Any planetary scale weapon will still devastate them, especially one with Blast since they're going to be packed rather tightly together

If that planetary scale weapon does 35+ dmg then yes their 20 dmg reduction wont do much against that, but if they miss with an energy based weapon...

"sir we just fired our big ass laser at the group of rebels are you sure that was the best coarse of action?"

"Of course if anything it was a merciful and swift death"

"Um sir that big ass laser we just fired is coming back right at us"

"..."

PS the more you have with this build the better

If it's a planetary sized weapon like the Death Star it wouldn't be 35+ damage to characters. It would be 100 times that, so the damage is 3500 and no matter what the group would be vaporized. Now that 20 points reflected back to say the Death Star would be 100 times less damaging due to difference in weapon scale. It ultimately becomes .02 damage and the Death Star shrugs it off.

Using capital ship weapons it would be times 10 instead of 100, so the Jedi characters take 350 points of damage. They reflect a whopping 2 points of damage that is easily absorbed by the ship. Isn't weapon scale fun?

Im pretty sure the weapon scale stays the same since its still the same shot unless there's some ruling about reflect I havent read. Still it makes no sense if you fire a big ass shot it some how shrinks when it gets reflected back by someone smaller

PS to be fair if the GM is using that to take down PCs (with no ship) then he's an ass

Page 230 of F&D in the box titled Starships, Vehicles, and Scale, "When dealing with a vessel’s weapons, armor, and hull trauma threshold, every point is equal to 10 points of the equivalent characteristic in personal scale. For example, a laser cannon with a base damage of 3, mounted to a starfighter, deals 3 points of damage when fired at another spacecraft, but 30 points of damage when fired at a human. Conversely, a human-sized blaster rifle would need to deal 10 points of damage to a starship to inflict even 1 point of damage on it."

I followed the logic for starship weapons being 10 times more damage to a person on personal scale when it came to planetary scale weapons. A planetary scale weapon would deal 100 times the amount of damage compared to a personal scale weapon. Like I said in my example, the reflected damage is miniscule and absorbed easily while the party ends up dying due to massive damage.

You do realize that planetary scale is "vehicle" scale, right? There are only two levels - personal and planetary.

Sorry, I mistyped; I was thinking of Defensive Circle and instead typed something similar to Circle of Shelter. If the Jedi strain to take two maneuvers, they go from long->medium->short, at which point the commandos can strain for two maneuvers to reopen the distance. Considering everything else your Jedi are spending strain on, they're liable to run out first.

Another Achilles heel for this group: Dark Force Users. Several Force powers completely bypass all their defenses. Bind and Harm ignore soak. Move and Unleash bypass Reflect by virtue of not requiring a Ranged (Heavy), Ranged (Light), or Gunnery check. Forget using vehicle weapons against them, with such a tightly packed group, a skilled Force user could simply drop an airspeeder or an AT-ST on top of them to ruin their day.

Edit: All of which gets at why groups don't usually specialize to this degree. Aside from the desire for differentiation as opposed to spending ~300-400 xp on the exact same talents, it also leaves some glaring weaknesses. If one of those Guardians was a Consular Healer, they'd have an option to defend against Force powers. If one of them was a Warrior Starfighter Ace, they might have some air support to keep those vehicles from turning them into scorch marks. And if they had a Mystic Advisor, they could perhaps talk their way out of a few fights and not have to worry about taking any damage at all instead of having to phalanx up every time they're threatened.

Any planetary scale weapon will still devastate them, especially one with Blast since they're going to be packed rather tightly together

If that planetary scale weapon does 35+ dmg then yes their 20 dmg reduction wont do much against that, but if they miss with an energy based weapon...

"sir we just fired our big ass laser at the group of rebels are you sure that was the best coarse of action?"

"Of course if anything it was a merciful and swift death"

"Um sir that big ass laser we just fired is coming back right at us"

"..."

PS the more you have with this build the better

If it's a planetary sized weapon like the Death Star it wouldn't be 35+ damage to characters. It would be 100 times that, so the damage is 3500 and no matter what the group would be vaporized. Now that 20 points reflected back to say the Death Star would be 100 times less damaging due to difference in weapon scale. It ultimately becomes .02 damage and the Death Star shrugs it off.

