Ok, so we had set aside seven hours to play last night and it took us that bleeding long to get through "Hunted Down"

I'm the imperial, and I have players Alpha, Beta, and Omega.

Alpha wants to quarterback the whole thing and is friggin meticulous with his movement and is a **** good player. (Playing Saska)

Beta wants to mash stuff and gets distracted by "coolness" moves. When he's an effective player, but often focuses that effectiveness on the wrong thing. (Playing Biv)

Omega has no trouble staying on task, but has no interest in being the "leader". (Playing Mdh-19)

Ok, so here's my problem. I'm a long time DM, and my activations usually take about 3 minutes for something like a Stormtrooper unit, and that's just cause rolling dice takes time. I know what I need to get done, and plan my moves while the rebels are taking theirs.

And then I sit and am bored out of my skull.

Alpha takes short turn usually, but during his turns Beta has to put in his two cents (he wants buffs and support). That leads to discussion and contention.

Beta takes longer turns, because he wants to hare off and chase down stormtroopers and Alpha is trying to keep him focused on objectives. This takes forever and they can argue down to the minutiae of what space to move to.

Omega takes the longest turns, not because he's incompetent, but rather be cause BOTH Alpha and Beta want to tell him how to take his turn, and Omega is perfectly content to let them argue about it and then decide.

I'm sitting there and chiming in only with rules clarifications like I'm supposed to and trying to let them make their own decision. I think I had a spider spin a web between my shoulder and head at one point because I was waiting so long.

I have no idea what to do. I could do something meta like try and add a timer, but Alpha would resist anything that would challenge his ability to "optimize". Its damaging my fun. I'm looking for advice and commentary.

Timer for sure. 5 Minutes max for each character, maybe give them 10 minutes at the start of the round.

Some groups just play like this, could look into getting more casual players or just some other people

I just give them a look and a curt word. Know the pain though. I usually just read ahead and plan for future rounds and missions while digging through the deployment card binder and thinking of how things could have gone with different units on the board.

Try playing fast paced star wars music during your games. Maybe the music will add a sense of urgency and subconsciously speed up their turns.

That sounds rough. I'd just go with the timer and let them know they brought this on their selves. A hero suffers 1 strain for each minute over the limit they take.

I always play by the unwritten rule that hand wringing over an activation is only tolerable if that activation could actually decide the outcome of the mission. If someone wants to rule out every movement combination because if they'll lose due to the timer at the end of a round, or because they're trying to save the last hero from being wounded on my next Imp activation... we're all cool with that. There have been a couple missions where I've needed to do that, too, to stop someone from getting to an objective or whatever.

But if someone is letting the other players rule out / exhaust every possible space they could move, looking at every combination of weapons / dice / abilities to min/max every activation... no. If you've got a player who wants to murder mooks every turn at the expense of the objective, that's something that could reasonably be sussed out at the beginning of the mission and doesn't need to come up on every **** activation. Hell, there are some missions where that's probably a valuable tactic for the Rebels.

The way I look at it, and the way I've had to explain it to people on the rare occasion where something is taking too **** long... even the best planned attack is going to get ruined when someone rolls an X-Men dodge, so... we may as well get there in 5 minutes instead of 25. That's not to diminish the importance of strategy and tactics, but at some point you've just gotta get your turn over with!

I have the opposite problem to you, my players are so impulsive that they have basically finished their turns before the previous player has finished. It can sometimes have quite disastrous consequences

Problem is, *every turn decides the outcome. Our games invariably come down to the wire (with the exception of Generous Donations, but **** that mission) so it makes sense that they are concerned.

If I could just get them to play their own turns then shut the hell up, but then at the end you have one player saying "We would have won if it hadn't been for X making all those crappy movies". It would also squelch the social fun of the game.

But I'm not part of the social fun. I'm the enemy. I dont have a second imperial player to commiserate and plot with and scheme with. Maybe that's what I need.

