So, a friend and I were playing around with some future builds. I decided to use R5-P8, and this question was raised which I think we can talk and think about. I know the card is unreleased, but maybe this can be solved prior to release and set a precedent.

If a ship flying R5-P8 is destroyed, can it use R5-P8 after defending? I know that you cannot use Vader in a similar situation because you need to do 2 damage to yourself, which you can't....but R5-P8 has a possibility of doing the damage to the ship as well.

We decided to play it as I could, which ended up killing his IG; so he was mad and said that he thinks we did it wrong.

If R5-P8 has been triggered I would think that needs to be resolved.

Not sure about R5-P8, but you can use Vader even if it destroys your ship.

It says in the FAQ that you can use Vader if you have at least 1 Hull remaining.And if the ship have a Gunner and 1 or 2 Hull remaining, it could attack, use Vader, destroy the ship on which he is, then use Gunner.

Here's the FAQ about him:

Darth Vader

A ship equipped with Darth Vader can use this ability if it has at least 1 hull remaining. If a ship equipped with Darth Vader can attack twice in one round (such as a ship equipped with Gunner or Cluster Missiles), it can use Darth Vader after the first attack and after the second attack. If Darth Vader destroys the ship to which he is equipped, it can still perform its second attack. If Vader is used twice, it must be in this order: Attack, Vader, Attack, Vader.

...

As for R5-P8, since it is effective after defending, I think that you could not use R5-P8 if the attack destroys you, unless you have the same PS and have yet to attack yourself. Same as with Dengar, if he gets destroyed, he can't use his counter attack.

Vader is totally different story...Vader is used when you attack not when you are attacked so there is no similar situation. Plus you CAN use Vader when your ship is on 1HP only.

Here is not damage question more of timing question, if you have time to trigger the droid before your ship is destroyed.

My interpretation would be that yes you can use R5-P8, cause of the wording on the droid: "after defending" so turn order would be:

-Attack steps

-Roll defence die

-Modification od defence die

-USAGE OF R5-P8

-Compare the results that destroys the ship.

I would say that as it says 'after defending', it would only trigger if you were at the same PS (see Red Castle above).

If it had said 'when defending' then it would of been fine whatever happened in the attack.

I would say that as it says 'after defending', it would only trigger if you were at the same PS (see Red Castle above).

If it had said 'when defending' then it would of been fine whatever happened in the attack.

I'd say that anything that doesn't have a specific trigger happens as soon as it can possibly happen. (Add stress after check stress step when running over debris means immediately after check stress, not after the maneuver is completed).

PERFORMING AN ATTACK

1.Declare Target

2.Roll Attack Dice

3.Modify Attack Dice

4.Roll Defense Dice

5.Modify Defense Dice

6.Compare Results

7.Deal Damage

DESTROYING SHIPS

A ship is destroyed when it has a number of Damage

cards equal to its hull value or when it flees the

battlefield. When a ship is destroyed, remove it from

the play area, discard all of its Damage cards, and

return all of its tokens to the supply.

•If the Simultaneous Attack Rule delays a ship’s

destruction, it is instead destroyed after it has

had its opportunity to attack this round.

•After a ship has resolved its opportunity to

attack, before it is destroyed, it can resolve any

abilities that trigger after performing an attack

Removing a dead ship from the board happens after the attack is completed, but R5-P8 triggers as soon as the defender is done. So R5-P8 slots in between steps 6 and 7 of performing an attack and should get his ability to trigger before he is removed.

Vader is totally different story...Vader is used when you attack not when you are attacked so there is no similar situation. Plus you CAN use Vader when your ship is on 1HP only.

Here is not damage question more of timing question, if you have time to trigger the droid before your ship is destroyed.

My interpretation would be that yes you can use R5-P8, cause of the wording on the droid: "after defending" so turn order would be:

-Attack steps

-Roll defence die

-Modification od defence die

-USAGE OF R5-P8

-Compare the results that destroys the ship.

I don't think that's the case. The term, "defending" does not mean "rolling/modifying defense die". You have to complete the entire attack sequence (including dealing damage and so destroying ship) before R5-P8 triggers.

I'm going to guess it only works if both are the same PS and the opposite player had initiative, so the ship isn't removed yet.

But, this thread have me a thought. If you'd works, you could have a nasty surprise if it's combined with Dead Man's Switch. Destroy an enemy, suffer two unblockable damage yourself.

I would say that as it says 'after defending', it would only trigger if you were at the same PS (see Red Castle above).

If it had said 'when defending' then it would of been fine whatever happened in the attack.

I'd say that anything that doesn't have a specific trigger happens as soon as it can possibly happen. (Add stress after check stress step when running over debris means immediately after check stress, not after the maneuver is completed).

PERFORMING AN ATTACK

1.Declare Target

2.Roll Attack Dice

3.Modify Attack Dice

4.Roll Defense Dice

5.Modify Defense Dice

6.Compare Results

7.Deal Damage

DESTROYING SHIPS

A ship is destroyed when it has a number of Damage

cards equal to its hull value or when it flees the

battlefield. When a ship is destroyed, remove it from

the play area, discard all of its Damage cards, and

return all of its tokens to the supply.