Using capital ship weapons it would be times 10 instead of 100, so the Jedi characters take 350 points of damage. They reflect a whopping 2 points of damage that is easily absorbed by the ship. Isn't weapon scale fun?

Im pretty sure the weapon scale stays the same since its still the same shot unless there's some ruling about reflect I havent read. Still it makes no sense if you fire a big ass shot it some how shrinks when it gets reflected back by someone smaller

PS to be fair if the GM is using that to take down PCs (with no ship) then he's an ass

I followed the logic for starship weapons being 10 times more damage to a person on personal scale when it came to planetary scale weapons. A planetary scale weapon would deal 100 times the amount of damage compared to a personal scale weapon. Like I said in my example, the reflected damage is miniscule and absorbed easily while the party ends up dying due to massive damage.

Its still the same weapon though so if they managed to reflect it , it would keep all the properties and damage of the original weapon ie breach X vicious X, still planetary level

If you want to go that route then the most they can reflect is 2 points on the vehicle scaled weaponry. The talents are for personal scale damage not starship scale.

Note also that Improved Reflect requires the target to be inside Medium (personal scale) range, when vehicles could easily be attacking from Medium (planetary scale) range, which is almost certainly too far away for the talent to be effective. Heck, even Close (planetary) could well be outside Medium (personal) range. So even if the GM is feeling generous enough to allow the possibility of reflecting a planetary scale weapon, it's unlikely to help you against that airspeeder that's strafing you.

Edit: rulebook specifically says that close (planetary) range is slightly farther than extreme (personal) range.

Sorry, I mistyped; I was thinking of Defensive Circle and instead typed something similar to Circle of Shelter. If the Jedi strain to take two maneuvers, they go from long->medium->short, at which point the commandos can strain for two maneuvers to reopen the distance. Considering everything else your Jedi are spending strain on, they're liable to run out first.

Another Achilles heel for this group: Dark Force Users. Several Force powers completely bypass all their defenses. Bind and Harm ignore soak. Move and Unleash bypass Reflect by virtue of not requiring a Ranged (Heavy), Ranged (Light), or Gunnery check. Forget using vehicle weapons against them, with such a tightly packed group, a skilled Force user could simply drop an airspeeder or an AT-ST on top of them to ruin their day.

thats where improved bodyguard would come into play if for some reason you re about to take a large aoe attack one person takes ALL the damage leaving the others intact to continue fighting and maybe heal the downed character. These must be some very willful/agile NPCs to be able to do all this. As for unleash I always found that weird how it wasnt categorized as anything just "ranged attack" could be faulty writing on the developer's part. And ofc ALL these require successful checks while the PCs do not so statistically it is in their favor.

Sorry, I mistyped; I was thinking of Defensive Circle and instead typed something similar to Circle of Shelter. If the Jedi strain to take two maneuvers, they go from long->medium->short, at which point the commandos can strain for two maneuvers to reopen the distance. Considering everything else your Jedi are spending strain on, they're liable to run out first.

Another Achilles heel for this group: Dark Force Users. Several Force powers completely bypass all their defenses. Bind and Harm ignore soak. Move and Unleash bypass Reflect by virtue of not requiring a Ranged (Heavy), Ranged (Light), or Gunnery check. Forget using vehicle weapons against them, with such a tightly packed group, a skilled Force user could simply drop an airspeeder or an AT-ST on top of them to ruin their day.

thats where improved bodyguard would come into play if for some reason you re about to take a large aoe attack one person takes ALL the damage leaving the others intact to continue fighting and maybe heal the downed character. These must be some very willful/agile NPCs to be able to do all this. As for unleash I always found that weird how it wasnt categorized as anything just "ranged attack" could be faulty writing on the developer's part. And ofc ALL these require successful checks while the PCs do not so statistically it is in their favor.

Bodyguard doesn't work like you think it does. It requires the ally to be engaged as in engaged range. Anything beyond engaged range and Bodyguard can't be used it. A group of Stormtroopers all at medium, long, or extreme range shooting at the characters and Bodyguard can't be used. It doesn't work against AOE attacks etc... it is only good against melee attacks or single target shooting attacks done in engaged range.

