and I would love to see a video on it, but going squadron-less in the wave II meta seems like a bridge too far.

I am playing a 500 point game as rebels and having a heck of a time against my wife's Rhymer ball currently. I keep upping the anti squdron dice extra but the speed 4 move makes that ball swing in range to fire all my ships on turn two with the ISD with EHB and a squdron command and token.

Rhymer

Vader

2x Advanced

Soontir

Dengar

Boba gett

She's got a decked out ISD with x17 ECM EHB GT LS, Demolisher with ET OE ACM, VSD I with tractor beams, APT OE APT. Tarkin and all 3 ships with defense liaisons give her maximum flexibility.

That darn Rhymer ball is such a threat. I loaded up on a fully decked Assualt Cruiser: Reeikan AP ECMs LS ECM EC ET X17 and Home one , AF Mark A with RS ECM TRC, and MC30 with OE APT TLR.

Tycho

Dutch

Dash

Wedge

Han

2x. X-wing

I am having issue with a Rhymer ball of a bigger size than you would likely meet but can't imagine dealing with it without squadrons. I really hate going against Ryhmer. I can handle every other darn card or ship from Ackbar congas, swarms, etc. anything but a darn good Rhymer ball.

I see what some are saying about going with an ISD and three Glads but just don't know the game well enough to beat a well place, moved, defend ball even when I load up on two dice anti squadron ships, add good squadrons even with RS. It is so difficult to get through the advanced when I have to worry about a screen that Degnar can make a hole in with heavy.

I am sure you better players can manage the Rymer ball and would love to see a video on it, but going squdron less in the wave II meta seems like a bribe too far.

Imperials have the easiest by far counter to a Rhymerball, Vader+Dengar+Mauler+Soontir+Howlrunner+IG88, a ship with Flight Contollers, Vader gets 4 blue dice, 1 black dice, counter 1 with a 75% chance of causing damage, plus every time someone shoots at Vader, they take 1 damage from Soontir, they all take 1 damage from Mauler when he first moves, Soontir has 6 blue dice, counter 4 and a reroll for both, Mauler+Dengar get 4 blue dice with a reroll, counter 2 for Mauler with a reroll, Howlrunner gets 4 dice and a reroll, with counter 1, IG-88 gets 5 blue dice, ignoring counter+escort.

That combo will chew through anything pretty **** quick, you just have to ensure you get the first round of attacks in with it for optimum results, not that hard to do.

Vader+Dengar+Mauler+Soontir+Howlrunner+IG88=111 points. That's a very big investment in anti-squadron. If I'm bringing just anti-squadron and no bombers, I prefer about half that investment. Otherwise I'm limiting what I can do with ships, which are what will win me the game. There are cheaper ways to mess with bomber wings.

Vader+Dengar+Mauler+Soontir+Howlrunner+IG88=111 points. That's a very big investment in anti-squadron. If I'm bringing just anti-squadron and no bombers, I prefer about half that investment. Otherwise I'm limiting what I can do with ships, which are what will win me the game. There are cheaper ways to mess with bomber wings.

4 x-wings or 6 tie fighters. Go coreset!

Vader+Dengar+Mauler+Soontir+Howlrunner+IG88=111 points. That's a very big investment in anti-squadron. If I'm bringing just anti-squadron and no bombers, I prefer about half that investment. Otherwise I'm limiting what I can do with ships, which are what will win me the game. There are cheaper ways to mess with bomber wings.

You can switch Howlrunner for Rhymer, giving you 4 black dice, 2 blue dice for ships, even without Rhymer it is still 3 black dice, which are 75% chance of damage, and 3 blue which are 50% chance, and you will wipe out a lot of points in squadrons, leaving your ships unmolested and free to annihilate the enemy ships.

