Yeah, and the above works even better with Serpent Dagger!

Elder Mock: We play him with his ability being once per round, instead of once per turn (and by the standard rules, he can make use of each other hero using surge to recover fatigue and such) and he is still insanely powerful with that heroic feat on top.

Mok's hero ability says "Once per turn, when another hero...". I read that as once per Mok's turn, not once per any hero turn. So the distinction you are making of using it once per round vs turn wouldn't change anything. Has this every been officially clarified? Is it really usable once per each hero turn, not just once per Mok's turn?

Yes, it is each hero's turn, and the overlord's turn.

Yes, it is each hero's turn, and the overlord's turn.

Yep, that's pretty **** strong then! Guess I know which set I am painting next to add to the game

It is *** strong!

Think of the synergy of Mok as a bard with Ispher and Varikas (CK).

It is *** strong!

Think of the synergy of Mok as a bard with Ispher and Varikas (CK).

Think of the synergy with High Mage Quellen "does a hero within 3 have fatigue?" yes. Quellen recovers a fatigue. "did a hero within 3 recover health or fatigue?" yes. Elder Mok recovers 1 health or fatigue.

Soz if I've missed it, but has anyone tried running Dezra/Shiver as hybrid class Battlemage yet? On paper, it looks like that should make Dezra actually worth a try now, maybe even the best choice for said class?

If so which Warrior class did/would you try? Knight, Bezerker & Skirmisher seem like the top three.

Looking forward to finding some time to try it myself with Road to Legend soon.

I have not played it yet, but Dezra would be interesting as a knight since her hero ability makes her love being adjacent to monsters.

Shiver would be an interesting defender, too.

I plan on trying one of these heroes as battle mages in an upcoming Delve. We'll see how it goes!

They both definitely seem well suited for Warrior classes due to their heroic abilities. Also Dezra would benefit from the tons of bonus HP that a Berserker has access to.

Its a shame the Berserker class isn't really viable in traditional Descent...

I played Dezra/Battlemage/Knight during a RtL campaign and it was absolutely my favorite Knight combo. During at least one scenario she was able to lock down boss enemies using Guard/Shield Slam.

Basically allowing the monster to move adjacent, performing an attack, using the surge for shield slam to stun the monster. Monster would then be forced to discard stun as its remaining action. Dezra then activates, recovers the fatigue or health, attacks and takes one step back, repeat.

2 hours ago, Druaightagh said:

Soz if I've missed it, but has anyone tried running Dezra/Shiver as hybrid class Battlemage yet? On paper, it looks like that should make Dezra actually worth a try now, maybe even the best choice for said class?

If so which Warrior class did/would you try? Knight, Bezerker & Skirmisher seem like the top three.

Looking forward to finding some time to try it myself with Road to Legend soon.

Have you played the necromancer?

On 6/28/2016 at 3:50 PM, DAMaz said:

I really enjoy playing Orkell as a Skirmisher as well.

However if you are not able to get Cloak of Deception , I think he will truly run into problems in Act II. Most armors would reduce his speed or boost his survivability only marginal.

I haven't played a final with Orkell yet, but in the final he wouldn't even have a heroic feat. (Since I play with Orkell and Rendiel , the final might turn out ugly since I only have 2 heroic feats). So I think he really is underpowerd in the final (or when he can't get revived).

do you have logan and quellen as well? because right now i have rendiel and orkell.(excuse the spelling)

edit: d2e was clearly made with some ideas in mind. I have seen heroes and asked myself, is this even worth playing? however some of the hybrid combos make sense.

I understand why spirtspeaker isn't liked(i am playing it right now), it has almost no healing, and doesn't seem that great at attacking until you get a few 3's, expenses that take almost half the campaign. vigor is nice though.

Orkell has been more than helpful as skirmisher. so far, he has been doing well starting weapons were a pain though. B+G/ +2 on surge or B+Y(or R) with re-roll. I do like the build mentioned on page one or two, but i have a different plan. I will eventually give out the results of my campaign in HoB. my team is Quellen geomancer, Orkell skirmisher, Logan Treasure hunter(some might already know that though), and rendiel spiertspeaker. so far(three quests in) only logan is overpowered i think, he's about to get guard the spoils, yay.

Has Anybody find a way to play Serena competitively ?

2 hours ago, rugal said:

Has Anybody find a way to play Serena competitively ?

As a self-contained hero? (aka Logan the you-know-what). No.

But Serena the Spiritspeaker w/ Andira the Bard is extremely effective versus high-figure monster groups. I used Orkell the Skirmisher and (been a while) I think it was a Runemaster maybe... something that does well against tougher monsters.

This was in RTL, though. A human OL would be biased towards low figure count groups against that duo, I'd think.

I recently played Heirs of Blood against Serena in a fairly good team to support her:

Serena - Bard
Reynhart - Champion
Ravaella - Hexer
Logan - Stalker

Reynhart had good weapons and was generating valor tokens like crazy to be used for additional shields. Ravaella had Plague Cloud/Internal Rot and with her black defense die could efficiently protect Serena. Logan is just Logan, even though the Stalker class was lackluster. Still, Serena was the weakest link. Her low Speed together with the brown defense die and 8 Health is just terrible. She was always targeted and cost the team a lot of fatigue to protect her. When attacked by multiple monsters she still went down, as fatigue from her protectors was limiting. She cost the team LOTS of actions in the course of the that campaign.

she would be good with plate mail

Okaluk and Rakash would be good with platemail, she'd just be less terrible. I can't imagine what FFG was thinking building her like that.