Sorry, I mistyped; I was thinking of Defensive Circle and instead typed something similar to Circle of Shelter. If the Jedi strain to take two maneuvers, they go from long->medium->short, at which point the commandos can strain for two maneuvers to reopen the distance. Considering everything else your Jedi are spending strain on, they're liable to run out first.

Another Achilles heel for this group: Dark Force Users. Several Force powers completely bypass all their defenses. Bind and Harm ignore soak. Move and Unleash bypass Reflect by virtue of not requiring a Ranged (Heavy), Ranged (Light), or Gunnery check. Forget using vehicle weapons against them, with such a tightly packed group, a skilled Force user could simply drop an airspeeder or an AT-ST on top of them to ruin their day.

thats where improved bodyguard would come into play if for some reason you re about to take a large aoe attack one person takes ALL the damage leaving the others intact to continue fighting and maybe heal the downed character. These must be some very willful/agile NPCs to be able to do all this. As for unleash I always found that weird how it wasnt categorized as anything just "ranged attack" could be faulty writing on the developer's part. And ofc ALL these require successful checks while the PCs do not so statistically it is in their favor.

Bodyguard doesn't work like you think it does. It requires the ally to be engaged as in engaged range. Anything beyond engaged range and Bodyguard can't be used it. A group of Stormtroopers all at medium, long, or extreme range shooting at the characters and Bodyguard can't be used. It doesn't work against AOE attacks etc... it is only good against melee attacks or single target shooting attacks done in engaged range.

1st off yes ik they have to be in engaged range

2nd it doesnt matter how far the ENEMY is as long as you are engaged with your allies you can bodyguard and circle of shelter each other that would be just stupid only working on melee and point plant shots (yo take this bullet for me plz, sorry bro I can only do it if they're right in front of you; if they're further away when I have more time to react it's impossible)

3rd no where does it say it doesnt work for blast effects as its still part of the combat check (step 3 of spending adv) unless ofc a developer cleared this up somewhere

thats where improved bodyguard would come into play if for some reason you re about to take a large aoe attack one person takes ALL the damage leaving the others intact to continue fighting and maybe heal the downed character. These must be some very willful/agile NPCs to be able to do all this. As for unleash I always found that weird how it wasnt categorized as anything just "ranged attack" could be faulty writing on the developer's part. And ofc ALL these require successful checks while the PCs do not so statistically it is in their favor.

Improved Bodyguard is once per session and only allows you to take one hit for one ally (and you have to have used Bodyguard on them during their previous turn), so a nasty AoE will take out half of your phalanx. Two Soresu Guardians don't look nearly as invulnerable as four, as they have a harder time spreading out the strain from reflect/parry while still maintaining some semblance of an offense. As for them being "some very willful/agile NPCs," you're talking about a party of characters who have spent hundreds of experience points across three specialization trees. I think by that point the GM is entitled to bump up the characteristics of his NPCs a bit to keep up.

As for Unleash, you win some, you lose some. Just as grenades using Ranged (Light) for the sake of not having yet another combat skill means (technically) you can "reflect" an explosion, the decision to make offensive force powers go off of Discipline means that you can't "reflect" a shipping container dropped on your head.

thats where improved bodyguard would come into play if for some reason you re about to take a large aoe attack one person takes ALL the damage leaving the others intact to continue fighting and maybe heal the downed character. These must be some very willful/agile NPCs to be able to do all this. As for unleash I always found that weird how it wasnt categorized as anything just "ranged attack" could be faulty writing on the developer's part. And ofc ALL these require successful checks while the PCs do not so statistically it is in their favor.

Improved Bodyguard is once per session and only allows you to take one hit for one ally (and you have to have used Bodyguard on them during their previous turn), so a nasty AoE will take out half of your phalanx. Two Soresu Guardians don't look nearly as invulnerable as four, as they have a harder time spreading out the strain from reflect/parry while still maintaining some semblance of an offense. As for them being "some very willful/agile NPCs," you're talking about a party of characters who have spent hundreds of experience points across three specialization trees. I think by that point the GM is entitled to bump up the characteristics of his NPCs a bit to keep up.

