If you're worried about Soontir, any number of the 33point, Plasma Torpedo U-Boats can also swap out their extra munitions for Flechette Torpedos. It's the same number of ordinance, although the second ordinance shot is 1 red die less, but it really hampers those pesky PTL users. You get all the benefit of Plasma Torp alpha strikes with the control of large ship Flechette arcs. Hubba, hubba.

If one ship gets Soontir in arc (even without being blocked) as I mentioned above, there's 3/4 chance that he's going to need 4 evades to keep from taking damage. This list probably won't have trouble hemming him in, though, and blowing him to bits once the block does happen.

Or 3 symbols and an evade token? Or two symbols, an evade token and a Palpatine? Or one symbol, Palpatine, his evade token, and autothrusters because you fired your missiles at R3? Soontir can dodge a lot of absurd junk, is all I'm saying. Making him avoid one of your big arcs like the plague at the cost of 1 red die per game seems legit to me. With the remaining point, you can also drop 4-L0M on one of these bad boys, so now you've got two ships with a higher chance of acing him, since the guy with 4-L0M can restrict the focus or evade token.

Again, all this really costs you is one red die per game. I just like having multiple arcs that terrify Soontir, but that's me. I mean, blocking is great, but why have a plan when you can have a plan, with a great backup plan, with another pretty good backup plan? Get the job done.

only problem with ditching r4 is that r4 continues to buff the jumpy after the munitions are spent. 2 dice are kinda crap, but fully modified it may actually do some work

Absolutely it will. R4 is one of the better upgrades in the game (and probably a reason the Kirhaxz didn't have a droid slot) but putting it on the Jumpmaster will be fantastic, especially with munitions but with or without the title as well. I mean, it's better than accuracy corrector (for cost) on this ship if you start getting R1 shots.

2 dice are kinda crap, but fully modified it may actually do some work

I like to think of them as 3 dice with a chance to block, instead. These boys are getting up in there, later on. R1 don't hurt if you're behind 'em!

As much as I like Deadeye for the targeting freedom, I've been looking at Mindlink in combination for swapping one of the Scouts to Manaroo:

http://geordanr.github.io/xwing/?f=Scum%20and%20Villainy&d=v4!s!174:176,58,1,-1,121,-1:-1:25:;174:176,58,136,-1,121,-1:-1:25:;173:176,136,-1,-1,121,-1:-1:25:&sn=Crimson%20Typhoon

Can also run with EM over Flechettes, I just wanted a control element.

The Mindlink+Manaroo+R4 combo makes it not really care about potential stress, even the R3-A2/Tactician downside of spread stress gets countered as soon as 1 ship takes a green since R4 guarantees focus>targetlock anyway. This also gives BR a higher duty cycle for blocking and shot setup.

Or 3 symbols and an evade token? Or two symbols, an evade token and a Palpatine? Or one symbol, Palpatine, his evade token, and autothrusters because you fired your missiles at R3?

Those are all 4 evade results I understand the point. I'm just saying that I don't think he's a threat to the list either way.

The alpha strike on this list is insane, the fact that the generic is PS3 is just icing on the cake. You can easily wipe 1 or 2 PS2 generics off the board before they shoot, maybe even 3 ties. A stresshog won't even get a chance to shoot. You should generally get 4 hits with the Plasmas and I would be surprised if you didn't get 4 with the Protons.

Deadeye + R4 + Chimps is the ultimate hassle free ordnance combo. You just focus and that's it. You don't telegraph your target, you don't even need to pick one until combat.

PS 3 also protects you from predator a bit more, but I assume that the stresshog would move to PS4 if it's an effective way to counter this kind of list. I'm not sure it is, since it can quickly go down in flames after it gets its shot off.

The alpha strike on this list is insane, the fact that the generic is PS3 is just icing on the cake. You can easily wipe 1 or 2 PS2 generics off the board before they shoot, maybe even 3 ties. A stresshog won't even get a chance to shoot. You should generally get 4 hits with the Plasmas and I would be surprised if you didn't get 4 with the Protons.

Deadeye + R4 + Chimps is the ultimate hassle free ordnance combo. You just focus and that's it. You don't telegraph your target, you don't even need to pick one until combat.

PS 3 also protects you from predator a bit more, but I assume that the stresshog would move to PS4 if it's an effective way to counter this kind of list. I'm not sure it is, since it can quickly go down in flames after it gets its shot off.

