Working on a empire list - here's what I'm looking at.

Tie advance (Vader) squad leader, advance targeting computer, title

Tie interceptor, soontir fel, push the limit, Royal gaurd title

Tie phantom, echo, advance cloaking device

=100 on the nose.

The idea is for Vader and fel to fly around and action like crazy (thanks to Vader and his squad leader)while the phantom screams up the flank and either draws the other side chasing it and vulnerable to Vader and fel, or its ignored and allowed to snipe and harass. Defensively I think it's solid, and action wise I think I'm ok. Not sure tho as I'm very new. Has anyone tried a list like this? Any tips?

Might be rough going with Soontir w/o stealth device and auto-thrusters.

I'm looking to try something similar, but trading the Phantom for the Palpmobile (Lambda shuttle w/ Palpatine for crew). And as I understand it, it's good to get engine upgrade on Vader if you can.

I don't have a shuttle... And tbh I wanted to mind of avoid the whole palpmobile thing. Was going for a trio of high skill hard hitting guys. Now I've only gotten a few games in - all as rebels (I'm very new and everyone I play wants the empire) so I'm kind of fuzzy on some concepts but here's my thinking. Please feel free to correct me.

Darth gets 2 action, so generally I thought he would be focus/evade maybe throw in a barrel roll if he needs position. Boosting seems like a last resort and he'd not often Need it?

For fel I'm really unsure of how his combo actually works he was the last one I added to the list wich is why I wanted him close to Vader with squad leader. So he can get that extra action.

The phantom is the ship i really want to try. And I'm even considering an all phantom list - just because it seems like such fun to fly. I've always liked stealthy fast stuff. The problem I ran into - decking out all 3 of the ships listed so far puts me quite over limit. So to get all 3 of them had to trim the upgrades pretty hard.

Would this list be better dropping fel for a basic tie/fo and spending the freed up points on Vader and the phantom? Or is there other options?

Tie interceptor, soontir fel, push the limit, Royal gaurd title

Firstly, why Royal Guard title? No need for it whatsoever. .. No even 'thematic' as Fel isnt a Royal Guard nor does he fly a red interceptor...

On a more serious note I'm having palpitations seeing at least no Stealth Device. :/

It's a 0 pt title upgrade... But yea given the current load out its not needed. So how would I fit in a stealth device? I would need to free up 5 pts from someplace else in the list to give fel the auto thrusters and stealth. The only way I can see it working is take off vaders advanced targeting computer. Wich really boosts vaders damage (I'm assuming I roll his normal 2 red dice then I add a 3rd dice wich is automatically a crit?)

The only other way I can see it working is to really load up 2 of the 3 in the list and drop the 3rd for a generic "goober" tie.

Unless I'm missing something... I really don't know so help with this is a good thing please and thanks

You could drop squad leader and change echo to a Ps5 generic?

I agree with the above posts, Vader is nice with the title, ATC, and EU. You could give him VI to pop him up to PS11 and make sure he goes last to reposition with either Boost or Barrel Roll, or save the point. Fel is really good with the title, PTL, Stealth Device, and Autothrusters.

If you want to play both of those ships/pilots, and you're dead set on trying out the Phantom, you could drop Echo down to a Sigma pilot with FCS and the Stygium Particle Accelerator. With the last 1-2 points (depending on if you use VI on Vader) you could put an Intelligence Agent on it, or just save the points for initiative.

Also, yes you are correct about the Advanced Targeting Computer. You just add an extra crit result to your roll.

The only other way I can see it working is to really load up 2 of the 3 in the list and drop the 3rd for a generic "goober" tie.

Unless I'm missing something... I really don't know so help with this is a good thing please and thanks

Yes, trying to run these three guys together in the same list means they don't get all the upgrades they would like...

I will say that you are trying to run a very skill-intensive list that will be very punishing if you make any mistakes. One error, even a small one, and you can very well lose the game. I say this not to discourage you but to make sure you are aware of what you are getting yourself into!

