What are games going to decolve in to post chimps?

What I am implying; throwing 3+ 4 dice ordinance attacks with chimps at PS 9 is going to obliterate rather large segments of a good deal of lists. Further, 4-5 of those chimp attacks are going to create a who blinks first paper rock scissors effect.

PS 9 or even 10 in the case of Kraken and many other ordinace carriers will have a large effect on match ups. As it stands pre chimps I believe we are seeing a similar effect from glitter crack HLC bots. One in which games are being dominated by through put that is not even being accounted for in the current store champs meta.

What madness has FFG unleashed?

Well putting blanks to crits would be good on proton torpedo but that doesn't necessarily mean minimum 2 hits. You can still roll all blanks or all focuses (which Horton Salm loves to do every time I fire a proton).

It is tricky, you are still weighing a TL reroll modification in comparison to a blank to hit/crit conversion. For me I am more concerning with the hit probability than the effects of the hit (unless it applies without a hit) so it will be good for proton torpedoes but not much else.

Now the big question is would the better attack make up for the points spent on the upgrades. It is still 4 points for a single torpedo and 6 for a double and fired or not that is still MOV points if that ship gets destroyed. It helps allot more than EM but will it actually put missiles and torpedoes in the meta the way that HLC and TLT are isn't looking that good. HLC and TLT were some serious power creep. It is hard to match that level.

How are you getting 3+ attacks at PS 9 on the first pass?

You can technically mount a torpedo to Wedge or VI Keyan, and the Falcon can carry them too... but these aren't necessarily good ideas.

Wedge with predator chimps proton torpedo is just one example of an extremely consistent gun. I have been having pretty extreme success with essentially inefficient ships since August, like this wedge. I don't understand how more efficiency wont break things?!?!

Wedge with predator chimps proton torpedo is just one example of an extremely consistent gun. I have been having pretty extreme success with essentially inefficient ships since August, like this wedge. I don't understand how more efficiency wont break things?!?!

Consistent for 1 attack. Now depending on that attack is what you want to do. If you have proton torpedoes you want to wait untill shields are down however if you have plasma then it would be wasted on a 0-1 shielded ship.

And don't forget if you're running chips on wedge, you've neither engine or IA.

X-wings were underpowered.

Ordinance was underpowered.

You're left picking precisely one fix.

In summary... No trench runs for you, come back one year

the results are in: im going to marry Nera Dantels!

Wedge, Kraken, and Jake delete Vader/Poe/Whisper/Miranda/Stressbot/sometimes IG/Dash in one round of shooting, not all the time right now... But, reliably. With chimps on the Z and X... We are looking at top ships as paper rock scissored.

I want to make a point about dice, because everyone seems to argue the exception to prove a point(beginning with glitter stim). Red dice are better than greens. No one would give any credence to the claim, " I'm confident in my 3 greens with focus vs that focused homing missile shot." I am not proposing green dice don't work, so don't make an argument out of the unlikely. Focus target locked shots are regarded highly, now add chimps.

I've tested z swarm a lot. It's going to be a meta standard.

It's going to be ugly Rainbow. Ugly. 6 ordinance shots, strongk. It makes me wonder if large ships that can't arc dodge will be playable.

At PS2, one probably dies before it ever shoots ordnance because it wont get a target lock before getting shot at. After that, sure 5x4 dice will be decent, but you might even lose another one before they all get to shoot again due to low PS. Z-95s die super fast. Large ships will be able to shake off the single volley since you have no way to get focus and TL reliably and guidance chips don't let you reroll focus results. Are guidance chips going to make ordnance worth using? Maybe, but still doubtful, there are simply still much better options out there. Now you will see it on things like N'Dru who didn't really use that modification slot before and loves using Cluster Missiles w/ Glitterstim.

It's going to be ugly Rainbow. Ugly. 6 ordinance shots, strongk. It makes me wonder if large ships that can't arc dodge will be playable.

Aces are almost unplayable against it.

Wedge with predator chimps proton torpedo is just one example of an extremely consistent gun. I have been having pretty extreme success with essentially inefficient ships since August, like this wedge. I don't understand how more efficiency wont break things?!?!

At PS2, one probably dies before it ever shoots ordnance because it wont get a target lock before getting shot at. After that, sure 5x4 dice will be decent, but you might even lose another one before they all get to shoot again due to low PS. Z-95s die super fast. Large ships will be able to shake off the single volley since you have no way to get focus and TL reliably and guidance chips don't let you reroll focus results. Are guidance chips going to make ordnance worth using? Maybe, but still doubtful, there are simply still much better options out there. Now you will see it on things like N'Dru who didn't really use that modification slot before and loves using Cluster Missiles w/ Glitterstim.

If you primary attack value is 2, you can straight up convert any one die result to a hit. If your primary weapon value is 3, you can convert any one die to a crit. It's not only a blank to hit, it's anything to a hit/crit. And it's not a reroll.

It's going to be ugly Rainbow. Ugly. 6 ordinance shots, strongk. It makes me wonder if large ships that can't arc dodge will be playable.

Aces are almost unplayable against it.

Thank god.

What is the Z ordnance list you've been running?

Wedge with predator chimps proton torpedo is just one example of an extremely consistent gun. I have been having pretty extreme success with essentially inefficient ships since August, like this wedge. I don't understand how more efficiency wont break things?!?!

I had been going to post something along the lines of "this is a terrible idea" using much the same logic Reiver did, but after looking at the numbers... I'm not so sure.

