Echo is a lot of fun, but Whisper is just a much

...

Thoughts?

Echo decloaking is a lot of fun, but if you're trying to win on a competitive level, Whisper is a much safer place to put your points. Shooting and moving at 1PS higher and getting the free defensive focus token are not trivial things. That one focus token can at times convert two focus symbols on a defense roll which in turn is about 20pts worth of ship that's not damaged. If you want to do Whisper/Decimator, here's a very common build:

Echo is a lot of fun, but Whisper is just a much

...

Thoughts?

Echo decloaking is a lot of fun, but if you're trying to win on a competitive level, Whisper is a much safer place to put your points. Shooting and moving at 1PS higher and getting the free defensive focus token are not trivial things. That one focus token can at times convert two focus symbols on a defense roll which in turn is about 20pts worth of ship that's not damaged. If you want to do Whisper/Decimator, here's a very common build:

Rear Admiral Chiraneau (46)

Adaptability (0)

Emperor Palpatine (8)

Rebel Captive(3)

Engine Upgrade (4)

"Whisper" (32)

Veteran Instincts (1)

Fire-Control System (2)

Advanced Cloaking Device (4)

Total: 100

The 3pt crew on the Decimator can be Rebel Captive or Vader. I tend to prefer Rebel Captive, but it depends on what you're having a hard time with. Honestly, you could even remove that crew and replace it with a crew for Whisper. That 3pts is kind of open to debate, but the other 97pts probably shouldn't be tampered with too much.

Using Whisper with a lower PS Decimator, like RAC without adaptability, or Oicunn, is fine in about 95% of matches, but in that 5% where you go up against a list that's using Rebel Captive, you'll be a very sad panda. Moving at the same PS also gives Whisper a safe place to move, since you can set her dial to fill the space that your Decimator is leaving.

I think RAC with Engine is a good choice in the current meta, simply because he can give trouble to defenders but also it's one of the few ships fast enough to chase Manaroo into the ground.

Some great points and advice. Thanks!

I am definitely going to try out Collision Detector on Whisper as I think flying through debris can give him some options on maneuvering. Then the extra points would add Intelligence Agent on Whisper and Ysanne to the Decimator.

In my opinion, as an on-again-off-again Phantom flyer, PS8 is not competitive enough. Strictly speaking, you lose too easily to Dengar, a hot pilot right now. And you'll always see Soontir, even if he's not the MOST popular right now.

So PS9 or bust.

SOME have flown them well enough to ride even low PS to victory... I don't think that's really possible anymore. If it is, it takes far more dedication (and luck) than I'm willing to put into it.

I've shifted my recent Decimator fetish to this list:
Kenkirk + Lone Wolf + Emperor Palpatine + Ysanne ISard
Whisper + ACD + FCS + Tactician + VI

Rings in at 99 points. I've found that with decloaks and whatnot, I'm almost always at range 2 with my phantom. When I'm not, then obviously I'm at R1 or 3, usually 1. So I either get that 5th attack dice, or I give them a stress at R2.

Kirk gets reasonably tanky once his shields are gone, with 1 agi, palp, and an evade token. I like to run Kirk through the grinder to strip his shields and get tanky, then kite anything that chases the emperor around while mowing the grass with whisper. The Decimator makes a great distraction for getting a fragile ace into position, unlike the Lambda, which isn't a threat once you aren't in its arc.

I'm not a fan of Rebel Captive in the current meta. It doesn't do anything against Dengaroo, which I think is why we're seeing Decimators pop up again (maybe, I don't know).

Decimators are good against Dengaroo.

Rebel captive is still decent though - especially against Soontir.

I actually feel that this is the time for Vader (pilot) to make his triumphant return. He only struggled against triple torpedo scouts. Against Dengaroo, he's actually quite good (especially if you have palpatine on the decimator).

This particular list counters the two top meta builds quite well:

Oicunn w/ predator, palpatine, rebel captive, engine upgrade + ion bombs = 62

Vader w/ lone wolf, X-1, ATC & engine = 36

98

Interestingly enough, Vader 1v1 against Dengar (after decimator and Manaroo are gone) fairs VERY well. Dengar is actionless, so Vader can easily control range and gets all the mods. Unlike Whisper, who really struggles to not just die when Dengar rushes her.

Rebel Captive + palpatine means he also trumps Soontir in a palp aces build, and Oicunn is very effective at scaring aces away (between the ion bomb and his bump ability).

Slicer tools have no effect on it. Ventress and the new Shadowcaster have no notable advantages against it. Even Quickdraw is meh against it.

What makes lower PS, non-PTL/Ysanne gimmick Decimators a decent matchup against Dengaroo? I totally get why arc dodging in a Decimator works, not sure about the others.

And I've been thinking of breaking out Vader again as well, though have been playing with Defenders as the new shiny. I enjoyed running Maarek w/ Predator & x7 alongside a RAC w/ VI, Palp, Ysanne and EU (maybe some items I'm missing, don't feel like opening the app). When not worried about defense as much in the opening salvos, you can use Palp to confirm a crit for Maarek's ability.