•If the Simultaneous Attack Rule delays a ship’s

destruction, it is instead destroyed after it has

had its opportunity to attack this round.

•After a ship has resolved its opportunity to

attack, before it is destroyed, it can resolve any

abilities that trigger after performing an attack

I don't think it would be a stretch to think that we would have a rule similar to the part that I bolded for defense. Thus: after a ship has defended from an attack, before it is destroyed, it can resolve any abilities that trigger after defending from an attack. Currently I don't think we have that rule, however.

The term, "defending" does not mean "rolling/modifying defense die".

Actually in xwing term "defending" means rolling the dice and modyfing them. I suggest peeking into rules pdfs Xwing attack got a strict attack sequence and currently there is NOTHING preventing you from usage of R5-P8 beetween Modify Defence Dice and Compare Results steps. Hell dealing damage is even next step.

Find me that in rules pls. I can find you quite the opposite: rules allowing card usage during attack sequence.

The term, "defending" does not mean "rolling/modifying defense die".

Actually in xwing term "defending" means rolling the dice and modyfing them. I suggest peeking into rules pdfs Xwing attack got a strict attack sequence and currently there is NOTHING preventing you from usage of R5-P8 beetween Modify Defence Dice and Compare Results steps. Hell dealing damage is even next step.

You have to complete the entire attack sequence (including dealing damage and so destroying ship) before R5-P8 triggers.

Find me that in rules pls. I can find you quite the opposite: rules allowing card usage during attack sequence.

"After defending" is after the entire attack is resolved. There's an attacker and a defender in every attack. The attacker is "Attacking" for the whole attack, the defender is "Defending" for the whole attack. Some abilities are "when attacking" or "when defending" which would trigger during the attack itself as specified by the card, thers are "after" attacking ord efending, which happen after the entire attack is resolved. I'm in the camp that R5-P8 would not trigger if you're destroyed by an attack (except maybe in the case of simultaneous fire).

The term, "defending" does not mean "rolling/modifying defense die".

Actually in xwing term "defending" means rolling the dice and modyfing them. I suggest peeking into rules pdfs Xwing attack got a strict attack sequence and currently there is NOTHING preventing you from usage of R5-P8 beetween Modify Defence Dice and Compare Results steps. Hell dealing damage is even next step.

You have to complete the entire attack sequence (including dealing damage and so destroying ship) before R5-P8 triggers.

Find me that in rules pls. I can find you quite the opposite: rules allowing card usage during attack sequence.

"After defending" is after the entire attack is resolved. There's an attacker and a defender in every attack. The attacker is "Attacking" for the whole attack, the defender is "Defending" for the whole attack. Some abilities are "when attacking" or "when defending" which would trigger during the attack itself as specified by the card, thers are "after" attacking ord efending, which happen after the entire attack is resolved. I'm in the camp that R5-P8 would not trigger if you're destroyed by an attack (except maybe in the case of simultaneous fire).

I just studied whole glossary pdf and came up with nothing more. So currently til FAQed its up to interpretation of the words "after defending" :

-if we consider rolling a dice as an act of defending (which is viable interpretation with current ruling) R5 triggers.

-if we consider that during whole time as defender we are defending (which i can see why some guys interpret it this way, too) R5 does not trigger.

My personal opinion: we are defender whole time of attack but we are defending by rolling the dice. End of my input to this topic till FAQ cause its RAW vs RAI now:)

Being a defender can't just rely on just rolling dice, as you can have no agility a lot of the time now, but you are still the defender (and still defend yourself in other ways, such as tokens/abilities)

The term, "defending" does not mean "rolling/modifying defense die".

Actually in xwing term "defending" means rolling the dice and modyfing them. I suggest peeking into rules pdfs Xwing attack got a strict attack sequence and currently there is NOTHING preventing you from usage of R5-P8 beetween Modify Defence Dice and Compare Results steps. Hell dealing damage is even next step.

You have to complete the entire attack sequence (including dealing damage and so destroying ship) before R5-P8 triggers.

Find me that in rules pls. I can find you quite the opposite: rules allowing card usage during attack sequence.

"After defending" is after the entire attack is resolved. There's an attacker and a defender in every attack. The attacker is "Attacking" for the whole attack, the defender is "Defending" for the whole attack. Some abilities are "when attacking" or "when defending" which would trigger during the attack itself as specified by the card, thers are "after" attacking ord efending, which happen after the entire attack is resolved. I'm in the camp that R5-P8 would not trigger if you're destroyed by an attack (except maybe in the case of simultaneous fire).

I just studied whole glossary pdf and came up with nothing more. So currently til FAQed its up to interpretation of the words "after defending" :

-if we consider rolling a dice as an act of defending (which is viable interpretation with current ruling) R5 triggers.

-if we consider that during whole time as defender we are defending (which i can see why some guys interpret it this way, too) R5 does not trigger.