Same issue with my wife. She takes forever. We had a bunch of fights about it. We discussed a timer, now she does much better. The biggest problem for me was that she was SOOOOO good at stomping my butt, that it was painful to sit there for 15 minutes waiting for her to figure out how best to destroy my hopes and dreams with Subversive Tactics. Now... if I could just get her to stop bringing nexus out every round to bleed my characters and block my path continually...

Long activations is the primary complaint from the Imperial player in my group and it’s so bad that I’m pretty sure it’s the main reason why our campaign is currently on hiatus.

Kalel814 outlined why a hybrid ruling of timing activations probably works best.

Using a min/max way of thinking for every turn can drag the game out but it’s appropriate when the game is on the line/a hero needs to avoid being wounded. No Rebel player wants to loose a mission because they were rushed to make a decision.

I will say this though, if I was the Imperial player in this type of situation, I’d be perfectly okay with it because win or lose my buds engaged in thorough planning and discussion over a Star Wars game. Just means that they were invested in the mission. Job well done!

Also demonstrates why being the big bad Imperial player requires a hefty amount of servility

But at the end of the day, just bring up an ultimatum: no timer, no imperial player!

In a way I'm complemented. Alpha said after the game they wouldn't take nearly this long if they were playing against a computer. They know I'll mash them if given the chance. His fear is getting snowballed. He said he takes the game so seriously because the effects of this mission echo to the end of the campaign.

Problem is, *every turn decides the outcome. Our games invariably come down to the wire (with the exception of Generous Donations, but **** that mission) so it makes sense that they are concerned.

If I could just get them to play their own turns then shut the hell up, but then at the end you have one player saying "We would have won if it hadn't been for X making all those crappy movies". It would also squelch the social fun of the game.

But I'm not part of the social fun. I'm the enemy. I dont have a second imperial player to commiserate and plot with and scheme with. Maybe that's what I need.

That's all true, but I cannot imagine getting so bent out of shape (no offense intended to your buddies, of course) about a game that at some point is going to come down to dice rolls. Or what card flips when you loot a crate. Or what cards pop up in my agenda deck, which could end up with me having villains to draw on or perks for my troops. Or which side missions pop up. There are some missions that are potentially advantageous for a group to lose.

So I don't know. I completely understand not wanting to lose a mission because someone forgot that Probe Droids can self destruct, and scouring the table for an extra 15 minutes would have reminded someone of that, which would have positioned a Rebel differently, which would have swung things to a victory instead of a loss. But if 20% of the players are spending a significant amount of their time bored while everyone else min/maxes the bejesus out of every activation, whoever is taking the most time has to compromise somewhere!

You know, that is a stretch, but what is sounds like you are talking about is a "conflict".

"Conflicts In A Campaign", RRG, Page 9:

If heroes are required to make a decision as a group and cannot come to a consensus, the Imperial player chooses a Rebel player to make the final decision.

One could argue that player Alpha and Beta are constantly forcing Omega's turn to become a required decision as a group. If that's the case, you could shut that down using the above rule. Like I said, it's a real stretch.

Time limits per activation seems to be the way to go. 5 is too long. They only have a single model to use, 3 minutes should be more than enough time.

I've been actually enjoying watching the players mull over what to do and acidently let slip their plans so that the mind reading dark side can take advantage.

Also I seem to end up being a neutral voice for some of the players who are not as tactically sound.

You know, that is a stretch, but what is sounds like you are talking about is a "conflict". "Conflicts In A Campaign", RRG, Page 9: If heroes are required to make a decision as a group and cannot come to a consensus, the Imperial player chooses a Rebel player to make the final decision.

One could argue that player Alpha and Beta are constantly forcing Omega's turn to become a required decision as a group. If that's the case, you could shut that down using the above rule. Like I said, it's a real stretch.

Time limits per activation seems to be the way to go. 5 is too long. They only have a single model to use, 3 minutes should be more than enough time.

It bugs me that a rulebook has rules to govern a social interaction, but it bugs me more that it actually is preferable to OP's situation. Next time, throw that ruling at the players. As an IP who had both an Alpha and a Beta in my group, I really wish I'd thought to start a timer. Maybe that campaign wouldn't have died of boredom...

