I played my 3x Omega Squadron, 3x Black Squadron, 6x Crackshot list against a 3x AC Tempest and ATC Vader list once. What happened was I simply deleted 2 of my opponent's Tempests before they could even fire. My opponent jousted all 6 of them and I closed to range 1.

Holey moley why would you joust vs. a 6 ship crack swarm, of course they got roasted, goodness.

I played my 3x Omega Squadron, 3x Black Squadron, 6x Crackshot list against a 3x AC Tempest and ATC Vader list once. What happened was I simply deleted 2 of my opponent's Tempests before they could even fire. My opponent jousted all 6 of them and I closed to range 1.

Holey moley why would you joust vs. a 6 ship crack swarm, of course they got roasted, goodness.

There is going to much 'Deletewing' in wave 8, haha. I'm not going to use that as a derogatory term for wave 8's meta because I'll be bathing in the tears of its Acewing victims, but it's going to change things in an abrupt, sudden, TLT manner. Acewing players may be a little salty when their precious Lego Duplo Soontir + Vader or Whisper or Palp Shuttle build or its Rebel Poe + Miranda or Corran equivalent autodies to 4 simultaneous 4/4 hit Homing Missiles and they can no longer just shrug off damage as if they were bit on the ankle by a Chihuahua. You can't field goal kick a pit bull lol.

I recently did the math on the following fleet:

Lt. Blount

+ VI

+ XX Thread Tracers

5x Bandits

+ Concussions

+ Guidance Chips

​19.7​ expected damage vs a single target!!!!

In other words, massive overkill against anything but the tankiest Decimator.

See ya in hell, Fat Chewie.

I'm not convinced that Z's will survive as the missile carrier of choice if ordinance becomes a big thing in the meta.

VI Jonus and three Gammas with LRS and assault missiles would counter the Blount list I think. Really just want an excuse to use assault missiles, but they will force people to spread out swarms a little I think.

LRS might end up winning the range 3 torpedo/missile battle, you get the jump on all the ships that don't have target locks if you have higher PS. If you use Jonus you aren't as dependent on chips anyways. Would be nice to see assault missiles actually get used as well.

Did chimps just explode the meta AGAIN? Mid PS ships viable? Is this the same game that just LAST YEAR was Phantom VS fat Han?

I'm going crazy. Next stop twilight zone, and no I don't mean ponies, BKL.

I'm not convinced that Z's will survive as the missile carrier of choice if ordinance becomes a big thing in the meta.

VI Jonus and three Gammas with LRS and assault missiles would counter the Blount list I think. Really just want an excuse to use assault missiles, but they will force people to spread out swarms a little I think.

LRS might end up winning the range 3 torpedo/missile battle, you get the jump on all the ships that don't have target locks if you have higher PS. If you use Jonus you aren't as dependent on chips anyways. Would be nice to see assault missiles actually get used as well.

Zs can be backed up by Blount, the only reliable Tracer carrier, which makes their initial attack huge - dual mods with Chips.

Chip i think will have less impact that most believe. Its one dice on ordinance, that spend. Take Predator for example or TL and u get about same effect.

Chip i think will have less impact that most believe. Its one dice on ordinance, that spend. Take Predator for example or TL and u get about same effect.

It is zero points compared to 3 and has a 100% chance to work, unlike Predators 50%. TLs can be stacked with it. I haven't tested it, yet, but to me that sounds pretty amazing.

Chip i think will have less impact that most believe. Its one dice on ordinance, that spend. Take Predator for example or TL and u get about same effect.

Go ask all the Palpatine players about how significant changing one die is.

Chip i think will have less impact that most believe. Its one dice on ordinance, that spend. Take Predator for example or TL and u get about same effect.

Go ask all the Palpatine players about how significant changing one die is.

With palp you get to change all game, with chip you get to do it once most likely as you spend your ordinance, maybe twice max. A bit different. Also Palp let's change defence dice too.

Chip i think will have less impact that most believe. Its one dice on ordinance, that spend. Take Predator for example or TL and u get about same effect.

It is zero points compared to 3 and has a 100% chance to work, unlike Predators 50%. TLs can be stacked with it. I haven't tested it, yet, but to me that sounds pretty amazing.

