thus far very little is known about mechanics. basically all that we know is the basic dice rolling. the quickstart is basically all fluff. Wick sent out an update saying he and his team have been tinkering with the rules presented there and are gonna be sending out an update, so maybe we'll get more details then, but i think we'll just have to wait and see, unless the backers make enough noise that he gives some details before the release, which i kind of doubt.

So the Backer preview pdf just went out, FOUR MONTHS AFTER FUNDING, which by metric of every other rpg kickstarter i've ever backed is INSANE. Exalted 3rd ed, which is by no means the standard, took what, 2+ years? Mage20 took 14 months (though in fairness that was literally a single writer). Call of Cthulhu's latest edition nearly bankrupted a COMPANY before the pdf went out. So not only was this a record setting kickstarter in terms of money raised, its delivering CRAZY on time. so i guess hats all the way off.

Is it any good?

Is it any good?

All i've had time to do with it is flip through. its really nice looking, which is kind of shocking enough as is. i wouldn't say it quite reaches the cohesive design level of the l5r 4th ed rpg books, but its better than any 3rd ed books, and its on par with most other major rpg books. when i have time to really parse it i'll give my impressions. i never played the last version though so it'll be a kind of clean take.

Well, one should never underestimate the stupidity capable in masses, especially where nostalgia is concerned.

I am glad this Kickstarter is delivering on its promises, but we are talking about a man here who married himself to one of the worst considered and balanced systems off which an RPG system has ever been built-- as system it seems that enough of the people on this boards are also married to so that there was an absolute revolt when I suggested that perhaps an L5R RPG more in like with FFG's other RPGs be created because the old L5R RPG is so extraordinarily broken that it completely fails to convey the world it is meant to convey.

Anyway, more than half a million dollars were contributed to come up with rules for a game that, as I recall, was originally built around buying booster pack that allowed you to create paper model ships from the pack. Which this no way duplicates...

Look, I am not aiming to tear John Wick down, really it is all more the matter that when you entirely follow a single person's vision without any counter-argument, playtesting and editing-- i.e peer review-- to fix it, it tends to come out kind of busted-- which ought to surprise no one.

That being said-- if those who donated feel like they got their money's worth (albeit, probably after donating to the unknown one is either going to have the reaction that whatever they receive no matter how poor is worth their money in order to justify their donation, or contrarily feel that no matter what they get is disappointing because it will never seem worth it) then I suppose all is good.

But, if that is the case, why is FFG developing anything at all without receiving kickstarter money upfront with stretch goals and so forth? Why should they develop the game on their own dime and turn it out to unknown profit if you are willing to fund a man with some good initial ideas but consistently bad implementation unlimited money for a subpar product upfront?

Well, one should never underestimate the stupidity capable in masses, especially where nostalgia is concerned.

I am glad this Kickstarter is delivering on its promises, but we are talking about a man here who married himself to one of the worst considered and balanced systems off which an RPG system has ever been built-- as system it seems that enough of the people on this boards are also married to so that there was an absolute revolt when I suggested that perhaps an L5R RPG more in like with FFG's other RPGs be created because the old L5R RPG is so extraordinarily broken that it completely fails to convey the world it is meant to convey.

Anyway, more than half a million dollars were contributed to come up with rules for a game that, as I recall, was originally built around buying booster pack that allowed you to create paper model ships from the pack. Which this no way duplicates...

Look, I am not aiming to tear John Wick down, really it is all more the matter that when you entirely follow a single person's vision without any counter-argument, playtesting and editing-- i.e peer review-- to fix it, it tends to come out kind of busted-- which ought to surprise no one.

That being said-- if those who donated feel like they got their money's worth (albeit, probably after donating to the unknown one is either going to have the reaction that whatever they receive no matter how poor is worth their money in order to justify their donation, or contrarily feel that no matter what they get is disappointing because it will never seem worth it) then I suppose all is good.

But, if that is the case, why is FFG developing anything at all without receiving kickstarter money upfront with stretch goals and so forth? Why should they develop the game on their own dime and turn it out to unknown profit if you are willing to fund a man with some good initial ideas but consistently bad implementation unlimited money for a subpar product upfront?

someone sure is salty

i can't speak for FFG, but i recall a Q&A with onyx path where they said that if they had their preference they would rather do a hybrid approach, so they could pay artists and writers up front to get started and not having the long lead times that a kickstarter requires (since you can't do anything at all until well after things have been announced and money collected), but for a small team like them the kickstarter gives them a degree of per project security that helps keep them stable. i would hazard to guess the FFG knows that any given project will be successful so they don't need to kickstart it.

I am glad this Kickstarter is delivering on its promises, but we are talking about a man here who married himself to one of the worst considered and balanced systems off which an RPG system has ever been built-- as system it seems that enough of the people on this boards are also married to so that there was an absolute revolt when I suggested that perhaps an L5R RPG more in like with FFG's other RPGs be created because the old L5R RPG is so extraordinarily broken that it completely fails to convey the world it is meant to convey.

Oh man, you haven't seen Blood&Honor yet, have you ?

I'm happy that John Wick and his fans are happy. I'm also happy he's not involved in anything I care about.

someone sure is salty

It's kind of his thing- guy makes me look like a ray of sunshine.

As far as it goes, kickstarting the 7th Sea RPG back into existence feels like a weird fluke... until one remembers that Palladium Books is somehow still in business, and then you realize nothing makes sense.

