• After a valid weapon and target are chosen and any indicated costs are paid, the target is considered to be the defender.

This was changed from the original rulebook, in which you were considered the defender as soon as you were picked as a target. It prevents Dark Curse from telling people that no, you can't fire your Blaster Turret at him because he is not considered the defender until after the cost for firing the weapon is paid.

But does that not also mean that the R4 Agromech does nothing if you fire a Blaster Turret (or Deadeye missile/torpedo), as there is no defender at the time you spend the Focus token? The two situations appear to be mutually exclusive...

I think you are over thinking it.

Where on R4 Agromech does it mention a defender?

Paying the cost of an attack is part of the attack.

R4 Agromech: "When attacking, after you spend a focus token, you may acquire a target lock on the defender."

Who, according to the rules reference, doesn't yet exist at the time you spend the token?

Haha. Talk about not reading the card. I only read the trigger. That's what I get for trying to be a smart ass.

The defender becomes the defender when you spend the focus which is also the trigger for R4. One way to look at this would be that you have two effects that trigger at the same time; "designating a defender" and R4. Like any two simultaneous effects the controlling player chooses the order in which they occur. On the other hand, paying the cost of the attack could be inseperable from designating the defender, as soon as the token is spent you've got a defender.

Either of those could be the way that it works but at this point it is academic. Dark Curse is different than R4 because he only stops the token from being spent if he's the defender before it is spent. He doesn't become the defender until after the token is spent. All of R4 happens after the token has already been spent. Until there is something that interrupts between paying a cost and the defender being designated, this is a layer of granularity that is irrelevant.

Possibly I'm just thinking about this one too hard, but recent discussion on the JumpMaster made me take a look at this for what seems to be the first time since the TFA Core landed...

The new TFA rules reference says, under "Attack" on page 4:

• After a valid weapon and target are chosen and any indicated costs are paid, the target is considered to be the defender.

Actually, this almost contradicts the passage above it (that is, if you're looking for a sequence of timing)

Declare Target: The attacker may measure range to any number of enemy ships and check which enemy ships are inside his firing arc. Then the attacker chooses one of his weapons to attack with. Then he chooses one enemy ship to be the target and pays any costs required for the attack.

So there's three options:

1. The first part of the rule where the defender is designated before the token is spent.
2. The last bullet item where the token is spent before the target is designated.
3. It doesn't really matter that much as it all happens at the same time in the same step, and you're probably thinking about too hard.

Personally, I'm going with number 3.

I think the word "after" comes into play here.

After you spend a focus token for blaster turret, the target becomes the defender.

Since you get to choose when your upgrade abilities resolve, R4 can kick in after the point where the defender is defined.

Target locks acquired using R4 Agromech’s ability may be used during that attack.

If a ship equipped with R4 Agromech is attacking with a secondary weapon that requires the ship to spend a focus token (such as a Blaster Turret), that ship may acquire a target lock on the defender and spend it during that attack.

FAQ p 14

Target locks acquired using R4 Agromech’s ability may be used during that attack.

If a ship equipped with R4 Agromech is attacking with a secondary weapon that requires the ship to spend a focus token (such as a Blaster Turret), that ship may acquire a target lock on the defender and spend it during that attack.

FAQ p 14

That FAQ entry was from before the rule change. I suspect the DR4CO was questioning whether or not that was still the correct answer.

Of course, I could be totally wrong. It wouldn't be the first time in this thread that I was.

The defender becomes the defender when you spend the focus which is also the trigger for R4. One way to look at this would be that you have two effects that trigger at the same time; "designating a defender" and R4. Like any two simultaneous effects the controlling player chooses the order in which they occur.

This is exactly how I'm thinking about the issue. You have two effects that occur after you spend the focus token: the target of the attack becomes the defender, and you can acquire a target lock on the defender. You could resolve R4 first, in which case there's no defender yet and you (probably?) lose the opportunity. But there's no reason to do that, because if you resolve it the other way it works just fine.

So as long as we assume a player won't elect to shoot him/herself in the foot when resolving Blaster Turret + R4 Agromech, it works.

Actually, this almost contradicts the passage above it (that is, if you're looking for a sequence of timing)

Declare Target: The attacker may measure range to any number of enemy ships and check which enemy ships are inside his firing arc. Then the attacker chooses one of his weapons to attack with. Then he chooses one enemy ship to be the target and pays any costs required for the attack.