But you pay for ordinance, so it's not like it costs nothing. You pay ordinance cost and then use it and you done. Your pt's used.

Chip i think will have less impact that most believe. Its one dice on ordinance, that spend. Take Predator for example or TL and u get about same effect.

It is zero points compared to 3 and has a 100% chance to work, unlike Predators 50%. TLs can be stacked with it. I haven't tested it, yet, but to me that sounds pretty amazing.

But you pay for ordinance, so it's not like it costs nothing. You pay ordinance cost and then use it and you done. Your pt's used.

On most 2 attack dice ships I am fine with that. The strength here is that you use ~13 points (Homing Missiles with EM) to delete 35 points of Soontir, or 22 points of a B-Wing before it gets to shoot.

I recently did the math on the following fleet:

Lt. Blount

+ VI

+ XX Thread Tracers

5x Bandits

+ Concussions

+ Guidance Chips

​19.7​ expected damage vs a single target!!!!

In other words, massive overkill against anything but the tankiest Decimator.

Why not switch vi for deadeye for better flexibility?

I recently did the math on the following fleet:

Lt. Blount

+ VI

+ XX Thread Tracers

5x Bandits

+ Concussions

+ Guidance Chips

​19.7​ expected damage vs a single target!!!!

In other words, massive overkill against anything but the tankiest Decimator.

Why not switch vi for deadeye for better flexibility?

Tracers already only need a Focus; Deadeye is unnecessary.

I recently did the math on the following fleet:

Lt. Blount

+ VI

+ XX Thread Tracers

5x Bandits

+ Concussions

+ Guidance Chips

​19.7​ expected damage vs a single target!!!!

In other words, massive overkill against anything but the tankiest Decimator.

Good luck getting all 6 arcs on one ship at the same time, especially at range 2 or less, I guess. I mean yeah, it's a potent alpha, but I'd expect at least one or two of them to be arcdoged and at least one of the ones that weren't to be dead before they shoot. In theory it's awesome, plough the road etc. In practice I'd expect it to get annihilated because in the end, it's z95s. Hell, with the right PS9+ pilots, I'd just go ahead and blow Blount out of the sky.

Why not switch vi for deadeye for better flexibility?

VI remains useful after you've shot, deadeye is instantly dead weight (for missiles that require locks anyway which as noted, thread tracers don't). PS9 Blount should be able to get arc and a lock on a single target and throw an autohit missile without needing Deadeye. If he's not dead.

My preference for Blount is probably Ion Pulse Missiles and VI. Pick a target, especially one without repositioning options, and know exactly where it will be next round, for certain...

I recently did the math on the following fleet:

Lt. Blount

+ VI

+ XX Thread Tracers

5x Bandits

+ Concussions

+ Guidance Chips

​19.7​ expected damage vs a single target!!!!

In other words, massive overkill against anything but the tankiest Decimator.

Good luck getting all 6 arcs on one ship at the same time, especially at range 2 or less, I guess. I mean yeah, it's a potent alpha, but I'd expect at least one or two of them to be arcdoged and at least one of the ones that weren't to be dead before they shoot. In theory it's awesome, plough the road etc. In practice I'd expect it to get annihilated because in the end, it's z95s. Hell, with the right PS9+ pilots, I'd just go ahead and blow Blount out of the sky.

Even if one or two get arc dodged, that's still 3 Concussion Missiles handing out an all-but-guaranteed 4 hits each (the Missile's average roll with a Focus and Guidance Chips behind it is a lazy 3.94). I hope you've got a lot of health or defensive tokens, cause your gonna need them all.

With regards to the PS9 pilots just killing Blount... yeah, you could. But you better hope you actually do, because if you don't... well, refer above as to how much pain you'd be in for.

I recently did the math on the following fleet:

Lt. Blount

+ VI

+ XX Thread Tracers

5x Bandits

+ Concussions

+ Guidance Chips

​19.7​ expected damage vs a single target!!!!

In other words, massive overkill against anything but the tankiest Decimator.