This is a hobby with a lot of loud, angry guys ranting about howmuch they hate stuff, and piles more quietly buying the systems whose legitimate flaws have been pointed out ad nauseam- sometimes while ranting about how someone else's favorite subpar system is the worst thing ever.

People felt like backing 7th Sea. End of story.

-snip-

Anyway, more than half a million dollars were contributed to come up with rules for a game that, as I recall, was originally built around buying booster pack that allowed you to create paper model ships from the pack. Which this no way duplicates...

-snip-

Is this referring to the "Pirates" game from Wizkids, or something else? Because that game had nothing to do with 7th Sea.

Here's a quick personal review of the preview after a first read. I didn't playtest it in actual play, however.

The system works great for simple resolutions (sneaking around guards, lockpicking a door, etc.), but gets sligthly more complex when it comes down to fights, chases or other conflicts that require more than one action to complete. It takes players outside their comfort zone and I'm okay with it, although I'm also GMing a Lords of Gossamer and Shadow game (the dieless system), so maybe I'm not a good example when it comes to playing outside the box.

Nonetheless, while I'm sure many people will whine endlessly about how the old edition was better, it does seem to really promote a swashbuckling atmosphere. Playing safe will be boring and being flamboyant is rewarded.

Gear is also extremely downplayed compared to talent. Damage is defined by your swordsman school and your skills rather than what you wield. Characters with Swordsmen Schools are extremely deadly. A welcome change compared to the old edition where it only gave you a slight benefit. (The only notable exception is the firearm, deadly by itself, but unusable after a single shot and gaining no benefit from schools). Everything, in fact, is more about descriptions and narrative resolution than micromanaging your actions and items.

Setting-wise, it's pretty much a reset button with a few tweaks and additions here and there. A new democratic nation (gasp!), Castille in war against Montaigne instead of having already lost half of its territory, Drakeneisen even rarer than before, reworked magical traditions and more.

John Wick has always been really awesome on passion, very good on setting, horrible on clarity, and downright painful on mechanics. Sounds like nothing too much has changed with this new Seventh Sea, then; the original one was one of the worst mechanics for a supposed swashbuckling game ever meshed together (and that was with Kevin Wilson trying to help him out on mechanics).

However, I'm glad for the Theah fans who have a renewed edition to play around and plunder in. Good luck and have fun!

A new nation ? I wonder where they set it.

So the Backer preview pdf just went out, FOUR MONTHS AFTER FUNDING, which by metric of every other rpg kickstarter i've ever backed is INSANE.

I'm guessing that the overwhelmingly negative response to the initial preview rules prompting a bit of re-writing on their part. Or I hope so at least, since the rules were a mess.

So the Backer preview pdf just went out, FOUR MONTHS AFTER FUNDING, which by metric of every other rpg kickstarter i've ever backed is INSANE.

I'm guessing that the overwhelmingly negative response to the initial preview rules prompting a bit of re-writing on their part. Or I hope so at least, since the rules were a mess.

As far as I can determine, the rules did not change at all.

There are addition rules however. Some are nice (I like the Arcana and some of the Advantage are pretty cool), but others are absolutely awful (Corruption is most likely the worst BS I have ever had the chance to see).

someone sure is salty

It's kind of his thing- guy makes me look like a ray of sunshine.

As far as it goes, kickstarting the 7th Sea RPG back into existence feels like a weird fluke... until one remembers that Palladium Books is somehow still in business, and then you realize nothing makes sense.

This is a hobby with a lot of loud, angry guys ranting about howmuch they hate stuff, and piles more quietly buying the systems whose legitimate flaws have been pointed out ad nauseam- sometimes while ranting about how someone else's favorite subpar system is the worst thing ever.

People felt like backing 7th Sea. End of story.

A new nation ? I wonder where they set it.

Extreme East of the continent, near the Crescent Empire, neighbour to Ussura. It should be noted that the map was significantly changed, however.

So the Backer preview pdf just went out, FOUR MONTHS AFTER FUNDING, which by metric of every other rpg kickstarter i've ever backed is INSANE.

I'm guessing that the overwhelmingly negative response to the initial preview rules prompting a bit of re-writing on their part. Or I hope so at least, since the rules were a mess.

As far as I can determine, the rules did not change at all.

There are addition rules however. Some are nice (I like the Arcana and some of the Advantage are pretty cool), but others are absolutely awful (Corruption is most likely the worst BS I have ever had the chance to see).

I read the part about corruption and I disagree. It's actually quite similar to the Dark Side Corruption mechanics in the old Star Wars d6. Not a ''wow'' mechanic, a bit boring even and unneccessary, but certainly not as bad as you make it look. If that is the worst BS you saw, thenI envy your blissful ignorance.

Rifts, the Basic System (Cthulhu), and many more have horrible systems, against which the new 7th Sea compare very favorably.

EDIT: I actually removed some example from the list of horrible systems, because they do not deserve any sort of publicity. I left those two because while their systems are horrible, the settings are great and enjoyable.

The fact that rifts was one of my earliest gaming experiences, and i still game, is a small miracle

The Basic Roleplaying System (BRS), Chaosium's house system used for many games including Call of Cthulhu, is awesome. It's simple to understand, simple to teach, and most importantly for Cthulhu, just gets out of the way so you can ignore the game bits and get on with roleplaying, which is very important to a mood as fragile as horror and suspense around a table.