He said he struggles with Rhymerballs, that suggestion I posted, is not pure anti squadron, and I do not like the idea of just giving my opponent 44 or 48 free points, which is exactly what 4 x-wings or 6 tie fighters are, I'd rather wipe out the enemy squadrons comprehensively, meaning you get the points, not the other guy, plus you can do plenty of harassment with 3 black dice and 3 blue dice, that is effectively 2-4 points of damage per round.

If your opponent has three or less squadrons, simply avoid them.

If your opponent has more you will struggle to avoid, so scatter with a big ship! And kill the carrier if singular carrier.

(Clarifying my previous point)

For 58 points rebs get 3 generic xwings and Jan, which works fine as harrasment, and can be used as relatively effective antiship.

Also I don't understand why people love the Vader TIE so much. That thing dies. Fast. I'd rather take one Adv for escort and spend the difference elsewhere, or if you wanted him for his tokens so escort hangs a bit longer spend three more points and get two advanced for better coverage, same longevity. Clear downsides of course being more activations required to command, dice are less effective (although you get more of them).

But Vader having escort blows, because ideally I could escort HIM. Just my opinion.

If your opponent has three or less squadrons, simply avoid them.

If your opponent has more you will struggle to avoid, so scatter with a big ship! And kill the carrier if singular carrier.

(Clarifying my previous point)

If you have no squadrons, which is the given I'm led to believe we are working with, this strategy really depends on whats on the board.

If you have a corvette swarm and I have 3 TIE's, this is probably fine. In fact, small fast ships against 3 non rogue antisquadron fighters will have no issue.

If you have a Victory Star Destroyer and I have three bwings, scruggs or firesprays, you will be getting hit by three bombers firing six dice, or three bombers have kept ar least 73 points of your fleet way the hell away from anything relevant. Same goes for MC80.

Imperial is probably taking at least two rounds of fire from uncommanded fighters. More if rogues. Same problem as vic if not able to go speed three for whatever reason.

Rogue fighters such as the aggressor and the yt-2400, both of which shoot a black anti ship die, are also going to be unavoidable to a squadronless fleet, and are capable of doing real, meaningful damage in relatively small numbers. Uncontested Firesprays are just straight up problematic.

Also, I dont see why scattering is helpful, unless by doing so you have forced me to place a fighter that I could previously command outside of range. Which, I can only imagine means you landed in a whole bunch of my fighters. Which, you know, bully for me I guess.

He said he struggles with Rhymerballs, that suggestion I posted, is not pure anti squadron, and I do not like the idea of just giving my opponent 44 or 48 free points, which is exactly what 4 x-wings or 6 tie fighters are, I'd rather wipe out the enemy squadrons comprehensively, meaning you get the points, not the other guy, plus you can do plenty of harassment with 3 black dice and 3 blue dice, that is effectively 2-4 points of damage per round.

I've never understood the "free points" argument. If I bring 6 squadrons of TIE Fighters and the other guy brought no fighters, I spent 48 points to do 3 damage to his ships per turn they get shots off (which can be somewhere between every turn and every other depending on numerous factors) and just keep getting in the way. Over time, those hits add up.

If your opponent has three or less squadrons, simply avoid them.

If your opponent has more you will struggle to avoid, so scatter with a big ship! And kill the carrier if singular carrier.

(Clarifying my previous point)

Avoiding 3 Firesprays or Scurrgs or the like is often not possible in the long-term, and it's a not-uncommon inclusion.

Landing on a bunch of squadrons with a big ship is often a bad idea. Most of them will remain in your front arc and those on the side can be commanded to continue to harassment or if they're rogues they don't even need that.

If I'm running a carrier (with Boosted Comms) and I know you're relying on trying to knock out my ships, I won't serve you up the carrier. I'll make you work for it. The fundamental problem is that ships that are good at chasing down carriers (lighter ships) are also easier to kill with bombers. Ships that can handle a turn or two of bombing (heavier ships) are generally not very good at chasing down carriers. It's tricky to get working well.

That's not to say bombers are just an instant-win, but running up against them without any squadrons of your own is an uphill battle you forced on yourself.