Good luck getting all 6 arcs on one ship at the same time, especially at range 2 or less, I guess. I mean yeah, it's a potent alpha, but I'd expect at least one or two of them to be arcdoged and at least one of the ones that weren't to be dead before they shoot. In theory it's awesome, plough the road etc. In practice I'd expect it to get annihilated because in the end, it's z95s. Hell, with the right PS9+ pilots, I'd just go ahead and blow Blount out of the sky.

Even if one or two get arc dodged, that's still 3 Concussion Missiles handing out an all-but-guaranteed 4 hits each (the Missile's average roll with a Focus and Guidance Chips behind it is a lazy 3.94). I hope you've got a lot of health or defensive tokens, cause your gonna need them all.

With regards to the PS9 pilots just killing Blount... yeah, you could. But you better hope you actually do, because if you don't... well, refer above as to how much pain you'd be in for.

It's not a bad list. It's just not an all-consuming annihilation. It's probably going to be competitive like any number of other lists.

Also, one or two get arc dodged, one or two get killed if Blount doesn't; I'd choose my targets based on how much fire I was putting into him versus threatening missile dudes. I wouldn't expect to have more than maybe one or two with a shot on the same target in the first enagagement if I'm playing my usual trip aces like not-a-dumbass. Though, to be fair, I have successfully dumbassed it up every time I've played that list against swarms because apparently they make my tactical brain just leak out of my ears.

I'd be interested to see how it fared in practice. I won't be trying it myself though, because I only have two Scum zs...

I recently did the math on the following fleet:

Lt. Blount

+ VI

+ XX Thread Tracers

5x Bandits

+ Concussions

+ Guidance Chips

​19.7​ expected damage vs a single target!!!!

In other words, massive overkill against anything but the tankiest Decimator.

Why not switch vi for deadeye for better flexibility?

Tracers already only need a Focus; Deadeye is unnecessary.

My bad, didn't read rhe card properly.

It's not a bad list. It's just not an all-consuming annihilation. It's probably going to be competitive like any number of other lists.

It's not a bad list. It's just not an all-consuming annihilation. It's probably going to be competitive like any number of other lists.

And that's what excites me about Chimps and LRS. I think they're good enough to make ordnance lists A Thing, but their requirements / opportunity cost is big enough that you kind of have to have a dedicated ordnance carrier to run them, which is a balancing factor in and of itself. If I end the alpha strike phase with two of my three aces left against, say, 5 Z-95s two of which have missiles unfired... that's a game, you know?

Yup. Ordnance is (back) in contention, which I'm looking forward to.

I think my favourite ordnance package is going to be N'Dru with Lone Wolf, Cluster Missiles, Glitterstim and Guidance Chips. 25 points of 'stay out of range of me or I will throw 8 heavily modified dice at your face'. It packs a LOT of punch for 25 points and with Lone Wolf and N'Dru's ability is a surprisingly potent closer if it's the last ship left. I very nearly took down a half-health brobot with it last week.

I recently did the math on the following fleet:

Lt. Blount

+ VI

+ XX Thread Tracers

5x Bandits

+ Concussions

+ Guidance Chips

​19.7​ expected damage vs a single target!!!!

In other words, massive overkill against anything but the tankiest Decimator.

See ya in hell, Fat Chewie.

Granted, I parked Lando's ass in front of them, but still. Even an experienced Falcon player would have trouble dodging all of those arcs round after round.

Fat Ghosts DoA? Hopefully. Death to pancakes.

There is something to having access to such burst damage at high PS though. I play a VI Boba and VI Engines Prockets Vader squad right now, and Boba has Homing Missiles. Vader with a TL and Focus can swoop in on something about to wreck Boba and just delete it, and Boba can put the hurt on something too with his EM Homing Missiles. One might consider putting a Torp and chips on a regen Poe.

To any naysayers, a Bandit Squadron with Homing Missiles and chips gets to, for one round, fire a hyper HLC off for a mere 5 points provided it has the TL. After that, you still have a Z-95 you can use. For 17 points, that's 6 points less than a Heavy Scyk with HLC, and 8 points less than a Sigma Squadron Phantom, and your 4 dice offense is far superior.

All of you Omega Leader haters? Homing Missiles ignore the Comm Relay evade he sits on.