So there's three options:

• The first part of the rule where the defender is designated before the token is spent.
• The last bullet item where the token is spent before the target is designated.
• It doesn't really matter that much as it all happens at the same time in the same step, and you're probably thinking about too hard.

Personally, I'm going with number 3.

There's no contradiction--the passage you quote is defining "defender" (the old rules did this too, but in a way that led to an awkward logical loop). There's a moment after choosing an enemy ship where that ship hasn't yet been tagged as the "defender", but that moment has to be there in order for secondary weapons to work properly.

Target locks acquired using R4 Agromech’s ability may be used during that attack.

If a ship equipped with R4 Agromech is attacking with a secondary weapon that requires the ship to spend a focus token (such as a Blaster Turret), that ship may acquire a target lock on the defender and spend it during that attack.

FAQ p 14

That FAQ entry was from before the rule change. I suspect the DR4CO was questioning whether or not that was still the correct answer.

Of course, I could be totally wrong. It wouldn't be the first time in this thread that I was.

Well the FAQ was released 3 months after the TFA rules, so they had ample time to update it if it was no longer valid.

Target locks acquired using R4 Agromech’s ability may be used during that attack.

If a ship equipped with R4 Agromech is attacking with a secondary weapon that requires the ship to spend a focus token (such as a Blaster Turret), that ship may acquire a target lock on the defender and spend it during that attack.

FAQ p 14

That FAQ entry was from before the rule change. I suspect the DR4CO was questioning whether or not that was still the correct answer.

Of course, I could be totally wrong. It wouldn't be the first time in this thread that I was.

Well the FAQ was released 3 months after the TFA rules, so they had ample time to update it if it was no longer valid.

Unless no one has caught it. This wouldn't be the first time that someone found something that was missed in the FAQ. Of course, I'm guessing at DR4CO's motives for posting this.

Unless no one has caught it. This wouldn't be the first time that someone found something that was missed in the FAQ. Of course, I'm guessing at DR4CO's motives for posting this.

That's what inspired the question, yes, and honestly I expected to be proven wrong.l (which I'm satisfied has happened). I just wanted to know why I was wrong. :-)

Unless no one has caught it. This wouldn't be the first time that someone found something that was missed in the FAQ. Of course, I'm guessing at DR4CO's motives for posting this.

That's what inspired the question, yes, and honestly I expected to be proven wrong.l (which I'm satisfied has happened). I just wanted to know why I was wrong. :-)

Don't get married. You'll be wrong all the time and never know why.

Unless no one has caught it. This wouldn't be the first time that someone found something that was missed in the FAQ. Of course, I'm guessing at DR4CO's motives for posting this.

That's what inspired the question, yes, and honestly I expected to be proven wrong.l (which I'm satisfied has happened). I just wanted to know why I was wrong. :-)

Don't get married. You'll be wrong all the time and never know why.

Even when you're 100% right, you're still wrong.

I am pretty sure his came up when the TFA ruleset came out, mainly because the rule reversed the previous rule about not being able to use a blaster turret/procket on Dark Curse (this was achieved by making sure that a ship was not considered a defender until after costs were paid). However in correcting that "mistake" it actually made R4 agromech useless for it's semi-intended purpose, i.e. giving Scum a way to use Blaster turret more effectively. Under the rules (excepting the FAQ entry) you would not get a TL by spending the focus to activate the blaster because there is no "defender" until after costs are paid.

So what were clarifications previously in the FAQ actually became errata. Due to the conflicting usages, they had to go with preventing one of the two effects (Dark Curse getting shot by Blasters, or R4 working as "intended". Since R4 would have been all but junked by that ruling they opted to let Dark Curse stay immune to Blasters/Prockets to preserve the intended effect of R4.

I do believe this was a case of doing the least disruptive thing when stuck in a bind between the Dark Curse and R4 agromech. I think the R4 thing was an unintended consequence of trying to avoid the weirdness of Dark Curse's immunity to Blasters, but in doing so they actually broke R4 and needed to keep those entries in the FAQ even though they strictly do not follow the current rules.

For reference the important text is this:

To be clear without the FAQ entries Dark Curse would not be immune to blasters/prockets, and R4 would not give you a TL when you spend a focus for Blaster Turret (as there is no defender at that point because paying the cost must occur first before a defender exists). Currently due to the FAQ entries they work in the opposite way only because the FAQ says so. I am pretty sure it is an example of doing the least disruptive outcome when presented with conflicting rules which thankfully doesn't happen often.

@ID X T: I'd suggest you read through the thread. R4 Agromech is not broken under the current rules.