For 58 points rebs get 3 generic xwings and Jan, which works fine as harrasment, and can be used as relatively effective antiship.

Also I don't understand why people love the Vader TIE so much. That thing dies. Fast. I'd rather take one Adv for escort and spend the difference elsewhere, or if you wanted him for his tokens so escort hangs a bit longer spend three more points and get two advanced for better coverage, same longevity. Clear downsides of course being more activations required to command, dice are less effective (although you get more of them).

But Vader having escort blows, because ideally I could escort HIM. Just my opinion.

I agree that 3 X-Wings + Jan is a fine inclusion and is pretty flexible. It definitely tanks far above its weight class and can absorb a good amount of punishment, which puts Rhymerballs and the like in the weird conundrum of whether its worth going after them or if they're just going to accept being plinked to death slowly but surely over the course of the game. Worst case the Jan blob just chases after ships all game.

I'm also not a true believer in the Darth Vader Advanced ace. He can definitely tank about 50% better than a generic Advanced and he throws out substantially more damage (3.25 average compared to 1.5 average) than the generic, but he does love to die fairly unceremoniously. He seems most popular for smaller squadron count lists where the hope is that a single high quality meat shield that can also fight is more valuable than several more mediocre meat shields.

I thinl. They are still viable. In the end it will likely come down to play style and skill though.

So yeah, I tried it tonight and my opponent brought a 4 B-Wing list with Jan, 2 X-Wings, Independence, Yavaris and an MC30. I was under his points so I took the initiative, Objective was Contested Outpost,

It was surprisingly close until I failed to kill his MC80 by 1 HULL POINT ! Then he repaired for Turn 6 and I had no more chance of killing him.

I lost 8-2 (so close to a 6-4 though with that stupid MC80 ! ). One VSD lived to tell the story of the battle.

To be fair, a close victory wasn't out my grasp, but I'll definitely need to find ways to trim the fat on some ships and include some form of squadron defense ! And I'm not talking about a token force, but to have at least one carrier ship specialized for anti-fighters just in case. 4 basic TIEs might not be enough, but some kind of TIEs + Howlrunner combo to activate them at least once, do some damage, then bail out is probably going to be all I need.

He said he struggles with Rhymerballs, that suggestion I posted, is not pure anti squadron, and I do not like the idea of just giving my opponent 44 or 48 free points, which is exactly what 4 x-wings or 6 tie fighters are, I'd rather wipe out the enemy squadrons comprehensively, meaning you get the points, not the other guy, plus you can do plenty of harassment with 3 black dice and 3 blue dice, that is effectively 2-4 points of damage per round.

I've never understood the "free points" argument. If I bring 6 squadrons of TIE Fighters and the other guy brought no fighters, I spent 48 points to do 3 damage to his ships per turn they get shots off (which can be somewhere between every turn and every other depending on numerous factors) and just keep getting in the way. Over time, those hits add up.

Except we are not talking about someone bringing no fighters are we, and taking plain vanilla tie fighters is giving points away when you know you will be facing squadrons, 6 of them will die inside 2 rounds easy, faster if they are near an enemy ship, while achieving very little.

I have seen countless players in Tournaments bring 4-6 tie fighters, they always die, doing nothing other than giving free VPS away. The amount of ships with 2 AS battery these days means taking any 3 hull fighter is a real poor gamble.

So yeah, I tried it tonight and my opponent brought a 4 B-Wing list with Jan, 2 X-Wings, Independence, Yavaris and an MC30. I was under his points so I took the initiative, Objective was Contested Outpost,

It was surprisingly close until I failed to kill his MC80 by 1 HULL POINT ! Then he repaired for Turn 6 and I had no more chance of killing him.

I lost 8-2 (so close to a 6-4 though with that stupid MC80 ! ). One VSD lived to tell the story of the battle.