It is a threat to the list, but it's also vulnerable. A PS4 hog is basically getting one salvo in, doing some damage and shutting down a ship's offense for a couple turns, and then it's dead. I think stress does hurt these ships more than most, because arcs and actions matter a lot, but they're tough enough and hit hard enough that one ship spent clearing stress is probably not a backbreaker. Maybe it's enough of an opening to exploit, but I don't know.

I've been thinking the 4x Gamma Squadron Veteran list with Deadeye, Guidance Chips, and a mix of missiles and torpedoes was going to be the ultimate alpha strike list that Wave 8 could offer. This one gives it a real run for its money, though. Trip JM5Ks have more hit points (and more of their hit points in shields), warheads that are even more accurate, and primary weapons that are on a swivel. The only things the TIE Bombers have going for them are their small bases and PS 5. Those aren't inconsiderable advantages, but I think the Jumpmasters are a much stronger overall list.

I completely forgot that Gamma Vets have EPTs...Bombers already have a solution for accurate torps:

JONUS + Deadeye + Proton Torp + GC

Gamma Vet + Deadeye + Plasma + EM + GC

Gamma Vet + Deadeye + Plasma + EM + GC

Gamma Vet + Deadeye + Plasma + GC

100pts

I need to go and try this squad out ASAP. Looks equally deadly.

A quick note on squad cost for the Jump:

The generic Contracted Scout weighs in at 25 points for skill 3. This is on par with the T-70 and TIE Phantom, slightly between the K-Wing and the Starviper.

It's obviously a different type of ship than any of these- perhaps similar to a cross between the T-70 and the K-Wing- but what can we learn from the squad cost? I have no idea.

A quick note on squad cost for the Jump:

The generic Contracted Scout weighs in at 25 points for skill 3. This is on par with the T-70 and TIE Phantom, slightly between the K-Wing and the Starviper.

It's obviously a different type of ship than any of these- perhaps similar to a cross between the T-70 and the K-Wing- but what can we learn from the squad cost? I have no idea.

What we definitely learn is that that FFG has realized something about YT-1300 and YT2400 generics: They were overcosted. I mean compare this guy to the poor ORS, it's not even a competition.

I kinda like... for a Slippery, Tanky JM5K:

Tel Trevura 30

Determination 1

Navigator 3

Unhinged Astromech 1

Hull Upgrade 3

Ship Total: 38

A quick note on squad cost for the Jump:

The generic Contracted Scout weighs in at 25 points for skill 3. This is on par with the T-70 and TIE Phantom, slightly between the K-Wing and the Starviper.

It's obviously a different type of ship than any of these- perhaps similar to a cross between the T-70 and the K-Wing- but what can we learn from the squad cost? I have no idea.

What we definitely learn is that that FFG has realized something about YT-1300 and YT2400 generics: They were overcosted. I mean compare this guy to the poor ORS, it's not even a competition.

I feel like it's incredibly cost effective. When you compare it to almost any ship in its price range with two attacks, it's coming out way ahead (Punisher, K-Wing, Tie Advanced) and that's even before considering it has a turret and some very good upgrade slots.

I kinda like... for a Slippery, Tanky JM5K:

Tel Trevura 30

Determination 1

Navigator 3

Unhinged Astromech 1

Hull Upgrade 3

Ship Total: 38

That's 38 points for a 2-attack turret with minimal attack mods. I think you'd at least need to spend the extra 12 points for the title, or replace the Unhinged with R5-P8.

I'm excited to try this annoying-as-heck Tel Trevura build.

If you shoot him, he shoots back. If you ignore him, he'll Gonk forever and take free 3-attack shots.

A quick note on squad cost for the Jump:

The generic Contracted Scout weighs in at 25 points for skill 3. This is on par with the T-70 and TIE Phantom, slightly between the K-Wing and the Starviper.

It's obviously a different type of ship than any of these- perhaps similar to a cross between the T-70 and the K-Wing- but what can we learn from the squad cost? I have no idea.

What we definitely learn is that that FFG has realized something about YT-1300 and YT2400 generics: They were overcosted. I mean compare this guy to the poor ORS, it's not even a competition.

I feel like it's incredibly cost effective. When you compare it to almost any ship in its price range with two attacks, it's coming out way ahead (Punisher, K-Wing, Tie Advanced) and that's even before considering it has a turret and some very good upgrade slots.

Yeah well different roles i suppose. The comparison to the K-Wing is especially rough. Atleast Kwing can get TLT. Also large base gives a bit of a discount.

A quick note on squad cost for the Jump:

The generic Contracted Scout weighs in at 25 points for skill 3. This is on par with the T-70 and TIE Phantom, slightly between the K-Wing and the Starviper.