I recently did the math on the following fleet:

Lt. Blount

+ VI

+ XX Thread Tracers

5x Bandits

+ Concussions

+ Guidance Chips

​19.7​ expected damage vs a single target!!!!

In other words, massive overkill against anything but the tankiest Decimator.

See ya in hell, Fat Chewie.

I played a game where my friend proxied chimps across 4 Z's and had a 'fat' Ndru Suhlak with Engines, and all the Z's had Glitterstim. I lost my entire C-3PO Falcon to 3 Z's I think, lol. Not sure on the exact mix of missiles, I think it was one set of clusters, 2 sets of concussions, and he had an ion pulse Z to spare. Ndru didn't shoot.

Granted, I parked Lando's ass in front of them, but still. Even an experienced Falcon player would have trouble dodging all of those arcs round after round.

Fat Ghosts DoA? Hopefully. Death to pancakes.

There is something to having access to such burst damage at high PS though. I play a VI Boba and VI Engines Prockets Vader squad right now, and Boba has Homing Missiles. Vader with a TL and Focus can swoop in on something about to wreck Boba and just delete it, and Boba can put the hurt on something too with his EM Homing Missiles. One might consider putting a Torp and chips on a regen Poe.

Well... you shouldn't have to dodge them all round after round. Between the Falcon and whatever support ships you've got – whether it's another large ship or a couple of aces, or 3 or 4 basic ships – you should be whittling those Headhunters down reasonably quickly. And if they are focusing on the Falcon, that gives you the chance to outmanoeuvre them with the rest of your squadron.

I'm glad ordnance is getting some new life breathed into it, and I'm looking forward to seeing more viable options on tables, but I don't think it's going to become all-powerful. It's certainly not going to make ordnance carriers any less vulnerable to a well-placed volley. And squadrons that rely on all ordnance become one-trick ponies, which is always risky. We might not be able to see what the hard counter to that is yet, but there'll be one.

I recently did the math on the following fleet:

Lt. Blount

+ VI

+ XX Thread Tracers

5x Bandits

+ Concussions

+ Guidance Chips

​19.7​ expected damage vs a single target!!!!

In other words, massive overkill against anything but the tankiest Decimator.

See ya in hell, Fat Chewie.

I played a game where my friend proxied chimps across 4 Z's and had a 'fat' Ndru Suhlak with Engines, and all the Z's had Glitterstim. I lost my entire C-3PO Falcon to 3 Z's I think, lol. Not sure on the exact mix of missiles, I think it was one set of clusters, 2 sets of concussions, and he had an ion pulse Z to spare. Ndru didn't shoot.

Granted, I parked Lando's ass in front of them, but still. Even an experienced Falcon player would have trouble dodging all of those arcs round after round.

Fat Ghosts DoA? Hopefully. Death to pancakes.

There is something to having access to such burst damage at high PS though. I play a VI Boba and VI Engines Prockets Vader squad right now, and Boba has Homing Missiles. Vader with a TL and Focus can swoop in on something about to wreck Boba and just delete it, and Boba can put the hurt on something too with his EM Homing Missiles. One might consider putting a Torp and chips on a regen Poe.

Well... you shouldn't have to dodge them all round after round. Between the Falcon and whatever support ships you've got – whether it's another large ship or a couple of aces, or 3 or 4 basic ships – you should be whittling those Headhunters down reasonably quickly. And if they are focusing on the Falcon, that gives you the chance to outmanoeuvre them with the rest of your squadron.

I'm glad ordnance is getting some new life breathed into it, and I'm looking forward to seeing more viable options on tables, but I don't think it's going to become all-powerful. It's certainly not going to make ordnance carriers any less vulnerable to a well-placed volley. And squadrons that rely on all ordnance become one-trick ponies, which is always risky. We might not be able to see what the hard counter to that is yet, but there'll be one.

Go ahead, regen a shield - in hell.

Aces will still be around because they're a great value for your points and compared to other ships still kind of hard to kill relatively, but I imagine a lot of squads will change to have 3-4 Chip Squadrons instead of just another Ace. 36 point Poe and 4 Concussion Z's with Chips?

