Just curious, why do you feel the need to defend Disney so much?

I'm not defending Disney I'm pointing out where you're simply wrong. Big difference. I happen to have enjoyed TFA, I love Rebels, I enjoyed TCW and the prequels. But I have no illusions that Disney is doing anything with it that wasn't already being done.

I think we can all agree that Disney is much more monetarily focused than the people of the past who put long hard work into Star Wars.

You're delusional if you actually think that. LFL was about the almighty dollar same as they are now. I mean if you're going to try and claim that most of the drek the EU pushed out was about quality writing... Then let me know so I can ignore the rest of your posts.

I am also surprised to see you justify firing an entire studio just because they were expendable.

That's the nature of a merger like this, expendable people get cut, and they quite often go on to do bigger and better things.

I don't hate all the new stuff Disney has put out. I am enjoying the Vader comic, Rebels in moderation etc. What I hate is Disney's business model. They are all or nothing. They want their stamp on everything and can't stand to see something that wasn't made by them be successful. I would have had no problem with Rebels replacing The Clone Wars after it ended, (it was scheduled to end with season 8, which had already been written completely, and the cgi was almost finished with season 7!), but Disney refused to let it end naturally, they instantly replaced everything with their own interpretation, aimed at making money, and devoid of the heart that was poured into the EU.

I disagree with that to some point. For example in some of the more recent Rebels episodes we see appearances by

Clone Trooper Leader Rex

a fan favourite from the Clone War. Alot of what Disney seems to be doing is writing the EU stuff in a way that makes some sense and is a complete wreck of a narrative. One of my favourite episodes from rebels is the discovery the prototype B wing and holy crap did it make me feel awesome to see that ship and instantly recognise not only is it a B wing but now i know where it came from.

Basically I think Disney is taking what was good from the EU (so hopefully Mara Jade and Kyle Katarn) and fitting them into the story of Starwars in a way that makes more sense.

I am well aware of the Clone Wars characters in Rebels. Ahsoka, Rex, Wolffe, Gregor, Hondo etc. But that has nothing to do with Disney being golden-hearted. That is Dave Filoni's work, the showrunner of both TCW and Rebels. Disney likely tolerates their inclusions since they have no further plans for the characters and likely see their inclusions as their peace offering and half-hearted attempt to win over TCW viewers.

Disney likely tolerates their inclusions

I see...

I never said I hated TFA or Rebels. But I do stand by my position that TCW is greater than Rebels and TCW shouldn't have been cancelled prematurely in favor if developing a new show, and that the EU is greater than the likes of the atrocity that was Aftermath.

I don't hate Disney, I would love it if they would produce some better quality work instead of the remakes and rip-offs they are pushing. I can criticize a company and call it out without suddenly becoming a "hater".

and the EU is greater than the likes of the atrocity that was Aftermath.

Aftermath was ok at best. But it was easily as good as much if not most of the rest of the EU novels.

I can criticize a company and call it out without suddenly becoming a "hater".

When you make statements like the one above... You have jumped at warp speed into the realm of hater and no longer simply criticizing a company. And on that note, I'm done with this thread.

and the EU is greater than the likes of the atrocity that was Aftermath.

Aftermath was ok at best. But it was easily as good as much if not most of the rest of the EU novels.

Agreed Aftermath was medicore, the central sorry was completely awash with nothing of interest yet all the smaller interludes in the book were really good and added alot of backstory to the world such as Vaders Lightsaber.

If anyone wants proof that Disney doesn't give a tin whistle about fans and exists purely to milk its IPs, look no further than the death of Wolverine. They didn't have film rights to the character, so they've been writing the Xmen into the ground to build up the Marvel comics they can make the most money from. Been reading Wolverine comics for 30 years? Disney says **** you. Your friggin lucky they didn't just retcon the Xmen out of existence.

See, I'm willing to accept alternate timeline. There's Star Wars, and there's Disney's "star wars". Its the Disneyites who harp incessantly about "canon" like they carry the true word of god. We are the fans, and in the absence of the Creator, we decide the canon. You can buy an IP, but you cannot buy a fandom.

And it seems I'm not the only one to feel this way.

You mean just like the OT was a money making vehicle in which decisions were made purely upon what would sell the most toys. Or how it was more or less a direct copy of other stories?