To be fair, a close victory wasn't out my grasp, but I'll definitely need to find ways to trim the fat on some ships and include some form of squadron defense ! And I'm not talking about a token force, but to have at least one carrier ship specialized for anti-fighters just in case. 4 basic TIEs might not be enough, but some kind of TIEs + Howlrunner combo to activate them at least once, do some damage, then bail out is probably going to be all I need.

A less invasive modification for the Imperials is also Firesprays or Aggressors, as then you don't have to free up squadron commands.

If you do free up Squadron commands, I highly recommend some tinkering with combos. I will say that if your goal is a fighter screen + anti-squadron + annoyance, you want at least one fast ace with a scatter token, which is part of what makes Tycho such a real pain on the rebel side, as that's not something you can easily deal with or shrug off. It takes a concerted effort to kill Mithel or Soontir Fel (especially with an advanced escort so you have to plink them first).

My go to with Imperials is Rhymer + 2 Advanced + Fel; if the other guy took no squadrons, Rhymer is allowing you to fire 1 bomber black, 2 normal black, and 1 blue at medium range. If the other guy did take squadrons and it's mostly bombers, that should murder them. If the other guy took anti-squadron, he still has to deal with that and getting through the advanced while Fel harasses them is usually enough that a good blast from an OE Raider I will finish things off, barring getting jumped by like 120 points of rebel aces (in which case you should be murdering the carrier).

What are other people using on the Imperial side? I feel like the obvious go-tos for rebels are A-wing spam, YT-2400 spam, and Jan + X-Wings, but I have seen a lot more dispersion of cheap fighter screens for Imperials.

He said he struggles with Rhymerballs, that suggestion I posted, is not pure anti squadron, and I do not like the idea of just giving my opponent 44 or 48 free points, which is exactly what 4 x-wings or 6 tie fighters are, I'd rather wipe out the enemy squadrons comprehensively, meaning you get the points, not the other guy, plus you can do plenty of harassment with 3 black dice and 3 blue dice, that is effectively 2-4 points of damage per round.

I've never understood the "free points" argument. If I bring 6 squadrons of TIE Fighters and the other guy brought no fighters, I spent 48 points to do 3 damage to his ships per turn they get shots off (which can be somewhere between every turn and every other depending on numerous factors) and just keep getting in the way. Over time, those hits add up.

Except we are not talking about someone bringing no fighters are we, and taking plain vanilla tie fighters is giving points away when you know you will be facing squadrons, 6 of them will die inside 2 rounds easy, faster if they are near an enemy ship, while achieving very little.

I have seen countless players in Tournaments bring 4-6 tie fighters, they always die, doing nothing other than giving free VPS away. The amount of ships with 2 AS battery these days means taking any 3 hull fighter is a real poor gamble.

My bad, I misread it the other way around.

If you're facing other squadrons you need to keep the number of points in mind. Your 48 points in TIEs is not going to seriously challenge 100+ points in squadrons, particularly against squadrons with some fighter cover and not just a pure bomber blob.

I will say that I see a lot of people use their TIEs really recklessly and throw them ahead into flak fire prematurely. In those circumstances, TIEs are pretty miserable. You need to wait to use them when it's not an easy choice to flak them for the opposing player. You also need to actually use Squadron commands to get them up there en masse and in force to get in some early hits on escorts and/or crucial linchpins.

I've had reasonable success with 8 TIEs as my generic fighter inclusion. They get work done and you can hussle them all up there with coordinated Squadrons commands. Against serious bomber blobs (100+ points) they often do a fine job of picking apart most of the worst of it and then flak from my star destroyers is often sufficient to handle most of the rest. The remaining bombers (if any) are annoying but not "ruin your ships" bad, like they used to be.

I rarely feel like the 8 TIEs are points poorly spent. With less numbers of them, sometimes. You need quantity of them above all, like a true Imperial commander!