It's obviously a different type of ship than any of these- perhaps similar to a cross between the T-70 and the K-Wing- but what can we learn from the squad cost? I have no idea.

What we definitely learn is that that FFG has realized something about YT-1300 and YT2400 generics: They were overcosted. I mean compare this guy to the poor ORS, it's not even a competition.

I feel like it's incredibly cost effective. When you compare it to almost any ship in its price range with two attacks, it's coming out way ahead (Punisher, K-Wing, Tie Advanced) and that's even before considering it has a turret and some very good upgrade slots.

Yeah well different roles i suppose. The comparison to the K-Wing is especially rough. Atleast Kwing can get TLT. Also large base gives a bit of a discount.

Yes, the only advantage a K-wing has is it can carry TLT (which speaks more to that upgrade). The Contract Scout is a much better missile boat than the TIE Punisher and is simply better than the Tie Advanced. I don't know why larger base size should give a discount, there are advantages and disadvantages.

A quick note on squad cost for the Jump:

The generic Contracted Scout weighs in at 25 points for skill 3. This is on par with the T-70 and TIE Phantom, slightly between the K-Wing and the Starviper.

It's obviously a different type of ship than any of these- perhaps similar to a cross between the T-70 and the K-Wing- but what can we learn from the squad cost? I have no idea.

What we definitely learn is that that FFG has realized something about YT-1300 and YT2400 generics: They were overcosted. I mean compare this guy to the poor ORS, it's not even a competition.

I feel like it's incredibly cost effective. When you compare it to almost any ship in its price range with two attacks, it's coming out way ahead (Punisher, K-Wing, Tie Advanced) and that's even before considering it has a turret and some very good upgrade slots.

Yeah well different roles i suppose. The comparison to the K-Wing is especially rough. Atleast Kwing can get TLT. Also large base gives a bit of a discount.

Yes, the only advantage a K-wing has is it can carry TLT (which speaks more to that upgrade). The Contract Scout is a much better missile boat than the TIE Punisher and is simply better than the Tie Advanced. I don't know why larger base size should give a discount, there are advantages and disadvantages.

I'm not going to argue that both have advantages/disadvantages, it just that it seems FFG is giving some sort of discount to large base ships.Or am i wrong here?

A quick note on squad cost for the Jump:

The generic Contracted Scout weighs in at 25 points for skill 3. This is on par with the T-70 and TIE Phantom, slightly between the K-Wing and the Starviper.

It's obviously a different type of ship than any of these- perhaps similar to a cross between the T-70 and the K-Wing- but what can we learn from the squad cost? I have no idea.

What we definitely learn is that that FFG has realized something about YT-1300 and YT2400 generics: They were overcosted. I mean compare this guy to the poor ORS, it's not even a competition.

I feel like it's incredibly cost effective. When you compare it to almost any ship in its price range with two attacks, it's coming out way ahead (Punisher, K-Wing, Tie Advanced) and that's even before considering it has a turret and some very good upgrade slots.

Yeah well different roles i suppose. The comparison to the K-Wing is especially rough. Atleast Kwing can get TLT. Also large base gives a bit of a discount.

Yes, the only advantage a K-wing has is it can carry TLT (which speaks more to that upgrade). The Contract Scout is a much better missile boat than the TIE Punisher and is simply better than the Tie Advanced. I don't know why larger base size should give a discount, there are advantages and disadvantages.

I'm not going to argue that both have advantages/disadvantages, it just that it seems FFG is giving some sort of discount to large base ships.Or am i wrong here?

Traditionally, large base ships (especially with turrets) have been incredibly inefficient but make better use of upgrades and combinations of upgrades. I don't see the pattern where they get some kind of discount. Those that aren't inefficient compared to smaller ships with similar stats have pretty terrible dials (shuttle, YV).

I kinda like... for a Slippery, Tanky JM5K:

Tel Trevura 30

Determination 1

Navigator 3

Unhinged Astromech 1

Hull Upgrade 3

Ship Total: 38

That's 38 points for a 2-attack turret with minimal attack mods. I think you'd at least need to spend the extra 12 points for the title, or replace the Unhinged with R5-P8.

I'm excited to try this annoying-as-heck Tel Trevura build.

Tel Trevura (30)

Determination (1)

"Gonk" (2)

R5-P8 (3)

Hull Upgrade (3)

Punishing One (12)

Total: 51

If you shoot him, he shoots back. If you ignore him, he'll Gonk forever and take free 3-attack shots.