Also, you are flying essentially a '3 flankers' list. What that means is your 3 ships are most effective when operating independently. Flying them close together in any kind of formation just cramps them and makes you more predictable and therefore, more likely to lose a ship early to enemy focus fire. You really don't want that with these guys---keeping them spread out with lots of room to maneuver means their dials are open and your opponent can never be sure which way you're gonna go. For that reason I strongly recommend ditching squad leader. Soontir doesn't like having a babysitter, and Vader is not exactly a 'motherly' sort...

My suggestion is to take it in smaller steps. Each of those three ships flies fairly different, and learning all three at once is putting a lot of strain on your mental capacity. Pick one that you are most interested in and fly it alongside some generics. This is an excellent way to learn the ship. Once you feel comfortable, you can switch it out for another ace, or start running two together alongside a cheap generic in a 3 ship list.

It sounds like you are most keen on the phantom, so perhaps start with Echo. I don't know what cards/ships you have available, so I'll just give you a couple of build ideas:

Echo w/ outmanoeuvre, sensor jammer, rebel captive & advanced cloaking device = 44. This is fairly expensive, but there is some synergy between the cards. Outmanoeuvre attempts to take advantage of echo's crazy decloak moves. Sensor jammer means that your opponent wants to focus in order to damage him, but if you can take advantage of his crazy decloak moves, chances are your opponents will need to boost or barrel roll to keep him in arc (and therefore cannot focus). The first shot on him takes a stress meaning that next turn, if that same ship wants to shoot at Echo again, he has to clear that stress with a predictable green move (making it easier for echo to stay out of their arc with his funky decloak and therefore triggering outmanoeuvre).

Echo w/ veteran instincts, FCS, recon specialist & advanced cloaking device = 40. This build clocks in 4 points cheaper than the above and is more 'standard'. Veteran instincts gives you pilot skill 8 (higher PS is important for phantoms because it means they are more likely to have their cloak token from ACD before enemies get to shoot them). FCS ensures that damage is high when you focus fire, and recon spec gives you a focus token for offense and defense if needed.

If you take this version, you have 60 points left. There are lots of options in this range for wingmates: 5 academy pilots, 4 black squadron w/ crack shot or even 2 royal guards loaded up (push the limit, royal guard title, autothrusters & hull upgrades = 30 x 2) are all reasonable examples...

So I figured out that vaders title actually makes his ATC 1 pt instead of 5 - freeing up 4 pts. So here's a revised list

Vader, title, advance targeting computer, engine upgrade

Intercepter, soontir fel, title, push the limit, auto thrusters, stealth device

Phantom, shadow squadron, advance cloak device

=104 (100 with vaders system price discount)

Posted previous before reading blades reply will read digest and respond in a bit. Thanks!

I have been working on lists along these lines as well. Having tried vader both with and without engine. I now fall into the `yes....take engine on him` camp.

I also love me some phantoms. but I will always and forever prefer Echo. but...a correct Echo cant fit with 2 other built aces. If you are using the lower PS phantom. I would try it with stygian particle accelertor instead of ACD. It is a bit more geared for the low PS versions because it will be the end of the turn anyways when they shoot so you dont get the benefit of the ACD early enough. It is also cheaper and can help make room to get that engine on darth.

Darth that can move like soontir fel and not take a stress to do it is really REALLY nice.

Looking at your revised list, I see you got the engine on darth. so going to stygian particle accelerator gets you a point for veteran instincts as well on darth and tadah! you now shoot first.

All that being that. try the list a few ways, you will see what works for you.

Played my first game today with the above

List - faced off against a falcon with c3po, Luke, Han, and some upgrades. He had Poe with r2d2 on his wing. First..... Holy cow is that Poe combo a freaking tough one! I had a hard time at first - he kept regenning his shields - but I was able to avoid or out fly both ships pretty well. The falcon got a few volleys in on the phantom but the 4 agility really saved me there. In the end I managed to squeak out a win by focusing down Poe and getting behind him. We called it at that point cause the game was 2 hours in. Some questions came up....

First, with the falcon he had han, Luke, c3po, the title and engine upgrade. So he would shoot me. If he biffed the roll or I dodged his shots he would use Han to reroll. Then, if he still missed he used Luke to shoot again, forcing me to reroll my defences dice. Then if he biffed that one he rerolled again.... Wondering if that's how that combo works? It seems pretty crazy. The other stuff was easy enough to figure out.