A Proton Torpedo with Chips and 1 Predator reroll averages 3.73 hits. Shooting at a generic and getting the second Predator reroll bumps it to 3.86. Throw in a Focus token and it's 3.87 or 3.96 (depending on how many rerolls you get). You do not get range 3 against this, and the shooter is Wedge so he's giving you -1 agility on top of it. And don't forget that there are up to 2 free criticals being thrown in the mix here.

Eh... ouch?

I originally I dismissed the quad Proton Torpedo, quad T-65 list with quad chips. Forgot that with 3 attack dice primary chips all of their rolls with be hit hit crit crit lol.

I'm still putting my money on the self-modifiable ordnance, Ion Pulses and Homing Missiles and Proton Rockets. These don't require you to spend the prerequisite TL/Focus they need to activate, so with chips these are going to max out on more often than not.

In my experience with alpha strike builds this season, I'm like 15+/2 vs ace builds. Using tons of different squads. I want to echo and amplify Rainbow on ordinance wrecking aces.

I think powerful alpha strike squads bring squads of 3-4 tough jousters to the fore. Ships that soak damage well enough to force an extra warhead to be expended, with remaining ships that can out-fight the ships with empty magazines.

Example 1)

2 x7 TIE Defenders with Juke + Omega Leader with Juke and Comms Relay. The Defenders take about 3 warheads to kill, and they should kill one Z95 before it fires, so you're looking at a Defender and Omega Leader vs 4 Z95s with one Missile between them. I feel pretty good about the Imperials in that matchup. That is, of course, if the Zs all manage to get Target Locks and arcs on a ship in the first place. It's not a hard counter, but it's definitely got a fighting chance.

I also think this meta can start a PS race to the middle. PS2 are the cheapest carriers, but torp-boat JM5Ks are PS3, that pushes you toward Talas, Grays, and Gammas, which in turn hands the trump card to Gamma Vets for massed ordnance delivery, but the Gamma Vets get out-fought by punchy, tought mid-PS ships that can take advantage of the Vets and their more limited magazine space.

I think regenerators and low HP repositioning aces take it pretty hard, because all of a sudden there's 3-5 HLCs (effectively) pointed in their general direction instead of maybe one. It's very hard to dodge that many arcs, and it's very hard to take that kind of offense.

4 daggers can really shred z swarm too.

4 daggers can really shred z swarm too.

Yeah, "mid-PS jouster" is a niche that I think will get a lot more play pretty soon.

I recently did the math on the following fleet:

Lt. Blount

+ VI

+ XX Thread Tracers

5x Bandits

+ Concussions

+ Guidance Chips

​19.7​ expected damage vs a single target!!!!

In other words, massive overkill against anything but the tankiest Decimator.

I also think this meta can start a PS race to the middle. PS2 are the cheapest carriers, but torp-boat JM5Ks are PS3, that pushes you toward Talas, Grays, and Gammas, which in turn hands the trump card to Gamma Vets for massed ordnance delivery, but the Gamma Vets get out-fought by punchy, tought mid-PS ships that can take advantage of the Vets and their more limited magazine space.

I think regenerators and low HP repositioning aces take it pretty hard, because all of a sudden there's 3-5 HLCs (effectively) pointed in their general direction instead of maybe one. It's very hard to dodge that many arcs, and it's very hard to take that kind of offense.

A PS race to the middle is ideal. When it's at either extreme it's either not relevant because everyone else is also PS 1-2, or it's hyper relevant to the point where entire games are decided purely because one person won initiative with their PS 10 and made their opponent's PS 10 move first, or by having VI on your Prockets Vader so that your opponent's non-VI Prockets Vader has no chance.

Pilot skill should play a significant role in outcomes of games, but not to the point where it's the sole deciding factor like with a lot of Acewing games now. A mid PS oriented meta provides this, IMO.

I'm not sure this will crush the game any more than tlt did (not). I recall hearing turrets are dead and that only quad tlt remained in the game. I have to imagine this is similar in that yes ordnance joust lists will be good and scary but I would be quite surprised if suddenly aces disappeared.

The high PS alpha strikes prefer the ace matchup... And do very very well vs tlt. I don't think the mid tier PS bid makes any sense. Without glitter support the Z swarm will get hit very hard vs 3 ace PS ordinance shots. Even worse for mid tier PS. IMO high PS alpha will be where aces can shine now. The arc dodge game is definitely behind it now.

I don't think the mid tier PS bid makes any sense.

It puts you ahead of other swarms, and that matters a LOT vs ships who are trying to get a Target Lock.

Meanwhile, you still get the large number of ships necessary to spread out the damage.

The metagame for Wave 2-3 was entirely this, where people were wondering how to buff ships to get people to pay to get the unique pilots, when clearly extra HP and attack dice from extra ships were superior.

Well, FFG figured that one out, lol.

Mid PS ships with Chips and Homing Missiles will be able to simply force their opponent to start the engagement sans a low PS Homing Missile Chip bandit or two.

I played my 3x Omega Squadron, 3x Black Squadron, 6x Crackshot list against a 3x AC Tempest and ATC Vader list once. What happened was I simply deleted 2 of my opponent's Tempests before they could even fire. My opponent jousted all 6 of them and I closed to range 1.

In order to mitigate this, I think the lower PS player would be better off attacking from multiple angles, this way your opponent can't focus fire down multiple ships because he'll only be able to bring concentrated fire in one direction. I haven't played a Joustwing game in a while so I'd have to refresh myself.

Chip ordnance spam ditto matches are going to place a heavy emphasis on maneuvering.