People always criticize Lucas for being greedy... and some of his practices were certainly money oriented. However, the movies that he made were about living out his fantasies. This many IS a storyteller, and was in the business of telling stories. Sure he made money through his craft, but he set out with a story to tell. Disney did not, and it is readily apparent. Does the OT use common themes from mythology? Aboslutely, and Lucas is not shy about admitting as much. But the stories are unique, the settings were unique, the feeling was unique. I love the prequels. People dislike them because they're 'boring' or have too much 'politics.' I disagree, and like a quote from a negative TFA review I saw... "It seems like the directors and screenwriters had some sort of allergy to exposition." TFA was exploitation and phoned in. The prequels... definitely not.

TFA felt like a non-star wars Sci-fi movie to me.

No... I'm not going to feed this any more.

Bad Vanor, bad!

It's interesting to see the mixed opinions about TFA. I, along with only 4 of my friends didn't like it while the rest and my family loved it. Three of those four friends are big Star Wars fans (novels, comics, games etc.) as opposed to the others who have only watched the six movies.

My ratings for the 7 films are,

The Empire Strikes Back, Star Wars, Revenge of the Sith, Return of the Jedi, The Force Awakens, The Phantom Menace, Attack of the Clones.

If you want to include The Clone Wars film, it can be at the end. It's fine as four Clone Wars episodes, but terrible compared to the rest of the films. And this is from about the biggest Clone Wars fan.

Things to consider about the cancellation of The Clone Wars: we only get press releases for information. These are, some would say notorious, for being completely spinned for content. The Clone Wars aired on a network not owned by Disney. There is a possibility that Turner Broadcasting decided to pull the plug, as they didn't want to provide revenue for Disney. For mass audiences we get the edited and civil press release and info.

Now this is not fact, but merely a possibility. The point is most of us are not privvy to the details, and equally as many of us have a hard time seeing another beings point of view.

If anyone wants proof that Disney doesn't give a tin whistle about fans and exists purely to milk its IPs, look no further than the death of Wolverine. They didn't have film rights to the character, so they've been writing the Xmen into the ground to build up the Marvel comics they can make the most money from. Been reading Wolverine comics for 30 years? Disney says **** you. Your friggin lucky they didn't just retcon the Xmen out of existence.

See, I'm willing to accept alternate timeline. There's Star Wars, and there's Disney's "star wars". Its the Disneyites who harp incessantly about "canon" like they carry the true word of god. We are the fans, and in the absence of the Creator, we decide the canon. You can buy an IP, but you cannot buy a fandom.

And it seems I'm not the only one to feel this way.

I dunno that I buy the first bit... Wolverine has been killed a lot. And Hugh Jackman is going to look like Old Man Logan eventually, so... maybe Disney is throwing Sony a bone! And there are still so many damned X-Men comics. The notion that they're being written away has always seemed a bit conspiratorial to me because it isn't reflected in publication volume.

The Star Wars canon stuff has always been odd to me, as someone who consumed almost none of it directly aside from some of the videogames. It always seemed to be built on a house of cards, since anything that showed up on film trumped anything that was written in other media (officially anyway, for however little that matters). So I absolutely understand that the canon dump is a bitter pill to swallow since it means that it's not likely that those characters are going to have new stories written about them.

So when I personally say "that's not canon" as it pertains to discussions on this board, it's not so much that I care, it's more just using it as the official (again, insomuch as that matters) baseline for a discussion.

/ramble

This thread.

they instantly replaced everything with their own interpretation, aimed at making money, and devoid of the heart that was poured into the EU.

Not true, they let some novels be finished and let's be honest here. 50% or more of the EU was pure crap, it was at best official fanfic and little else. It had no more heart in it then the new canon does. But I do know that's hard to see sometimes with the rose colored glasses on.

The Crystal Star and Truce at Bakura... the first is awful, and the latter is mediocre fan fiction given official sanction (and bizarrely obsessed with Luke and Leia's kiss).

One the other hand there were some stories which were good. It was a mixed bag, but it was all invalidated by the prequels anyway (though I did find "Luke Skywalker and the Shadows of Mindor" an interesting halfway house, to bridge the feeling of the Jedi superpowered obsessed prequels with the feeling of the earlier more down to earth EU).

If anyone wants proof that Disney doesn't give a tin whistle about fans and exists purely to milk its IPs, look no further than the death of Wolverine. They didn't have film rights to the character, so they've been writing the Xmen into the ground to build up the Marvel comics they can make the most money from. Been reading Wolverine comics for 30 years? Disney says **** you. Your friggin lucky they didn't just retcon the Xmen out of existence.