I still worry about bringing a Decimator vs other lists, though.

Well, Kirk for example can move to block Dengar, and still gets his action. With lone wolf, he gets to reroll a blank on both offense and defense. So with Agi 1, a reroll, and an evade token from Isard, he's guaranteed (with palp) to dodge two hits per turn, minimum (more if I cower behind obstacles, or get out to range 3). I always focus with him, so I have that ready for defense too, if I need it. It's really fairly beefy in a meta that has a lot of 2 or 3 ship lists. It's fun to see the frustration when it gets to start kiting at range 3 and people can't get damage through.

It really almost wants to get hit with Dengar's first proton torpedo, just to strip the shields and start getting that evade/agi combo before the crits start falling. It *does* tend to suffer against multiple attack ships, or against high body count lists, unless it can separate the ships and chew them up piecemeal. A swarm that sticks together eats it alive. One that breaks up to block/harass can get eaten up quickly, especially once whisper plows in and starts dropping bodies.

This particular list counters the two top meta builds quite well:

Oicunn w/ predator, palpatine, rebel captive, engine upgrade + ion bombs = 62

Vader w/ lone wolf, X-1, ATC & engine = 36

98

I literally just registered this list for a local 6 week league if you swap Oicunn with Predator & Ion Bomb for RAC with VI (thought the PS10 would give Dengar, Soontir and Whisper a harder time). Even have that 2pt bid for my PS9, Lone Wolf Vader.

S'good stuff.

A question.

First I would try to overthrow Manaroo

what name choose against Dangaroo using Kallus? Dengar or Manaroo?

A question.

First I would try to overthrow Manaroo

what name choose against Dangaroo using Kallus? Dengar or Manaroo?

Always Dengar. Always always always.

Top 8 Spain National. What list you like more? Defender or Phantom?

No news?

I'd welcome thought in the below list. I'm pretty much set on the pilots listed below, I love Ryad and though I usually take MK2 ion engines, Stealth Device with Palp has worked wonders for me. Kenkirk with Palp and Ysanne is a beast as well.

I took Hull Upgrade to fill out points, and because I don't have Anti pursuit lasers or Ion projectors. I suppose I could have a bomb in there?

VT-49 Decimator: · Commander Kenkirk (44)

Predator (3)

Hull Upgrade (3)

· Emperor Palpatine (8)

· Ysanne Isard (4)

=62

TIE Defender: · Countess Ryad (34)

Push The Limit (3)

Stealth Device (3)

TIE/x7 (-2)

=38

Why Push the limit?

Your possible actions are Focus / TL / BR. With 4 green + Palp + Evade + Focus (normally) you get quite reliable defense. You can boost it a bit further the line with Lone Wolf. That will at the same time boost your offensive power and it does not limit your moves to green each turn in which you wish to use your benefits. With only straight moves green you won't be able to surprise your opponent. Lone Wolf leaves your dial fully open when you choose Stealth Device and it still boosts your defense rolls when Palpatine is away.

And you will be able to upgrade Hull to Engine, thanks to which it will be easier for you to stay at range 3 which is where I think Kenkirk would love to be.. Seems like 2 green dice with evade and Emperor is quite ok, right? On a ship with 11 hull left?

Push the limit for full evade, focus and target lock every turn. You raise a good point about lone Wolf and possibly engine though.

I'd welcome thought in the below list. I'm pretty much set on the pilots listed below, I love Ryad and though I usually take MK2 ion engines, Stealth Device with Palp has worked wonders for me. Kenkirk with Palp and Ysanne is a beast as well.

I took Hull Upgrade to fill out points, and because I don't have Anti pursuit lasers or Ion projectors. I suppose I could have a bomb in there?

VT-49 Decimator: · Commander Kenkirk (44)

Predator (3)

Hull Upgrade (3)

· Emperor Palpatine (8)

· Ysanne Isard (4)

=62

TIE Defender: · Countess Ryad (34)

Push The Limit (3)

Stealth Device (3)

TIE/x7 (-2)

=38

PTL is a valid choice on Ryad, but Lone Wolf is great for a two-ship list too. Consider that you've got action economy already with TIE/x7, adding free rerolls is a good thing too.

I mistrust Stealth Device personally, and would always prefer the Engine Upgrade, particularly on a Kenkirk with Palp, Isard, and Predator - with those guys you don't need your action for dice modification, and adding EU will let you arc dodge against swarms, procket carriers, most TIE Defenders, and force Fang fighters to use their action to get in close rather than dice mods.

I ran something similar for a bit too that I really enjoyed. I put Lone Wolf on Kenkirk though and then ran Juke on Ryad and I really liked it. Made Kenkirk a little more tanky and still gave ryad more offense. I was worried about stress effects in the meta so I wanted to stay away from PTL.

I enjoy the list though.

