Are you allowed to voluntarily give up initiative? I'm assuming like most games where initiative can be bid on, you can choose to make your opponent have it, if you get it and don't want it? Thanks in advance!

"Determine Initiative", SG, Page 4:

The player who has the lowest total cost of Deployment cards chooses which player begins the game with the initiative token. In the case of a tie, players determine initiative randomly.

But if I am randomly selected by roll off or coin toss, can I then say I want you to have the initiative?

Nope. As Fizz posted the excerpt from the RRG it states to determine initiative randomly. If you dont want Initiative then play 39 points or less or play Mercs and take Devious Scheme.

Huh. That's what I was afraid of. That seems like a really dumb and ineloquent design to me. Ooh well though.

It's actually simple, and that makes it eloquent. You want initiative? Spend less points. You don't want it? Spend 40 points, and most of the time, you wont get it. If there is a tie, you have a 50/50 chance of getting it.

It's only for the first turn, so not really a big deal.

I e-mailed FFG about this a few weeks back and received a response from Paul Winchester saying that if the players are tied in squad points they roll a blue die. Whoever gets higher accuracy HAS initiative and does not get to choose or give it away.

It's not just the first turn though. It sets the rhythm for initiative for the whole game. And I don't want initiative on turn one most of the time, I want it on turn two. Easy way to get that is to win initiative decision and give it to the opponent. And then hopefully on turn three with a Take Initiative.

I say ineloquent because it doesn't allow a gamble. X-wing and Armada and most every game that offers a first turn between two sides allows the initiative winner to pass initiative. And thanks to the existence of devious scheme, which is awesome, I'm not really incentivized to spend a point on initiative when unlike mercs,I don't get a fringe benefit. I feel like I'm spending that point suboptimaly right out the gate. Just bugs me is all. Kind of like how there are at least the ways to move a figure. The lack of intuitive design irks me for as much as I love the game.

It's only for the first turn, so not really a big deal.

While you are perfectly right about the other things, going 2nd on larger maps or 1st on smaller maps is a big deal. It means you can play taking initiative during the 2nd round to get the first activation in the 2 first or 2nd and 3rd rounds of the game. This is an insane boost (if you can afford to exhaust a card)! I wouldn't brush it off so easily.

Remember that the new Pass rule can allow you to give up the first activation(s), although it would not allow to give away the initiative. If you still care, include and hope to draw your Take Initiative command card to take the initiative for the second round.

It's not just the first turn though. It sets the rhythm for initiative for the whole game. And I don't want initiative on turn one most of the time, I want it on turn two. Easy way to get that is to win initiative decision and give it to the opponent. And then hopefully on turn three with a Take Initiative.

I say ineloquent because it doesn't allow a gamble. X-wing and Armada and most every game that offers a first turn between two sides allows the initiative winner to pass initiative. And thanks to the existence of devious scheme, which is awesome, I'm not really incentivized to spend a point on initiative when unlike mercs,I don't get a fringe benefit. I feel like I'm spending that point suboptimaly right out the gate. Just bugs me is all. Kind of like how there are at least the ways to move a figure. The lack of intuitive design irks me for as much as I love the game.

You can still play Take Initiative on turn three even if you were to get the Initiative token. You start with it on turn three, they play Take Initiative and exhaust one of their cards, then you play Take Initiative exhausting one of your cards and still having it for turn three.

You can still play Take Initiative on turn three even if you were to get the Initiative token. You start with it on turn three, they play Take Initiative and exhaust one of their cards, then you play Take Initiative exhausting one of your cards and still having it for turn three.

You can't wait for the other player to play Take Initiative and play yours in response to it, because the timing window has already passed if you wait that long. You either play it at the start of the round or not.

Eh...goes to show how much I play of Skirmish

Yeah after reading a lot of discussions on the take initiative and how you can't play the card in response to the other person playing it, essentially the card should be called "keep initiative" because you can only play it if you had the initiative last round. If you are about to receive initiative you can't play it basically because by the timing window to play it you already have it. And the official ruling is that you also can't play the card in response to the other person playing the card to get the initiative back.

essentially the card should be called "keep initiative"

That cards is called "Negation".