Going All-Ship is a min-max strategy (you are minimizing squadrons to maximize ships) and thats fine, thing is Min-Max strategies have 2 massive caveats:

1- You can't half-ass the "max" bit

2- There is always a reliable counter to any min-max list (whatever most exploits the "min" bit, usually)

In that light, your list leaves a bit to be desired. If you want to "max" an imperial list I would say bring 3 virtually naked ISDs (either all 3 ISDIIs or make 1 an ISD1 to give room for upgrades).

You can put either Vader or Tarkin on that fleet to help with firepower or flexibility as you like and then you have to play it in such a way that maximizes your advantage.

-You can't aford to lose an ISD unless it gets its value in points back and then some

-You need to control the engagement so that your ISDs aren't isolated or swarmed individually

-You have to get kills then get safe. Usually a list like this benefits from delaying initial engagement and cagey manouvering, a round or 2 to burn down an enemy ship and spamming engineering commands at the end while running (tarkin tokens helps here). Keeping in mind that it can be difficult to kill an ISD and there (usually) aren't points for your opponent to take unless they burn one down, partial kills do nothing.

I fought a 3 ISD list at a tourney recently and I won by simply delaying contact until round 5 when 1 ISD broke ranks. Burned it down and it was a 7-3, if he had swung that hammer and made me pay with a ship or 2 it would have been a different ball game. This opponent brought 4 ties with his ISDs and while they were slightly annoying they just ended up being 32 free points and something for my rhymerball to chew on while I waited for an ISD to kill. All in all 32 points would have been better spent on an admiral other than Motti or upgrades for the ISDs.

If you aren't going to truly max out on ships, don't do it at all. Expensive upgrades with questionable provenance are usually not as good as bigger/badder/more ships if you are going the all-ship route.

One has to consider that 51 points is all it takes to lose that 10-0. If you have no way to make points back (read: the risky ones) you will just haemorrhage points.

So yeah, I tried it tonight and my opponent brought a 4 B-Wing list with Jan, 2 X-Wings, Independence, Yavaris and an MC30. I was under his points so I took the initiative, Objective was Contested Outpost,

It was surprisingly close until I failed to kill his MC80 by 1 HULL POINT ! Then he repaired for Turn 6 and I had no more chance of killing him.

I lost 8-2 (so close to a 6-4 though with that stupid MC80 ! ). One VSD lived to tell the story of the battle.

To be fair, a close victory wasn't out my grasp, but I'll definitely need to find ways to trim the fat on some ships and include some form of squadron defense ! And I'm not talking about a token force, but to have at least one carrier ship specialized for anti-fighters just in case. 4 basic TIEs might not be enough, but some kind of TIEs + Howlrunner combo to activate them at least once, do some damage, then bail out is probably going to be all I need.

A less invasive modification for the Imperials is also Firesprays or Aggressors, as then you don't have to free up squadron commands.

If you do free up Squadron commands, I highly recommend some tinkering with combos. I will say that if your goal is a fighter screen + anti-squadron + annoyance, you want at least one fast ace with a scatter token, which is part of what makes Tycho such a real pain on the rebel side, as that's not something you can easily deal with or shrug off. It takes a concerted effort to kill Mithel or Soontir Fel (especially with an advanced escort so you have to plink them first).

My go to with Imperials is Rhymer + 2 Advanced + Fel; if the other guy took no squadrons, Rhymer is allowing you to fire 1 bomber black, 2 normal black, and 1 blue at medium range. If the other guy did take squadrons and it's mostly bombers, that should murder them. If the other guy took anti-squadron, he still has to deal with that and getting through the advanced while Fel harasses them is usually enough that a good blast from an OE Raider I will finish things off, barring getting jumped by like 120 points of rebel aces (in which case you should be murdering the carrier).

What are other people using on the Imperial side? I feel like the obvious go-tos for rebels are A-wing spam, YT-2400 spam, and Jan + X-Wings, but I have seen a lot more dispersion of cheap fighter screens for Imperials.

