Alright, so this isn't so much a rules question as it is a rules discussion. While driving home today, I was idly thinking of the finer points of pairing a Tractor Beam with Ruthlessness, and I was trying to figure out if it's legal and possible for the controlling player to choose whether or not to trigger the splash damage before and/or after the movement, or if it must be only one or the other. I mean, it would be great if you had the flexibility. But in order to figure this out, there are some finer minutia to dig into. So let's start with the basics.

When a player controls two effects that both trigger at the same time, that player decides which effect occurs first. Okay, easy enough to deal with. After all, when I have two or more ships with the same PS, I get to pick who moves or fires first. So let's take a look at the exact text on Ruthlessness:

"After you perform an attack that hits." Which means Ruthlessness resolves after the entire attack has been decided. We're good so far. So let's say you perform your tractor beam (which is of course a secondary weapon attack, which qualifies for Ruthlessness). Exactly what happens then? Well, let's say the attack will hit. Here's where the fun begins.

"If this attack hits, the defender receives 1 tractor beam token." Hmm. Okay, interesting. But then it says "cancel all dice results". So if I'm not mistaken, the token is assigned not after entirely resolving and performing the attack, but actually within the individual steps of performing an attack. More specifically, the token seems to be assigned inside the "compare dice" step, since dice are cancelled in that step and cancelling dice is the very last line of text on the card.

So if I'm reading this correctly, the token is assigned before the attack is actually fully completed. Though not found on the upgrade card itself, the rules insert for Tractor Beam tokens reads in part:

"The first time a small ship receives a tractor beam token each round, the opposing player chooses one of the following effects:

- Perform a barrel roll using the [1 straight] maneuver template. The opposing player selects the direction of the barrel roll and the final position of the ship.

-Perform a boost using the [1 straight] maneuver template."

Taken at face value this seems to imply that the movement occurs immediately upon receiving the token. And we've already established that receipt of that token occurs within the "perform attack" part. So, based on what I've gone over here, I'm lead to believe that no, you don't get to decide whether to apply the damage from Ruthlessness before the movement forced by Tractor Beam, only after resolving its new position does it apply (and as such, this is the ruling I'll be going with until further notice).

However, I could be wrong. There is one thing that I can't remember... exactly. I feel like I can recall a rule about timing and resolution that states that effects from one card can't interrupt the resolution of another. If that were true, Tractor Beam would assign its token, at which point the Rules Insert and Ruthlessness would occupy the same moment in the Resolution queue, putting them both firmly in the "player decides the order" category. If anyone knows more about this, please make it known.

I believe that you are correct. You can grab someone with the tractor, shove him into range one of his buddy and then deal a point of damage to the buddy.

That's why people are all excited to put Tractor Beam and Ruthlessness on Vessery with the TIE /D title.

I believe that you are correct. You can grab someone with the tractor, shove him into range one of his buddy and then deal a point of damage to the buddy.

That's why people are all excited to put Tractor Beam and Ruthlessness on Vessery with the TIE /D title.

Of course I'm aware of being able to do that. What I had originally been wondering about is if he's already in range of his buddy, but TB would push him out of it, and maybe into range 1 of your own ship! If that were the case, then you'd probably like to be able to apply the damage before the move! Sadly, if I'm correct, this is not possible.

Your timing seems to be right on.

Makes for some interesting decisions if your target is surrounded by your own ships. Do you fire or not? I guess you will just have to be careful in how you approach your target so that you have a safe direction to move him after a successful TB hit.

And by the way, I can't wait to use my Tractor/Ruthless Vessery to pull a dead man switch Z into a swarm of his buddies and do like 18 damage with a weapon that deals none.

I believe that you are correct. You can grab someone with the tractor, shove him into range one of his buddy and then deal a point of damage to the buddy.

That's why people are all excited to put Tractor Beam and Ruthlessness on Vessery with the TIE /D title.

Of course I'm aware of being able to do that. What I had originally been wondering about is if he's already in range of his buddy, but TB would push him out of it, and maybe into range 1 of your own ship! If that were the case, then you'd probably like to be able to apply the damage before the move! Sadly, if I'm correct, this is not possible.

I was confirming that you are correct. Tractor Beam and Ruthlessness do not share a timing. You must move them before Ruthlessness triggers.

I feel like I can recall a rule about timing and resolution that states that effects from one card can't interrupt the resolution of another.