As for Unleash, you win some, you lose some. Just as grenades using Ranged (Light) for the sake of not having yet another combat skill means (technically) you can "reflect" an explosion, the decision to make offensive force powers go off of Discipline means that you can't "reflect" a shipping container dropped on your head.

remember it still has to hit and it all depends on who goes 1st if the PCs can they can get closer and maybe get in a hit or 2

drop large object 2 are down now the other 2 may be able to finish him off

if not bodyguard the last one and maybe the last man standing can finish him off

Also its only 2 trees and 260 exp

Sorry, I mistyped; I was thinking of Defensive Circle and instead typed something similar to Circle of Shelter. If the Jedi strain to take two maneuvers, they go from long->medium->short, at which point the commandos can strain for two maneuvers to reopen the distance. Considering everything else your Jedi are spending strain on, they're liable to run out first.

Another Achilles heel for this group: Dark Force Users. Several Force powers completely bypass all their defenses. Bind and Harm ignore soak. Move and Unleash bypass Reflect by virtue of not requiring a Ranged (Heavy), Ranged (Light), or Gunnery check. Forget using vehicle weapons against them, with such a tightly packed group, a skilled Force user could simply drop an airspeeder or an AT-ST on top of them to ruin their day.

thats where improved bodyguard would come into play if for some reason you re about to take a large aoe attack one person takes ALL the damage leaving the others intact to continue fighting and maybe heal the downed character. These must be some very willful/agile NPCs to be able to do all this. As for unleash I always found that weird how it wasnt categorized as anything just "ranged attack" could be faulty writing on the developer's part. And ofc ALL these require successful checks while the PCs do not so statistically it is in their favor.

Bodyguard doesn't work like you think it does. It requires the ally to be engaged as in engaged range. Anything beyond engaged range and Bodyguard can't be used it. A group of Stormtroopers all at medium, long, or extreme range shooting at the characters and Bodyguard can't be used. It doesn't work against AOE attacks etc... it is only good against melee attacks or single target shooting attacks done in engaged range.

1st off yes ik they have to be in engaged range

2nd it doesnt matter how far the ENEMY is as long as you are engaged with your allies you can bodyguard and circle of shelter each other that would be just stupid only working on melee and point plant shots (yo take this bullet for me plz, sorry bro I can only do it if they're right in front of you; if they're further away when I have more time to react it's impossible)

3rd no where does it say it doesnt work for blast effects as its still part of the combat check (step 3 of spending adv) unless ofc a developer cleared this up somewhere

2. The enemy must be engaged with the ally.

Page 215 of F&D, "To reflect two or more targets who are grappling or otherwise engaged in hand-to-hand combat, there is a special range status called engaged. Two characters engaged with each other are in very close proximity. A Warrior needs to be engaged with a target to hit him with his lightsaber. When two or more characters are engaged with each other, it is called an engagement."

Also its only 2 trees and 260 exp

My mistake, I thought you were including Shien Expert for Supreme Reflect. In that case, you're even more screwed against the commando team, because you're losing at least 6 strain per heavy blaster rifle hit, which on top of Bodyguard is going to chew through your reserves pretty fast.

Also, thinking that a few Guardians with nary a single offensive talent between them are going to take a nemesis down with any kind of speed seems optimistic to me.

Just to set things straight, Body Guard is not restricted to only enemies engaged with the ally. The user of Body Guard has to be engaged with the ally, which then upgrades all combat checks targeting the ally.

Sorry, I mistyped; I was thinking of Defensive Circle and instead typed something similar to Circle of Shelter. If the Jedi strain to take two maneuvers, they go from long->medium->short, at which point the commandos can strain for two maneuvers to reopen the distance. Considering everything else your Jedi are spending strain on, they're liable to run out first.

Another Achilles heel for this group: Dark Force Users. Several Force powers completely bypass all their defenses. Bind and Harm ignore soak. Move and Unleash bypass Reflect by virtue of not requiring a Ranged (Heavy), Ranged (Light), or Gunnery check. Forget using vehicle weapons against them, with such a tightly packed group, a skilled Force user could simply drop an airspeeder or an AT-ST on top of them to ruin their day.

thats where improved bodyguard would come into play if for some reason you re about to take a large aoe attack one person takes ALL the damage leaving the others intact to continue fighting and maybe heal the downed character. These must be some very willful/agile NPCs to be able to do all this. As for unleash I always found that weird how it wasnt categorized as anything just "ranged attack" could be faulty writing on the developer's part. And ofc ALL these require successful checks while the PCs do not so statistically it is in their favor.