See, I'm willing to accept alternate timeline. There's Star Wars, and there's Disney's "star wars". Its the Disneyites who harp incessantly about "canon" like they carry the true word of god. We are the fans, and in the absence of the Creator, we decide the canon. You can buy an IP, but you cannot buy a fandom.

And it seems I'm not the only one to feel this way.

And dont forget the toys and merchandising around all non Disney owned licenses (Fantastic Four, X-Men and so on). They stopped dead that stuff so they dont give revenue (and free advertise) to those license holders.

If anyone wants proof that Disney doesn't give a tin whistle about fans and exists purely to milk its IPs, look no further than the death of Wolverine. They didn't have film rights to the character, so they've been writing the Xmen into the ground to build up the Marvel comics they can make the most money from. Been reading Wolverine comics for 30 years? Disney says **** you. Your friggin lucky they didn't just retcon the Xmen out of existence.

See, I'm willing to accept alternate timeline. There's Star Wars, and there's Disney's "star wars". Its the Disneyites who harp incessantly about "canon" like they carry the true word of god. We are the fans, and in the absence of the Creator, we decide the canon. You can buy an IP, but you cannot buy a fandom.

And it seems I'm not the only one to feel this way.

And dont forget the toys and merchandising around all non Disney owned licenses (Fantastic Four, X-Men and so on). They stopped dead that stuff so they dont give revenue (and free advertise) to those license holders.

The idea that not spending time and resources to do advertising for a competitor's product somehow makes a company evil incarnate seems extremely amusing to me.

I guess that means Burger King = Satan, since they advertise their own burgers and fries, they don't advertise McDonalds burgers or KFC fries...

And dont forget the toys and merchandising around all non Disney owned licenses (Fantastic Four, X-Men and so on). They stopped dead that stuff so they dont give revenue (and free advertise) to those license holders.

Yeah that wasn't cool, though Disney didn't come out right and tell them to stop making the stuff. It is Disney's IP though so they are going to do what they want with it. They are also a business and they are there to make money. So you get the blurred line of doing something for the love of it and doing it to make a profit.

As for the next wave I am okay waiting a bit till Fantasy flight gets solid footing again. Having the wave 4 stuff come out after the wave 5 stuff was kind of a bummer. Though I do hope they have some Bespin stuff and a maybe Lando popping in.

Also as much as I like the idea of running with the noted heroes of the star wars universe the players are just but a small group of rebels doing things in the background. Like the bothans getting the death star blue prints. I don't need the limelight, just here to do a job.

*sigh* Gotta love Star Wars fans, they sure hate their Star Wars.

I'm not sure what you mean by this. It sounds like you're judging what people should and shouldn't like, or should and shouldn't consider part of Star Wars.

It sounds like you're judging what people should and shouldn't like, or should and shouldn't consider part of Star Wars.

It's not like he's the first one to say it. I mean it sometimes seems like the thing Star Wars fans (or fans of some other IP's) do the most is complain about Star Wars or that other IP). If you see someone do nothing but complaining about a given thing, it's not huge leap to think they're not a fan of that thing.

It sounds like you're judging what people should and shouldn't like, or should and shouldn't consider part of Star Wars.

It's not like he's the first one to say it. I mean it sometimes seems like the thing Star Wars fans (or fans of some other IP's) do the most is complain about Star Wars or that other IP). If you see someone do nothing but complaining about a given thing, it's not huge leap to think they're not a fan of that thing.

Exactly. There is a solid number of us that are decidedly *not Disney fans.

It sounds like you're judging what people should and shouldn't like, or should and shouldn't consider part of Star Wars.

It's not like he's the first one to say it. I mean it sometimes seems like the thing Star Wars fans (or fans of some other IP's) do the most is complain about Star Wars or that other IP). If you see someone do nothing but complaining about a given thing, it's not huge leap to think they're not a fan of that thing.

It can be when the thing in question is amorphous and open to interpretation.

I can criticize a company and call it out without suddenly becoming a "hater".

When you make statements like the one above... You have jumped at warp speed into the realm of hater and no longer simply criticizing a company. And on that note, I'm done with this thread.

It sounds like you're judging what people should and shouldn't like, or should and shouldn't consider part of Star Wars.

It's not like he's the first one to say it. I mean it sometimes seems like the thing Star Wars fans (or fans of some other IP's) do the most is complain about Star Wars or that other IP). If you see someone do nothing but complaining about a given thing, it's not huge leap to think they're not a fan of that thing.

I thought you were done with this thread?