Easy way to get that is to win initiative decision and give it to the opponent.

How do you "win" the initiative decision?

essentially the card should be called "keep initiative"

That cards is called "Negation".

Ok maybe a better word is "don't give up the initiative"

Again, at least this was the way it was explained to me at a recent tourney, only one person is even eligible to play it - the person who had the initiative last round.

So, my opponent had initiative round 2. It's now the beginning of round 3 - he's the only person who can play take initiative. Even if I have it and even if I wanted to play it pre-emptively to keep him from possibly playing it, I'm pretty sure the FFG ruling was that you can't play it if you have the initiative token and by the time you could play it the initiative token has been passed to me. And if my opponent plays it to take the initiative token, I know FFG ruled you can't play it in response. But yes, negation would be the card that would allow you to keep the initiative.

How about trying to move only one space for each of your activations if you get initiative but don't want it. There's nothing that says you can't move as little as possible... Just a thought.

Easy way to get that is to win initiative decision and give it to the opponent.

How do you "win" the initiative decision?

Most games that a player has to be determined as the one to go first, has the advantage of, you guessed it, going first. In magic going first was considered such an advantage in two player that you gave up your first card draw if you got it, and it was still the desired position a vast majority of the time.

This game, in part due to activation count, part game knowledge revelation, part range, part some other niche reasons, initiative is still good to not just have, but to be in control of who does have it. So it should rightly be fought for, which makes me want to 'win' control of who gets it. Even if to do that I have to take a gamble dice off in the beginning.

How about trying to move only one space for each of your activations if you get initiative but don't want it. There's nothing that says you can't move as little as possible... Just a thought.

It indeed is a bad one.

Everyone wants the initiative on turn 2. That's the reason why no one wants the initiative on turn 1. You don't get the Initiative on turn 2 by doing useless stuff at the start of turn 1.

Eh, the way we've always played here, NOBODY takes under 40 pts of deployment cards.

We flip a coin, and the winner decides who takes initiative.

Works perfectly. Sometimes you want to give it away, sometimes you want to keep it. Depends on the map.

Honestly, when you both have 40, whichever way you do it you still have a 50% chance of getting initiative unless you're playing against someone that doesn't understand how good it is to have initiative in round 2 (in which case, you'll probably win anyways).

So you might as well follow the official rules for deciding it.

In the current map set, there is only 1 scenario where you might even consider going first. But the advantage you get from not going first is so good that you still don't want to go first.

Easy way to get that is to win initiative decision and give it to the opponent.

How do you "win" the initiative decision?

Well, in this game you don't really 'win' initiative. It's assigned. if you wanted it, great, have a good time, if not, well, sucks to be you.

Most games that a player has to be determined as the one to go first, has the advantage of, you guessed it, going first. In magic going first was considered such an advantage in two player that you gave up your first card draw if you got it, and it was still the desired position a vast majority of the time.

This game, in part due to activation count, part game knowledge revelation, part range, part some other niche reasons, initiative is still good to not just have, but to be in control of who does have it. So it should rightly be fought for, which makes me want to 'win' control of who gets it. Even if to do that I have to take a gamble dice off in the beginning.

How about trying to move only one space for each of your activations if you get initiative but don't want it. There's nothing that says you can't move as little as possible... Just a thought.

And it's not a bad one. Realistically it's about the only thing you could do to set it back to how you want it to be. Unfortunately there are problems with the tactic. Your not really advancing your game plan while your opponent will likely grow wise to your plan after a few acts, and then take advantage of your plan by accelerating their own. And IA has alot of objective oriented game play, and that could really hurt you in the end. Besides, it would be kinda boring to just shuffle them around.

If I end up with first initiative, I go with it.

I find if you are running support characters like Gideon & C-3PO you can stall the first turn enough that you can mitigate the drawbacks of having the initiative first turn, and you have a 1 in 5 shot of being able to play take initiative as well on t2

The rules say: When both players have the same points, then you determine randomly (e.g. coin toss), who has the initiative. You DON'T determine randomly, who CHOOSES to have or not have the initiative.

By the way: The storecampionship coin is great as a coin toss coin and as an initiative token.