I'd take that 38 point ship versus any other (single) 38-point ship you can muster. 1 on 1, and see how it do.

I kinda like... for a Slippery, Tanky JM5K:

Tel Trevura 30

Determination 1

Navigator 3

Unhinged Astromech 1

Hull Upgrade 3

Ship Total: 38

That's 38 points for a 2-attack turret with minimal attack mods. I think you'd at least need to spend the extra 12 points for the title, or replace the Unhinged with R5-P8.

I'm excited to try this annoying-as-heck Tel Trevura build.

Tel Trevura (30)

Determination (1)

"Gonk" (2)

R5-P8 (3)

Hull Upgrade (3)

Punishing One (12)

Total: 51

If you shoot him, he shoots back. If you ignore him, he'll Gonk forever and take free 3-attack shots.

I'd take that 38 point ship versus any other (single) 38-point ship you can muster. 1 on 1, and see how it do.

Miranda, Poe, Red Ace, Soontir, Vader, Inquisitor or even Omega Leader eat him for breakfast?

If I were to take Tel, I would consider:

Tel + Determination + salvaged + Dengar + title + Hull

"build your own Chewie"

IG-88C, Autothrusters.

I kinda like... for a Slippery, Tanky JM5K:

Tel Trevura 30

Determination 1

Navigator 3

Unhinged Astromech 1

Hull Upgrade 3

Ship Total: 38

That's 38 points for a 2-attack turret with minimal attack mods. I think you'd at least need to spend the extra 12 points for the title, or replace the Unhinged with R5-P8.

I'm excited to try this annoying-as-heck Tel Trevura build.

Tel Trevura (30)

Determination (1)

"Gonk" (2)

R5-P8 (3)

Hull Upgrade (3)

Punishing One (12)

Total: 51

If you shoot him, he shoots back. If you ignore him, he'll Gonk forever and take free 3-attack shots.

I'd take that 38 point ship versus any other (single) 38-point ship you can muster. 1 on 1, and see how it do.

Miranda, Poe, Red Ace, Soontir, Vader, Inquisitor or even Omega Leader eat him for breakfast?

If I were to take Tel, I would consider:

Tel + Determination + salvaged + Dengar + title + Hull

"build your own Chewie"

Again, I'm interested in learning matchups... not math-wing.

I kinda like... for a Slippery, Tanky JM5K:

Tel Trevura 30

Determination 1

Navigator 3

Unhinged Astromech 1

Hull Upgrade 3

Ship Total: 38

That's 38 points for a 2-attack turret with minimal attack mods. I think you'd at least need to spend the extra 12 points for the title, or replace the Unhinged with R5-P8.

I'm excited to try this annoying-as-heck Tel Trevura build.

Tel Trevura (30)

Determination (1)

"Gonk" (2)

R5-P8 (3)

Hull Upgrade (3)

Punishing One (12)

Total: 51

If you shoot him, he shoots back. If you ignore him, he'll Gonk forever and take free 3-attack shots.

I'd take that 38 point ship versus any other (single) 38-point ship you can muster. 1 on 1, and see how it do.

Miranda, Poe, Red Ace, Soontir, Vader, Inquisitor or even Omega Leader eat him for breakfast?

If I were to take Tel, I would consider:

Tel + Determination + salvaged + Dengar + title + Hull

"build your own Chewie"

Soontir, omega leader and the inquisitor probably kill themselves on R5-P8 before they can kill tel, regardless of whether he ever actually hits them back. Miranda, poe, red ace, and vader are going to have the same issue with r5-p8 in addition to taking more damage from tel shoting at them as well.

The model is just plain wrong.. FFG pull yourself together!

Proof here:

The alpha strike on this list is insane, the fact that the generic is PS3 is just icing on the cake. You can easily wipe 1 or 2 PS2 generics off the board before they shoot, maybe even 3 ties. A stresshog won't even get a chance to shoot. You should generally get 4 hits with the Plasmas and I would be surprised if you didn't get 4 with the Protons.

Deadeye + R4 + Chimps is the ultimate hassle free ordnance combo. You just focus and that's it. You don't telegraph your target, you don't even need to pick one until combat.

Yeah, I play 4 Tie Bombers w/ Homing Missiles and I know about the Alpha Strike. It can dismay your opponent who isn't ready for it in the first exchange.

Playing PS 2 Bombers before LRS means I know all about trying to get the TL and signalling who you will fire at. Deadeye is fantastic for that.

Another option is to just run:

Scout + Deadeye + Proton Torps + EM + Chimps

32pts

Naked Protons with Chimps have a 90% at getting 3 or more hits and 60% at getting 4 hits in.