Miranda with TLT, Homing Missles, Extra Munitions, and LRS/Chips is 42 points. Weapons Engineer to go to 45 for extra turn 1 TL shenanigans and there you go. Oh look, 3 TorTala Chips with Homing Missiles fits right in for 99.

I recently did the math on the following fleet:

Lt. Blount

+ VI

+ XX Thread Tracers

5x Bandits

+ Concussions

+ Guidance Chips

​19.7​ expected damage vs a single target!!!!

In other words, massive overkill against anything but the tankiest Decimator.

See ya in hell, Fat Chewie.

I played a game where my friend proxied chimps across 4 Z's and had a 'fat' Ndru Suhlak with Engines, and all the Z's had Glitterstim. I lost my entire C-3PO Falcon to 3 Z's I think, lol. Not sure on the exact mix of missiles, I think it was one set of clusters, 2 sets of concussions, and he had an ion pulse Z to spare. Ndru didn't shoot.

Granted, I parked Lando's ass in front of them, but still. Even an experienced Falcon player would have trouble dodging all of those arcs round after round.

Fat Ghosts DoA? Hopefully. Death to pancakes.

There is something to having access to such burst damage at high PS though. I play a VI Boba and VI Engines Prockets Vader squad right now, and Boba has Homing Missiles. Vader with a TL and Focus can swoop in on something about to wreck Boba and just delete it, and Boba can put the hurt on something too with his EM Homing Missiles. One might consider putting a Torp and chips on a regen Poe.

Well... you shouldn't have to dodge them all round after round. Between the Falcon and whatever support ships you've got – whether it's another large ship or a couple of aces, or 3 or 4 basic ships – you should be whittling those Headhunters down reasonably quickly. And if they are focusing on the Falcon, that gives you the chance to outmanoeuvre them with the rest of your squadron.

I'm glad ordnance is getting some new life breathed into it, and I'm looking forward to seeing more viable options on tables, but I don't think it's going to become all-powerful. It's certainly not going to make ordnance carriers any less vulnerable to a well-placed volley. And squadrons that rely on all ordnance become one-trick ponies, which is always risky. We might not be able to see what the hard counter to that is yet, but there'll be one.

I disagree. Once everyone realizes that you can just, "... Aaaaaaannnd it's gone" pretty easily actually to an entire Decimator, there will be less Phantom, Vader, 16 point TIE Squads or the Rebel Poe equivalent.

Go ahead, regen a shield - in hell.

Makes me a bit sad for Gonk Bossk, actually. Still worth it, though, although I don't expect it to be as dominant as you predict now.

It's not a bad list. It's just not an all-consuming annihilation. It's probably going to be competitive like any number of other lists.

And that's what excites me about Chimps and LRS. I think they're good enough to make ordnance lists A Thing, but their requirements / opportunity cost is big enough that you kind of have to have a dedicated ordnance carrier to run them, which is a balancing factor in and of itself. If I end the alpha strike phase with two of my three aces left against, say, 5 Z-95s two of which have missiles unfired... that's a game, you know?

<stupid formatting....quote supposed to go below>

I've played with ordnance quite a bit. I've played with Tie Bombers before all the fixes and done well. While I'm not the best player in the world, I have learned some things about ordnance from many games of actually using ordnance. I have tried it on a wide variety of ships besides Bombers, too. It comes from a mad obsession with taking things that are broken and making them work. I only say this to because I'm not just talking out of my exhaust port.

There are problems with Missile Z-swarms. The low PS does make it hard to get the TL on targets. While you can learn the Rule of 11 and get clever, it can still be a challenge, especially when playing vs. someone who knows what to expect. I know the first time I play people with my Tie Bombers it's a lot easier than the 3rd of 4th game. Z's can't get LRS and will have to get the TL before they fire. Good players will be able to use this to their advantage. My Tie Bombers also carry Bombs for those good players that want to stay out of R3 and then edge into R1. Z's don't have Bombs. Z's also don't have great dials and you can arc dodge them. I mean this that any ship can really arc dodge them by just avoiding their arc, as opposed to boost+br out. Play smart and use slow/fast dial picks to avoid their firing arcs. Not a perfect method, but do-able....especially if they gun for one ship and the rest of the list is going the other way behind you.