Bodyguard doesn't work like you think it does. It requires the ally to be engaged as in engaged range. Anything beyond engaged range and Bodyguard can't be used it. A group of Stormtroopers all at medium, long, or extreme range shooting at the characters and Bodyguard can't be used. It doesn't work against AOE attacks etc... it is only good against melee attacks or single target shooting attacks done in engaged range.

1st off yes ik they have to be in engaged range

2nd it doesnt matter how far the ENEMY is as long as you are engaged with your allies you can bodyguard and circle of shelter each other that would be just stupid only working on melee and point plant shots (yo take this bullet for me plz, sorry bro I can only do it if they're right in front of you; if they're further away when I have more time to react it's impossible)

3rd no where does it say it doesnt work for blast effects as its still part of the combat check (step 3 of spending adv) unless ofc a developer cleared this up somewhere

2. The enemy must be engaged with the ally.

Page 215 of F&D, "To reflect two or more targets who are grappling or otherwise engaged in hand-to-hand combat, there is a special range status called engaged. Two characters engaged with each other are in very close proximity. A Warrior needs to be engaged with a target to hit him with his lightsaber. When two or more characters are engaged with each other, it is called an engagement."

3. Blast doesn't target individual characters. It targets an area as such Bodyguard does not cover this since the target of the blast effect is the area around the character. The characters in the area then take damage due to them being in the area. They are not targeted by the blast, but are damaged by it.

2 Quote "the character may perform the bodyguard maneuver to protect one ally WITH WHOM HE IS ENGAGED" end quote how the hell are misinterpreting this as long as you yourself are engaged with your ally you can do it being engaged is not limited to enemy and ally

3 regardless you can still protect your original target

Also its only 2 trees and 260 exp

My mistake, I thought you were including Shien Expert for Supreme Reflect. In that case, you're even more screwed against the commando team, because you're losing at least 6 strain per heavy blaster rifle hit, which on top of Bodyguard is going to chew through your reserves pretty fast.

Also, thinking that a few Guardians with nary a single offensive talent between them are going to take a nemesis down with any kind of speed seems optimistic to me.

No I am but im excluding defender for supreme parry

Just to set things straight, Body Guard is not restricted to only enemies engaged with the ally. The user of Body Guard has to be engaged with the ally, which then upgrades all combat checks targeting the ally.

Thank you someone who can interpret words

Sorry, I mistyped; I was thinking of Defensive Circle and instead typed something similar to Circle of Shelter. If the Jedi strain to take two maneuvers, they go from long->medium->short, at which point the commandos can strain for two maneuvers to reopen the distance. Considering everything else your Jedi are spending strain on, they're liable to run out first.

Another Achilles heel for this group: Dark Force Users. Several Force powers completely bypass all their defenses. Bind and Harm ignore soak. Move and Unleash bypass Reflect by virtue of not requiring a Ranged (Heavy), Ranged (Light), or Gunnery check. Forget using vehicle weapons against them, with such a tightly packed group, a skilled Force user could simply drop an airspeeder or an AT-ST on top of them to ruin their day.

thats where improved bodyguard would come into play if for some reason you re about to take a large aoe attack one person takes ALL the damage leaving the others intact to continue fighting and maybe heal the downed character. These must be some very willful/agile NPCs to be able to do all this. As for unleash I always found that weird how it wasnt categorized as anything just "ranged attack" could be faulty writing on the developer's part. And ofc ALL these require successful checks while the PCs do not so statistically it is in their favor.

Bodyguard doesn't work like you think it does. It requires the ally to be engaged as in engaged range. Anything beyond engaged range and Bodyguard can't be used it. A group of Stormtroopers all at medium, long, or extreme range shooting at the characters and Bodyguard can't be used. It doesn't work against AOE attacks etc... it is only good against melee attacks or single target shooting attacks done in engaged range.