My personal opinion: we are defender whole time of attack but we are defending by rolling the dice. End of my input to this topic till FAQ cause its RAW vs RAI now:)

Please take a look at some other card abilities, Prince Xizor for example:

"When defending, a friendly ship at Range 1 may suffer 1 uncancelled hit or critical result instead of you"

This is a clear precedent, that dealing damage is part of defending.

just before your ship is destroyed R5-P8's automated protocols trigger ejecting him from the droid slot on the ship allowing him to lock onto the ship that destroyed his then using all his available power fire's his weapon. Now drained of power he floats away into the darkness of space

The term, "defending" does not mean "rolling/modifying defense die".

Actually in xwing term "defending" means rolling the dice and modyfing them. I suggest peeking into rules pdfs Xwing attack got a strict attack sequence and currently there is NOTHING preventing you from usage of R5-P8 beetween Modify Defence Dice and Compare Results steps. Hell dealing damage is even next step.

You have to complete the entire attack sequence (including dealing damage and so destroying ship) before R5-P8 triggers.

Find me that in rules pls. I can find you quite the opposite: rules allowing card usage during attack sequence.

"After defending" is after the entire attack is resolved. There's an attacker and a defender in every attack. The attacker is "Attacking" for the whole attack, the defender is "Defending" for the whole attack. Some abilities are "when attacking" or "when defending" which would trigger during the attack itself as specified by the card, thers are "after" attacking ord efending, which happen after the entire attack is resolved. I'm in the camp that R5-P8 would not trigger if you're destroyed by an attack (except maybe in the case of simultaneous fire).

I just studied whole glossary pdf and came up with nothing more. So currently til FAQed its up to interpretation of the words "after defending" :

-if we consider rolling a dice as an act of defending (which is viable interpretation with current ruling) R5 triggers.

-if we consider that during whole time as defender we are defending (which i can see why some guys interpret it this way, too) R5 does not trigger.

My personal opinion: we are defender whole time of attack but we are defending by rolling the dice. End of my input to this topic till FAQ cause its RAW vs RAI now:)

Please take a look at some other card abilities, Prince Xizor for example:

"When defending, a friendly ship at Range 1 may suffer 1 uncancelled hit or critical result instead of you"

This is a clear precedent, that dealing damage is part of defending.

True true, i missed that one.

The term, "defending" does not mean "rolling/modifying defense die".

Actually in xwing term "defending" means rolling the dice and modyfing them. I suggest peeking into rules pdfs Xwing attack got a strict attack sequence and currently there is NOTHING preventing you from usage of R5-P8 beetween Modify Defence Dice and Compare Results steps. Hell dealing damage is even next step.

You have to complete the entire attack sequence (including dealing damage and so destroying ship) before R5-P8 triggers.

Find me that in rules pls. I can find you quite the opposite: rules allowing card usage during attack sequence.

So what you're saying is that Xizor's ability only works against damage that he's dealt before the Modify Defense Dice step is completed?

Prince Xizor

"When defending, a friendly ship at Range 1 may suffer 1 uncanceled [HIT] or [CRIT] result instead of you."

You aren't going to find a separate list in the rules that outline the steps taken while defending because it is all part of the attack processes. The steps past Modify Defense Dice continue to refer to a defender. One ship is the attacker, one ship is the defender. Which ships those are are defined under the Attacker and Defender sections of the rules reference. The attacker is attacking and the defender is defending throughout the entire process.

@WWHSD

Look 1 post up. I missed the Xizor's precedent. It changes a lot.

@WWHSD

Look 1 post up. I missed the Xizor's precedent. It changes a lot.

I slow posted. There was 20 minutes of yelling at my kids between hitting "Reply" and "Submit Post".

@WWHSD

Look 1 post up. I missed the Xizor's precedent. It changes a lot.

I slow posted. There was 20 minutes of yelling at my kids between hitting "Reply" and "Submit Post".

Tsk, tsk, get your priorities straight!

Definitely going to need an FAQ ruling. But to handle this lets take a look at what is precedence.

We have ships like Fels Wrath but that is specifically mentioned in their pilot ability so this situation is not necessarily implicit. However as for say a similar scenario with R5 Astromech and Direct hit however on that card is specifies during the End Phase, which by then the ship has damage that meets or exceeds the hull value and is long gone.

The question is on when the timing of removing a ship and if the card triggers within the attack or after an attack.

I think the best time to trigger the droid ability is right after compare results phase. It is still during the attack so you can trigger the droid and then take the damage if rolled a crit. I don't think it would be unbalanced (Fel's Wrath is not winning any tournaments after all). and since the ability is once per round like Palpatine and R7 you can't use it multiple times per round. Also the risk of doing that last bit of damage is always something that counteracts the card and puts risk if you happen to survive the attack by 1 hull.

Still I am certain that the post wave 8 FAQ will clarify this.

FFG will FAQ this to trigger BEFORE the ship is destroyed.

They'll first say, in an email, before the ship is destroyed, than FAQ the reverse, than backtrack and eventually nobody knows.