So I came 3rd out of 15 I believe, it was just a friendly little event so everyone played 4 rounds and then ranking was v awesome in wins /losses/MOV. Only thing I lost to was Triple Defenders, which I expected as Defenders are weak to/strong against Defenders and I couldn't shake him. I got a few good blocks in to reduce incoming fire and the Decimator lasted until time was called, so that was something.

I actually took a Palpmobile/x7 list to a tournament today and...

I got creamed.

What with the current... ah... events recently, people are rediscovering Corran Horn, and I'm rediscovering my dislike of Rebel Regen.

Two ship lists just do not output enough firepower to take down a dedicated regen list. I think that's why Imperial Aces has so much problem with the list, because they basically play it like a two-ship list and leave Palp all by his lonesome. Yes, you can try to outfly it, but that's mentally taxing and prone to error.

Maybe Whisper/RAC could handle it, because they can drop a lot of fire into one ship and they're slippery to handle, but I'm not sure.

Three ships might be the cheese, but that means not loading up the Decimator too heavily, and excludes the use of Palpatine.

I actually took a Palpmobile/x7 list to a tournament today and...

I got creamed.

What with the current... ah... events recently, people are rediscovering Corran Horn, and I'm rediscovering my dislike of Rebel Regen.

Two ship lists just do not output enough firepower to take down a dedicated regen list. I think that's why Imperial Aces has so much problem with the list, because they basically play it like a two-ship list and leave Palp all by his lonesome. Yes, you can try to outfly it, but that's mentally taxing and prone to error.

Maybe Whisper/RAC could handle it, because they can drop a lot of fire into one ship and they're slippery to handle, but I'm not sure.

Three ships might be the cheese, but that means not loading up the Decimator too heavily, and excludes the use of Palpatine.

Going to start flying this personally:

Patrol Leader (44)

-Darth Vader

-Intel Agent

Delta Squadron Pilot (28)x2

-Tie/X7

3 aggresive ships, ps 1 blocking, Vader for "aces", and just a load of durability. I'm happy that u-boats were fixed because now I'm more comfortable bringing out my decimator.

That...

That looks pretty good. Solid anti-ace, very durable, high damage output if you can put all three guns on a target, and it'll be hard to dodge more than one of them if played well. Intel Agent on the Deci is a solid add as well, with its large base you'll get good play from it.

I had a slightly different thought for a three ship list, but this is more focused against Dengaroo than Rebel Regen while still having good play against the latter:

55 Rear Admiral Chiraneau w/ Veteran Instincts, Ysanne Isard, Engine Upgrade

24 Omicron Group Pilot w/ Collision Detector, Darth Vader

21 Zeta Leader w/ Crack Shot

The basic idea is that RAC arc dodges Dengar and shoots for Manaroo while the OGP jousts with Dengar to put more damage on him than he can take for the late game of RAC v. Dengar. ZetaL is just additional damage that can either keep up with RAC or work with the OGP on Dengar.

That...

That looks pretty good. Solid anti-ace, very durable, high damage output if you can put all three guns on a target, and it'll be hard to dodge more than one of them if played well. Intel Agent on the Deci is a solid add as well, with its large base you'll get good play from it.

I had a slightly different thought for a three ship list, but this is more focused against Dengaroo than Rebel Regen while still having good play against the latter:

55 Rear Admiral Chiraneau w/ Veteran Instincts, Ysanne Isard, Engine Upgrade

24 Omicron Group Pilot w/ Collision Detector, Darth Vader

21 Zeta Leader w/ Crack Shot

The basic idea is that RAC arc dodges Dengar and shoots for Manaroo while the OGP jousts with Dengar to put more damage on him than he can take for the late game of RAC v. Dengar. ZetaL is just additional damage that can either keep up with RAC or work with the OGP on Dengar.

I like the idea. Seeing a shuttle that isn't just a palpatine bus is great. Zeta Leader is awesome btw, have had excellent results with him. Wired is great on him, makes his defense pretty crazy (I flew him with a comm relay too though, and doubt the points are there for it).

NSW Australia was won by Jeff Dunster with RAC (Hot co-pilot, gunner, vader) and Ryad (with Juke iirc).

Dang. I've just purchased a hot shot co pilot to see how it does. Seems it'll really help against Defenders...

RAC had VI/Engine Upgrade?

NSW Australia was won by Jeff Dunster with RAC (Hot co-pilot, gunner, vader) and Ryad (with Juke iirc).

I know it won, and who am I to argue winners, but what about squeezing Palp on there instead of Vader/Gunner? I get the token stripping effectiveness of it, I guess I like the security blanket that is Palp.

If I concede to the Gunner/Hot Shot I hate killing myself, that's your job

How about this:

Rear Admiral Chiraneau (46)

Veteran Instincts (1)

Hotshot Co-pilot (4)

Rebel Captive (3)

Gunner (5)

Engine Upgrade (4)

Soontir Fel (27)

Push the Limit (3)

Autothrusters (2)

Stealth Device (3)

Royal Guard TIE (0)

Total: 98

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

Two points to play with, initiative or drop Fel (gasp!) for an X7 defender.