1st off yes ik they have to be in engaged range

2nd it doesnt matter how far the ENEMY is as long as you are engaged with your allies you can bodyguard and circle of shelter each other that would be just stupid only working on melee and point plant shots (yo take this bullet for me plz, sorry bro I can only do it if they're right in front of you; if they're further away when I have more time to react it's impossible)

3rd no where does it say it doesnt work for blast effects as its still part of the combat check (step 3 of spending adv) unless ofc a developer cleared this up somewhere

2. The enemy must be engaged with the ally.

Page 215 of F&D, "To reflect two or more targets who are grappling or otherwise engaged in hand-to-hand combat, there is a special range status called engaged. Two characters engaged with each other are in very close proximity. A Warrior needs to be engaged with a target to hit him with his lightsaber. When two or more characters are engaged with each other, it is called an engagement."

3. Blast doesn't target individual characters. It targets an area as such Bodyguard does not cover this since the target of the blast effect is the area around the character. The characters in the area then take damage due to them being in the area. They are not targeted by the blast, but are damaged by it.

2 Quote "the character may perform the bodyguard maneuver to protect one ally WITH WHOM HE IS ENGAGED" end quote how the hell are misinterpreting this as long as you yourself are engaged with your ally you can do it being engaged is not limited to enemy and ally

3 regardless you can still protect your original target

No, you can't protect your original target from blast effects. Either way, a long range enemy with autofire high damage weapons will chew the group up and spit them out. In 2 rounds tops before they're knocked unconscious.

No I am but im excluding defender for supreme parry

So you have, at most, three ranks of Parry, and probably not even that, since the Parry talents in Shien Expert are on the wrong side of the tree. I've been going about this all wrong; Magnaguards or Imperial Guards will rip you to shreds, since they parry better than you and have Stun weapons to deplete your precious strain even faster. Or send in a couple of brutes with cortosis vibro-axes. It only takes a sliver of damage getting through to trigger a crit and let that Vicious 3 do its work.

Sorry, I mistyped; I was thinking of Defensive Circle and instead typed something similar to Circle of Shelter. If the Jedi strain to take two maneuvers, they go from long->medium->short, at which point the commandos can strain for two maneuvers to reopen the distance. Considering everything else your Jedi are spending strain on, they're liable to run out first.

Another Achilles heel for this group: Dark Force Users. Several Force powers completely bypass all their defenses. Bind and Harm ignore soak. Move and Unleash bypass Reflect by virtue of not requiring a Ranged (Heavy), Ranged (Light), or Gunnery check. Forget using vehicle weapons against them, with such a tightly packed group, a skilled Force user could simply drop an airspeeder or an AT-ST on top of them to ruin their day.

thats where improved bodyguard would come into play if for some reason you re about to take a large aoe attack one person takes ALL the damage leaving the others intact to continue fighting and maybe heal the downed character. These must be some very willful/agile NPCs to be able to do all this. As for unleash I always found that weird how it wasnt categorized as anything just "ranged attack" could be faulty writing on the developer's part. And ofc ALL these require successful checks while the PCs do not so statistically it is in their favor.

Bodyguard doesn't work like you think it does. It requires the ally to be engaged as in engaged range. Anything beyond engaged range and Bodyguard can't be used it. A group of Stormtroopers all at medium, long, or extreme range shooting at the characters and Bodyguard can't be used. It doesn't work against AOE attacks etc... it is only good against melee attacks or single target shooting attacks done in engaged range.

1st off yes ik they have to be in engaged range

2nd it doesnt matter how far the ENEMY is as long as you are engaged with your allies you can bodyguard and circle of shelter each other that would be just stupid only working on melee and point plant shots (yo take this bullet for me plz, sorry bro I can only do it if they're right in front of you; if they're further away when I have more time to react it's impossible)

3rd no where does it say it doesnt work for blast effects as its still part of the combat check (step 3 of spending adv) unless ofc a developer cleared this up somewhere

2. The enemy must be engaged with the ally.

Page 215 of F&D, "To reflect two or more targets who are grappling or otherwise engaged in hand-to-hand combat, there is a special range status called engaged. Two characters engaged with each other are in very close proximity. A Warrior needs to be engaged with a target to hit him with his lightsaber. When two or more characters are engaged with each other, it is called an engagement."

3. Blast doesn't target individual characters. It targets an area as such Bodyguard does not cover this since the target of the blast effect is the area around the character. The characters in the area then take damage due to them being in the area. They are not targeted by the blast, but are damaged by it.