My buddy has been loving his Y-wing spam list.

Wedge, Dutch, Luke, Jan and everything else Y's. An MC80 carrier and Yavaris and recently CR90 with leia and Jainas light (which he uses to throw squadron commands to the MC80, leia doing work as a cut-price wing commander). Frankly, the only way to deal with this blob is to not deal with it. The sheer volume of hitpoints on the Y-wings is made worse by wedge and luke both being escorts AND bombers and he uses Reikaan which is infuriating when he manages to make zombie luke or zombie wedge do work. He also is getting annoyingly good at sending dutch in to toggle tie advanced to "activated" and then throwing 6 wedge dice at it and then swarming your fighters with as many Y-wings as it takes. Usually it's not worth tangling with, I even played a game against this where I threw 2 raiders at that thing and they barely dented it and one didn't make it out alive.

Yeah, the idea with the fighter screen of TIEs is to make sure that they are damaging enough so that they can kill one squadron per turn with all the damage they can throw. It might not seem much, but being able to gib a fighter a turn means that by delaying engagement until the nasty bombers are thinned down, the opponent will dedicate stuff and firepower to fight them off and that's firepower that's not dedicated to fight against ships.

Man, the Imperials are so different from the Rebels, it's really crazy I'll make them work though, I'll make them work !

Yeah, the idea with the fighter screen of TIEs is to make sure that they are damaging enough so that they can kill one squadron per turn with all the damage they can throw. It might not seem much, but being able to gib a fighter a turn means that by delaying engagement until the nasty bombers are thinned down, the opponent will dedicate stuff and firepower to fight them off and that's firepower that's not dedicated to fight against ships.

Man, the Imperials are so different from the Rebels, it's really crazy I'll make them work though, I'll make them work !

Yeah, the idea with the fighter screen of TIEs is to make sure that they are damaging enough so that they can kill one squadron per turn with all the damage they can throw. It might not seem much, but being able to gib a fighter a turn means that by delaying engagement until the nasty bombers are thinned down, the opponent will dedicate stuff and firepower to fight them off and that's firepower that's not dedicated to fight against ships.

Man, the Imperials are so different from the Rebels, it's really crazy I'll make them work though, I'll make them work !

I would rather just go with my Dengar, 2 TIE Advanced and Mithel.

Synergy is always better than linear increase.

I don't have a lot of respect for Tie fighters unless they are coming at me 6 stands at a time or have something else synergizing them. In my experience with an ISD with gunnery teams I will often take my second arc against tie fighters if 3 or more are in arc, reasoning is that they have 3 unmitigatable damage before they pop off in delicious 8 point increments that you bank right away. sometimes a few stands of ties can literally be the difference between point brackets. I also keep my Rhymer charged ball close to my ships. You have to send your ties in to my playground to get into range 1 but i can sit back and medium range your ships.

When facing A-wings they melt. I wouldn't take a few stands of ties into a fight with any expectation of causing any significant damage. You would need 8-10 stands which is already 72-80 points at which point you might as well have variety and synergies.

Hell, Soontir, Dengar a tie advanced and howlrunner synergize very well for the cost of 8 ties with the massive added survivability of scatter tokens, brace tokens and a ton of counter and re-rolls...

Also I don't understand why people love the Vader

- Vader is huge with flight controllers, consistently one shot-ing Tie generics stretching out to Xwings.

But Vader costs 21 and is a laser magnet, how to get around this? Send him in last.

Bombers have tons of HP they can look after themselves. When your bombers are dropping in Hull send in Vader. He should aim to kill a high value target or anti squadron-squadron to weaken their ability to return fire.

Vader should not be thrown away as an escort bait. A generic can be. I aim to persevere Vader every game by I)not leading with it II) Destroying single squadrons on the outside of a ball so he is not pinned III) only escorting 1-2 Hull squadrons and generally the expensive ones

You can lead with Vader if you combo though, Punishing One, Sontir Fel ball etc