Only other question I had - with fel and ptl I can move, action, then use ptl to do another action and get a stress, wich gives me a focus token. So he's basically got 3 actions a turn?

First, with the falcon he had han, Luke, c3po, the title and engine upgrade. So he would shoot me. If he biffed the roll or I dodged his shots he would use Han to reroll. Then, if he still missed he used Luke to shoot again, forcing me to reroll my defences dice. Then if he biffed that one he rerolled again.... Wondering if that's how that combo works? It seems pretty crazy. The other stuff was easy enough to figure out.

Only other question I had - with fel and ptl I can move, action, then use ptl to do another action and get a stress, wich gives me a focus token. So he's basically got 3 actions a turn?

First question: I assume you are referring to Han the PILOT as opposed to Han the crew-member. If that is the case, then NO, what you describe is NOT how it works.

Here's the rules:

1) attacker rolls dice

2) defender may modify those dice

3) attacker may modify those dice

4) defender rolls dice

5) attacker may modify those dice

6) defender may modify those dice

7) compare results

So in the case of Han: the player rolls the dice. Assuming you (as the defender) has no way to modify them, we move on to step 3 (sensor jammer or elusiveness would be ways for defender to modify attack dice). Attacker can modify his dice with abilities that allow him to re-roll dice (Han's ability), use a token (such as focus) or change dice results (such as luke the crew). So if he doesn't like the roll, this is the time for him to activate Han's ability, but he MUST re-roll as many dice as possible according to Han's text (usually all of them, unless he re-rolled one or more already with TL or predator). NOW you roll defense dice. After you modify them (assuming attacker has no way to do so---Juke or Zuckuss crew are ways an attacker could do so) you then compare your results. If the attack misses, THEN he can activate Luke Skywalker and start the whole thing over again. However, if that 2nd attack misses (and Han's re-roll can be used again, because its a new attack) he CANNOT make any more attacks. Says so right on Luke's card.

2nd question: yes, more or less. Remember that Soontir's ability says MAY. That means you don't HAVE to take the focus token, but EVERY time Soontir takes a stress token, he MAY take a focus token if you want him to.

Big point that Blade makes and should be remembered, is that Han must decide to use his ability before the defender has rolled his defense dice. Han cannot roll 2 hits and miss, see that you have 2 evades, and reroll for the 3rd hit.

If you're keen on those three ships, maybe this?

100 points

PILOTS

Darth Vader (35)
TIE Advanced (29), TIE/x1 (0), Veteran Instincts (1), Engine Upgrade (4), Advanced Targeting Computer (5)

“Whisper” (39)
TIE Phantom (32), Fire-Control System (2), Veteran Instincts (1), Advanced Cloaking Device (4)

Saber Squadron Pilot (26)
TIE Interceptor (21), Push the Limit (3), Autothrusters (2)

Although it's worth noting that the bottom guy is the same number of points as Omega Leader with Juke and Comm Relay.

How does the saber compare to soontir fel?

Also thanks for the info on the falcon. That makes it a touch less broke. Lol

Another question, I have a game tomorrow where i get to use my raider - since I haven't used it before I'd like to get some advise on its setup. Here's what I have so far.

Fore: ion cannon, gunnery team, backup shield generator = 63

Aft: palpatine, instigator, 2x ion cannon, engine booster, engineering team, shield tech = 82

This lets me help out my support fleet with some dice changes, and stress removal, gives the ship some extra movement, ok shield recovery and some good ion attacks.

(Wich I am guessing at..... But I declare target, spend energy, roll my 4 dice if I get a hit result the target gets 1 crit and an ion, then all his defense and my attack dice go away? So as long as I roll the hit or crit it does damage? Or does the defender have the chance to evade this? )

I apreciate all the help so far. It's been very helpful!

How does the saber compare to soontir fel?

Saber doesn't really hold up to Fel in terms of effectiveness, but he's cheaper and still has a 3 attack gun (which is good). Sabers are good for blocking higher Pilot Skill stuff and with autothrusters they are quite difficult for turrets to harm, so I think they are decent.