False. PTL interrupt in the FAQ is case in point.

I feel like I can recall a rule about timing and resolution that states that effects from one card can't interrupt the resolution of another.

False. PTL interrupt in the FAQ is case in point.

It's a false statement but it's immaterial to the question being asked as there is never any timing overlap between these two cards.

1. All of the steps of an attack occur up to "Compare Results"

2. Results are compared and a hit is confirmed.

3. The defender receives a tractor beam token.

4. Because the defender is a small ship the attacker must choose a boost or barrel roll.

5. The defender moves his ship as specified by the attacker.

6. All dice results from the attack are canceled.

7. The attack concludes.

8. Ruthlessness triggers.

I guess it could be important to know that things can interrupt other things, otherwise you may not resolve the move that comes from receiving the token until after results are canceled. Even if you didn't perform the move before canceling results you'd still need to do the move before Ruthlessness as the move is clearly part of resolving the attack and Ruthlessness comes after that.

It makes the control option for Imperials which is something they are not exactly missing with rebel captive but it is a lot better than what it was. Control is only good if you are either doing effecient total control (1 ship to control 1 ship) or doing damage as well.

Now the only question is where are Scum's viable control options? I thought those were supposed to be the controlling faction.

4. Because the defender is a small ship the attacker must choose a boost or barrel roll.

Of course you raise the interesting point of small base ships, I suppose it's good to remember Large ones don't move, so if they're flying close to support ships then you can go nuts with the tractor beam all you want! You don't have to worry about moving it a) away from other enemy ships or b) close to your own.

It makes the control option for Imperials which is something they are not exactly missing with rebel captive but it is a lot better than what it was. Control is only good if you are either doing effecient total control (1 ship to control 1 ship) or doing damage as well.

Now the only question is where are Scum's viable control options? I thought those were supposed to be the controlling faction.

Scyks are the cheapest Tractor Beam carrier.

It makes the control option for Imperials which is something they are not exactly missing with rebel captive but it is a lot better than what it was. Control is only good if you are either doing effecient total control (1 ship to control 1 ship) or doing damage as well.

Now the only question is where are Scum's viable control options? I thought those were supposed to be the controlling faction.

Scyks are the cheapest Tractor Beam carrier.

Doing no damage makes them even worse point sink then they actually are not to mention that you would want your tractor beam on the highest Pilot skilled ships. Honestly the best Scyk builds are Mangler Scykes. Everything else becomes too much of an investment or too little of a return.

It makes the control option for Imperials which is something they are not exactly missing with rebel captive but it is a lot better than what it was. Control is only good if you are either doing effecient total control (1 ship to control 1 ship) or doing damage as well.

Now the only question is where are Scum's viable control options? I thought those were supposed to be the controlling faction.

Scyks are the cheapest Tractor Beam carrier.

Doing no damage makes them even worse point sink then they actually are not to mention that you would want your tractor beam on the highest Pilot skilled ships. Honestly the best Scyk builds are Mangler Scykes. Everything else becomes too much of an investment or too little of a return.

Entertain the thought of a bunch of scyks that throw other fighters around.

It makes the control option for Imperials which is something they are not exactly missing with rebel captive but it is a lot better than what it was. Control is only good if you are either doing effecient total control (1 ship to control 1 ship) or doing damage as well.

Now the only question is where are Scum's viable control options? I thought those were supposed to be the controlling faction.

Scyks are the cheapest Tractor Beam carrier.

Doing no damage makes them even worse point sink then they actually are not to mention that you would want your tractor beam on the highest Pilot skilled ships. Honestly the best Scyk builds are Mangler Scykes. Everything else becomes too much of an investment or too little of a return.

And if all of your ships have the same PS?

Also, important to remember, only 17 pts. And if my opponent is too worried about the Scyks to ignore my other threats, well, that's a win in my book. So, 2 Tractor Scyk + 3 Khiraxz sounds fun.

It makes the control option for Imperials which is something they are not exactly missing with rebel captive but it is a lot better than what it was. Control is only good if you are either doing effecient total control (1 ship to control 1 ship) or doing damage as well.

Now the only question is where are Scum's viable control options? I thought those were supposed to be the controlling faction.

Scyks are the cheapest Tractor Beam carrier.

Doing no damage makes them even worse point sink then they actually are not to mention that you would want your tractor beam on the highest Pilot skilled ships. Honestly the best Scyk builds are Mangler Scykes. Everything else becomes too much of an investment or too little of a return.