2 Quote "the character may perform the bodyguard maneuver to protect one ally WITH WHOM HE IS ENGAGED" end quote how the hell are misinterpreting this as long as you yourself are engaged with your ally you can do it being engaged is not limited to enemy and ally

3 regardless you can still protect your original target

No, you can't protect your original target from blast effects. Either way, a long range enemy with autofire high damage weapons will chew the group up and spit them out. In 2 rounds tops before they're knocked unconscious.

Even heavy blasters on autofire get soaked by the 4 at once reflect and basic soak on top of that

mulitple shots to one guy, each 10 dmg, 2 reflects and 2 strain, no problem

one shot to multiple ppl, see above

anyway you spread it that attacks can be reflected with minimal strain

you have to break 20 dmg + soak to even scratch them

No I am but im excluding defender for supreme parry

So you have, at most, three ranks of Parry, and probably not even that, since the Parry talents in Shien Expert are on the wrong side of the tree. I've been going about this all wrong; Magnaguards or Imperial Guards will rip you to shreds, since they parry better than you and have Stun weapons to deplete your precious strain even faster. Or send in a couple of brutes with cortosis vibro-axes. It only takes a sliver of damage getting through to trigger a crit and let that Vicious 3 do its work.

yea ik but since they're in melee they stand a much better chance especially thanks to bodyguard increasing the difficulty of each PC

I'm curious what stats you're giving this group to give them 20 soak?

I take "Body Guarding" to mean exactly what it is. You're doing everything you have to do to protect your charge. You pull him out of the line of fire, you keep him pushing his head down to minimize is silhouette, and you tackle him to the ground to keep him safe when necessary. You even go as far as to step in front of the blaster shot when you have to, perfectly emulated by Improved Body Guard. Now if you have a circle of 2, 3, 4, or whatever each declaring Body Guard on each other, I'm perfectly within my rights as a GM to say your protective measures are hampering each other, which they would under those circumstances. I would simply declare you're falling over each other, each trying to protect your charge. It'd look like a game a morons game of ring-around-the-rosie with each person pulling and shoving the guy next to him! Not only would you not get Body Guards defensive bonus, I'm liable to give your opponent a Boost die because you've given him a tangle of 4 combined bodies to sight up instead of just one. I'm completely within my rights as a GM to penalize poor play and attempts to game the mechanics.

Also, Blast weapons work perfectly fine against force users. Blast states everyone within it's AoE suffers damage. This is not a type of attack that can be stopped by Parry or Reflect. There's plenty of examples in TCW show where grenades and other explosives work perfectly well against Jedi. A lightsaber simply can't stop AoE damage.

Big deal. Rock beats scissors saber.

Per the rules you can not reflect vehicle scale weapons. One at at and you are done.

I'm curious what stats you're giving this group to give them 20 soak?

I take "Body Guarding" to mean exactly what it is. You're doing everything you have to do to protect your charge. You pull him out of the line of fire, you keep him pushing his head down to minimize is silhouette, and you tackle him to the ground to keep him safe when necessary. You even go as far as to step in front of the blaster shot when you have to, perfectly emulated by Improved Body Guard. Now if you have a circle of 2, 3, 4, or whatever each declaring Body Guard on each other, I'm perfectly within my rights as a GM to say your protective measures are hampering each other, which they would under those circumstances. I would simply declare you're falling over each other, each trying to protect your charge. It'd look like a game a morons game of ring-around-the-rosie with each person pulling and shoving the guy next to him! Not only would you not get Body Guards defensive bonus, I'm liable to give your opponent a Boost die because you've given him a tangle of 4 combined bodies to sight up instead of just one. I'm completely within my rights as a GM to penalize poor play and attempts to game the mechanics.

Also, Blast weapons work perfectly fine against force users. Blast states everyone within it's AoE suffers damage. This is not a type of attack that can be stopped by Parry or Reflect. There's plenty of examples in TCW show where grenades and other explosives work perfectly well against Jedi. A lightsaber simply can't stop AoE damage.

Why do I get visions of the Four Stooges combined with Star Wars when you described their actions?

Why do I get visions of the Four Stooges combined with Star Wars when you described their actions?

I get the same vision when I think of 4 people in a circle, all Body Guarding the guy to the left!