Ahh....I was hoping someone would run the numbers for me. Yes, that is exceptionally good. I need to play around with some numbers for different ordnance for my Bombers.

I've been thinking the 4x Gamma Squadron Veteran list with Deadeye, Guidance Chips, and a mix of missiles and torpedoes was going to be the ultimate alpha strike list that Wave 8 could offer.

Yes.....I'll have to do some thinking, as well. I like this. Oh, you can't get EM on this build. Hmmm.....that's rough.

I completely forgot that Gamma Vets have EPTs...Bombers already have a solution for accurate torps:

JONUS + Deadeye + Proton Torp + GC

Gamma Vet + Deadeye + Plasma + EM + GC

Gamma Vet + Deadeye + Plasma + EM + GC

Gamma Vet + Deadeye + Plasma + GC

100pts

I need to go and try this squad out ASAP. Looks equally deadly.

I would like to hear how Jonus does for you. I found him to be a weak spot in my list before. He was the one focused down first.

What about:

JONUS + Tie Shuttle + Fleet Officer

Gamma Vet + Deadeye + Plasma + EM + GC

Gamma Vet + Deadeye + Plasma + EM + GC

Gamma Vet + Deadeye + Plasma + EM + GC

100pts

Maybe takes the heat of Jonus a bit? Or maybe pours it on, but he should last a bit?

What are the numbers for Plasma Torp w/ GC?

The alpha strike on this list is insane, the fact that the generic is PS3 is just icing on the cake. You can easily wipe 1 or 2 PS2 generics off the board before they shoot, maybe even 3 ties. A stresshog won't even get a chance to shoot. You should generally get 4 hits with the Plasmas and I would be surprised if you didn't get 4 with the Protons.

Deadeye + R4 + Chimps is the ultimate hassle free ordnance combo. You just focus and that's it. You don't telegraph your target, you don't even need to pick one until combat.

Yeah, I play 4 Tie Bombers w/ Homing Missiles and I know about the Alpha Strike. It can dismay your opponent who isn't ready for it in the first exchange.

Playing PS 2 Bombers before LRS means I know all about trying to get the TL and signalling who you will fire at. Deadeye is fantastic for that.

Another option is to just run:

Scout + Deadeye + Proton Torps + EM + Chimps

32pts

Naked Protons with Chimps have a 90% at getting 3 or more hits and 60% at getting 4 hits in.

Ahh....I was hoping someone would run the numbers for me. Yes, that is exceptionally good. I need to play around with some numbers for different ordnance for my Bombers.

I've been thinking the 4x Gamma Squadron Veteran list with Deadeye, Guidance Chips, and a mix of missiles and torpedoes was going to be the ultimate alpha strike list that Wave 8 could offer.

Yes.....I'll have to do some thinking, as well. I like this. Oh, you can't get EM on this build. Hmmm.....that's rough.

I completely forgot that Gamma Vets have EPTs...Bombers already have a solution for accurate torps:

JONUS + Deadeye + Proton Torp + GC

Gamma Vet + Deadeye + Plasma + EM + GC

Gamma Vet + Deadeye + Plasma + EM + GC

Gamma Vet + Deadeye + Plasma + GC

100pts

I need to go and try this squad out ASAP. Looks equally deadly.

I would like to hear how Jonus does for you. I found him to be a weak spot in my list before. He was the one focused down first.

What about:

JONUS + Tie Shuttle + Fleet Officer

Gamma Vet + Deadeye + Plasma + EM + GC

Gamma Vet + Deadeye + Plasma + EM + GC

Gamma Vet + Deadeye + Plasma + EM + GC

100pts

Maybe takes the heat of Jonus a bit? Or maybe pours it on, but he should last a bit?

What are the numbers for Plasma Torp w/ GC?

Here are the numbers:

Plasma + GC:

3+ Hits is 69%

4 Hits is 31%

Average is 3 hits

So it is not amazing. Which is why you need Jonus to help out or run Proton Torps.

Plasma + Jonus + GC:

3+ Hits is 89%

4 Hits is 66%

Average is 3.5 hits

I tried my above squad only once so far. It was against a newer player. He ran Poe, Ello (regen) and another T70 all with integrated. He made the mistake of having 1 ship in range of all my bombers. I basically removed one of his ships per turn.

It seems like 6 torps is the limit with Gamma Vets/Jonus when squad building. I would prefer to volley 4 of them in the first round of combat so that's why I think Jonus should have a PT. In most matchups he should be able to survive one round of combat at range 3.