If the cheapest ship is to much of a point investment if you do no damage? So spend more points? On a more expensive ship to do the same 0 damage? I don't follow your broken logic.

It makes the control option for Imperials which is something they are not exactly missing with rebel captive but it is a lot better than what it was. Control is only good if you are either doing effecient total control (1 ship to control 1 ship) or doing damage as well.

Now the only question is where are Scum's viable control options? I thought those were supposed to be the controlling faction.

4LOM Pilot would like to say hello.

It makes the control option for Imperials which is something they are not exactly missing with rebel captive but it is a lot better than what it was. Control is only good if you are either doing effecient total control (1 ship to control 1 ship) or doing damage as well.

Now the only question is where are Scum's viable control options? I thought those were supposed to be the controlling faction.

Scyks are the cheapest Tractor Beam carrier.

Doing no damage makes them even worse point sink then they actually are not to mention that you would want your tractor beam on the highest Pilot skilled ships. Honestly the best Scyk builds are Mangler Scykes. Everything else becomes too much of an investment or too little of a return.

I'm of the opinion that Mangler SCYKs are better only than the Flechette and Naked versions, as they're basically worse Alpha Interceptors.

Ion SCYKs are incredible, and I can definitely see a Tractor Beam SCYK being an incredible control-vessel.

TB does get the most use if you're a higher PS than your victim, but it really only cares whether you attack before your allies, which you can easily do at low PS.

It makes the control option for Imperials which is something they are not exactly missing with rebel captive but it is a lot better than what it was. Control is only good if you are either doing effecient total control (1 ship to control 1 ship) or doing damage as well.

Now the only question is where are Scum's viable control options? I thought those were supposed to be the controlling faction.

Scyks are the cheapest Tractor Beam carrier.

Doing no damage makes them even worse point sink then they actually are not to mention that you would want your tractor beam on the highest Pilot skilled ships. Honestly the best Scyk builds are Mangler Scykes. Everything else becomes too much of an investment or too little of a return.

And if all of your ships have the same PS?

Also, important to remember, only 17 pts. And if my opponent is too worried about the Scyks to ignore my other threats, well, that's a win in my book. So, 2 Tractor Scyk + 3 Khiraxz sounds fun.

That's why people are all excited to put Tractor Beam and Ruthlessness on Vessery with the TIE /D title.

Is there a specific combo off of Vessery I'm missing, or is it just making use of his ship & pilot skill?

That's why people are all excited to put Tractor Beam and Ruthlessness on Vessery with the TIE /D title.

Is there a specific combo off of Vessery I'm missing, or is it just making use of his ship & pilot skill?

If Vessery's ability is active, he gets to spend a target lock on both the cannon and his primary.

Vessery for President!

That's why people are all excited to put Tractor Beam and Ruthlessness on Vessery with the TIE /D title.

Is there a specific combo off of Vessery I'm missing, or is it just making use of his ship & pilot skill?

Just that Vessery with the TIE/D gets to modify both attacks for free if an ally has a TL on the victim, so the combo's better here than on Brath or Stele.

That's why people are all excited to put Tractor Beam and Ruthlessness on Vessery with the TIE /D title.

Is there a specific combo off of Vessery I'm missing, or is it just making use of his ship & pilot skill?

It leverages how well Vessery's pilot ability works with the upcoming TIE/D title. As long as he is shooting something that a friendly has a target locked he get to make two target locked attacks. He's also a high enough Pilot Skill that you have a lot of choices for ships to shoot the tractored target after he does.

Oh! I new his ability was nice, but I hadn't even thought about TIE/D letting you spend the lock twice Very nice, thanks!

Oh! I new his ability was nice, but I hadn't even thought about TIE/D letting you spend the lock twice Very nice, thanks!

There's the old precedent of Cluster Missiles.

It should work and it will be glorious...

I do find myself wondering if Tractor Beam will make an all-Ruthless list viable. Right now, you'd run the risk of opponents just keeping their ships over range 1 way from each other, plus you'd have to worry about the only targets being close to only your own ships. With Tractor Beam you can at least be a little more confident that you can use Vessery to maneuver the target into a better position, lessening the risk.

My gut feeling from this last weekend's store championship is that there's still too many 2 ship lists in the meta for it to be worthwhile, although it's a lot more plausible now.