Stone armor is good stuff on Okuluk & Rakash, lol. I'd have a hard time doing that without feeling like a win-at-all-costs person, though.

Serena is fun to play, but definitely not top tier. I feel like at a minimum her attributes could have tallied up to 13 or even 14, but as it stands, look at how much Augur Grissom gains in exchange for 1 stamina compared to Serena.

And as an hybrid class, does anybody have tried stuff ?

I personnaly tried her as
- spiritspeaker, fun, but nothing impressive, even if the can recovers many health with stamina
- Disciple, useless, she often out of range and needs many fatigue to be with other
- Bard, nothing terrible, same as above
- Apothecary, nothing special, many other does stuff better than she is
- Prophet, maybe the better choice since the class asks for many fatigue, that she has

but would she be a good watchmen-bounty hunter for example ?

If only Serena could be a Monk, or if there existed a skill that she could get that was like "Vow of Freedom". I really like that skill because it turns that base brown die from a liability to an asset - essentially making the brown die have four "2 shield" faces and two "1 shield" faces. That's an outstanding defense die.

As it is, I think she really only works as a Tempest + Ancestral Spirits Spiritspeaker, and requires lots of support in the form of Cloak of Mists and party shielding. She just doesn't have the Mobility and Hero abilities to make an effective Scout hybrid.

18 hours ago, Lightningclaw said:

Serena is fun to play, but definitely not top tier. I feel like at a minimum her attributes could have tallied up to 13 or even 14, but as it stands, look at how much Augur Grissom gains in exchange for 1 stamina compared to Serena.

It's just dumbfounding, her hero ability has nothing to do with soothing spirit and unless your in a four player game she's actually significantly more durable as a ally than a hero.

On 21.9.2017 at 1:09 AM, rugal said:

Has Anybody find a way to play Serena competitively ?

I tried her as a disciple in Act I. Atually, I really liked the combo. I didn't buy any skills to save for Radiant Light . In the first quests, she was rather taking the part of the scout (moving up to six spaces via stamina, perform a search action, rest) or supporter (healing and supporting the warrior). Then, I bought Radiant Light (and a second shield, thus she didn't have any weapon equipped but two shields instead - sounds weird but we didn't find any rule forbidding this). In the first turn/round I positioned her carefully (up to nine spaces via stamina + move action + rest). Now, she needed to survive the overlord's turn. In her second turn, she casted Radiant Light up to two times. Two times Radiant Light deals 2 - 6 damage to all monsters in your line of sight ignoring all defense dice . Oh, and it heals all the other heroes. This made her extremly powerfull, e.g. killing all goblin archers in one turn or weakening strong monsters with massive defense dice (like shadow dragons). Radiant Light dealing damage in line of sight (and not in e.g. 3 spaces within) proved to be really strong. The overlord had to be extremely careful in positioning his monsters (especially goblin archers) since there was always the option for Serena to move up to six spaces (3 via move, 3 via stamina) and cast Radiant Light with the chance to kill all goblin archers. I remember a round where Serena killed all barghests ... In conclusion, the overlord hated her while I loved her. Okay, the turn after casting Radiant Light two times was rather limited but the turn before seemed game changing/winning. I couldn't try her in Act II (since our group splitted) but I think that she's powerful there, too. Some monsters like goblin archers have only 4 health in Act II. I remember some situations in Act II where even the warrior didn't deal any damage to e.g. a shadow dragon in Act II with one black and one grey defense die - but I imagine Serena ignoring those dice and casting Radiant Light two times dealing two damage (lame) up to six (leaving the minion shadow dragon with two health).

I dunno, I like that combo ... but feel free to add your thoughts!

I thought of this combo too, but she will do it once on 2 turns, and may heroes does this better than her (Okaluk and Rakash for example. He can move, use radiant light and rest on the same time, horrible)

4 hours ago, rugal said:

I thought of this combo too, but she will do it once on 2 turns, and may heroes does this better than her (Okaluk and Rakash for example. He can move, use radiant light and rest on the same time, horrible)

True. But once vs. twice can make a big difference. 1-3 vs. 2-6 damage. If you're unlucky, monsters like goblin archers will survive. I tried to cast two Radiant Lights in critical situations/quest changing moments where you need to e.g. kill all monsters (goblins) at once or where you plan to kill some shadow dragons (e.g. another hero opens the door to bring some monsters into Serena's line of sight, Serena weakens them, the warrior brings it to an end). Okaluk and Rakash casting Radiant Light would feel like throwing a grenade each round. With Serena it rather feels like planting the bomb in the first round, waiting for the countdown and letting it detonate with a big BOOM the next round.

Sure, there are some ifs and whens when playing Serena like this. And in some rounds you won't be able to detonate but then you're still fast (9 movement points via stamina, move and rest) and versatile. And a clever overlord can avoid such situations - but he has to be extremely careful. We all know how tricky line of sight can be thus the overlord has to be really aware of his monster positions/movements (I remember looking up the LoS-rules a couple of times and having some discussions with a desperate overlord because of line of sight & Radiant Light across three map tiles). In some situations it can limit the overlord's degrees of freedom extremely. And a limited overlord is a good overlord.

I kinda feel like the important question is hero/class combinations rather than heroes in the abstract as individuals. Augur Grishom is a very solid healer by himself, but in a party with Trenloe and Leoric he can really shine.

Of course there are a few heroes like Elder Mok or Astarra where they're so good they're practically a one-hero combo, but even there, it's usually because their abilities combine well with a particular class (Mok Bard, Astarra Conjuror, etc.).