Oh, Z's can get Blount and Tracers. Well....if you are dumb enough to put your biggest target in range to be Blounted then you deserve it. Use the rest of your list to shred as many as you can while they go for your big target. Also.....Tracers will give all the Z's one target to fire at. How many missiles does it take to kill that one target? What happens when it's dead? If you have a big ship, sure, you are in trouble. If you don't.....you aren't in as much trouble as all that. It might mean that one ship of yours gets blown to bits, but the rest of your list can still shred the Z's. Blount is great vs. one main target, but even that can be used as a lure in a trap. Even if you fail, as long as your list doesn't rely on one ship, it can probably still work to destroy the rest of the list. 3 Aces lists might be in trouble, but they also might be fine, depending on the players of both sides. Other lists that have a bit more balance to them will be fine. Brobots will be in trouble. Swarms are fine.

I say that we will see Missile Z-swarms and you will need to learn to defeat them, but they won't be the meta smashing tool that some think. It will change the game, but not wreck it.

<quote goes here>

You know, I'm not sure if I agree with this. I do agree that you will have dedicated ordnance ships like Tie Bombers in lists (Tomax Bren especially), but I think you will also see other ships take ordnance when you didn't before. There are a lot of lists out there that take things like a lone Z-95 in there. Cheap blocker and another thing that shoots. Well, maybe you can scrap up the points to put a missile and GC on it? First chance you get to blast away at something and you do. It's kind of a late turn strike. Put it with other threat ships and will your opponent gun for the Z or your bigger ships? Even if they do, it's still probably a cheaper ship that you lost when compared to your other ships. Let them fear the missile.

I do see a chance for aces or even mid-PS ships to have ordnance. I won or placed in a lot of Wave 1-3 events using Vader w/ Concussion Missile and Backstabber as a flanker with Dark Curse and some Academy Pilots. They would come in and hit the same target in the first round. Concussion with Vader (included TL) meant usually did a fair amount of damage and Backstabber could usually finish what was left. It didn't matter if it was a generic, to be honest, but great for higher PS ships. If you can delete one of their ships in the first pass...before it even fires, then you are doing great. I can see that there will be people that take ordnance on ships that didn't normally take them before after the fixes. I mean, Vader w/ Homing Missile doesn't even need GC to be effective. He can keep his Engine Upgrade, but still make a mess of Soontir with Homing Missiles.

I can see having a balanced list with one ship that has ordnance can be effective. It wouldn't have to be a dedicated ordnance carrier, but just one ship that has something added to it for extra effect. Your list won't live and die by the ordnance, but being able to get that shot in early will certainly help your list win.

Let's say you have a list with 2 TLT Y-wings. What if you found points to put on a Proton Torp and GC on one of them? Your first TLT fires to strip tokens, but then you get one 4 dice shot that has a good chance of getting a crit through. You still have your TLT to whittle people down, but it's less of a chore when you were able to blast someone with a torpedo first. Not really a bad option, if you can find the points.

Tie Advanced ships that aren't aces are good options for ordnance. They can take Homing Missiles, which are the most accurate and don't need the modification that is required for GC. People now use Cluster Missiles with Accuracy Corrector. What if you use GC? Chances are that one of your rolls will have 2 hits on it that you can bump up to 3 for that turn. It's a free upgrade that can make them even more effective.

Tie Advanced Prototype V1 gives you an Evade and a TL. We don't know if the mid PS generic gets an EPT, but what if it did? You skip AutoThrusters to get GC and a Homing Missile and...throw on Juke for your EPT. You get the to use the TL, they can't Evade, and you can use your Evade token to modify one of their green dice. Do it after they have spent their tokens and it could be devastating. Yes, you lose Auto Thrusters, but you can get a free Evade every round you TL and that's not defenseless.

I never understood why Fat Han didn't take an Assault Missile. The swarm was the natural predator of Fat Han and the Assault Missile was great against it. Fat Han has the built in re-roll! Give him a Focus and chances are you were going to be hitting your target. Maybe not as big a deal now, but I never did get that one. You roll like crap and Fat Han just lets you re-roll.

I'm hoping ordnance can tilt things more towards people playing a well balanced list. I think ordnance in the hands of a good player can really negate some of the current meta right now. I like that.