We have a meticulous player in our group. We have tried a few things but what seems to work is that everyone would like to play 2 missions a night (we have 4-5 hours). So we usually tell him "time for the lightning round!". Background music is usually pretty quick stuff. We have all played imperial, so we all know that the imperial strategy is more of a reactionary thing and it doesn't matter much what the rebels do, because whatever they do usually dictates what the imperial player does next.

The one thing I haven't tried yet but would like to at some point: After the board is setup and once the first crazy thing happens (door opens, vader shows up, etc), have the imperial player leave the room for a couple minutes so they can talk strategy. Hopefully that would get things worked out without letting the imperial player know what they are planning, and make them feel better about their quicker decisions?

The one thing I haven't tried yet but would like to at some point: After the board is setup and once the first crazy thing happens (door opens, vader shows up, etc), have the imperial player leave the room for a couple minutes so they can talk strategy. Hopefully that would get things worked out without letting the imperial player know what they are planning, and make them feel better about their quicker decisions?

I did this as the Imperial in one campaign, but since we did it from the beginning, I can't say whether it had any impact on the length of Rebel turns. What I can say is that the initial planning phase often took 10 or 15 minutes of me standing in the other room fiddling with my phone, which was kind of lame.

DISCLAIMER: The following response is coming from an Imp player that will soon undertake a campaign due to the constant hints from his daughter and her friends that they would like to take a trip thru my game closet. Viewer discretion is advised.

In a way I'm complemented. Alpha said after the game they wouldn't take nearly this long if they were playing against a computer. They know I'll mash them if given the chance. His fear is getting snowballed. He said he takes the game so seriously because the effects of this mission echo to the end of the campaign.

If the players are taking an inordinate amount of time due to fear of getting crushed while making a suboptimal move, have you ever considered the possibility of a compromise of NOT punishing them for every bad move if they promise to speed up the game? It seems like, contextually, you yourself have caused them to need the time being taken in order to pull out a win.

As I state in my disclaimer, I'm about to begin a campaign with high schoolers whose gaming experience has likely topped out at Apples to Apples and big games of Werewolf. I'm looking at my role more as a GM than an opponent bent on winning at all costs. With 25 years of gaming experience behind me, I'm pretty sure I could win every game if I so choose. If the Rebels get to a point to where they have to triple guess every single activation to make sure they do not make a minor mistake which causes the games to last hours on end, I'm not even sure why anyone would want to keep playing if no one is having fun.

I never get bored even if my Rebel counterparts at times spend half an hour or more contemplating a single move, but I do sometimes pace them a bit merely to be sure that we can finish in time (as we're playing on weeknights).

I'm deadset against forcing anyone to leave the table, regardless of whether I play as the Empire or as a Rebel. It's a notion I've heard mentioned several time and I find it to be in direct opposition to everything that board games are about: a social activity. For anyone wanting a pure strategic experience unfettered by the dynamic of a human opponent, I suggest playing a computer game instead.

Timer is a really good idea! had final mission last night, totally op rebels and chewie ripped apart starting troops before i could activate anything second turn.

So had to sit there for 20 minutes while they argue over who to do what in what order when it really didn't matter at all. I messed about on my phone cause i was bored.

that sort of level there's no point spending 6 threat to bring troopers in, they jsut end up as mist 5 seconds later

As I state in my disclaimer, I'm about to begin a campaign with high schoolers whose gaming experience has likely topped out at Apples to Apples and big games of Werewolf. I'm looking at my role more as a GM than an opponent bent on winning at all costs. With 25 years of gaming experience behind me, I'm pretty sure I could win every game if I so choose. If the Rebels get to a point to where they have to triple guess every single activation to make sure they do not make a minor mistake which causes the games to last hours on end, I'm not even sure why anyone would want to keep playing if no one is having fun.

Hear, hear!

The other thing is though, a campaign can solely be changed in an instance due to a single (or multiple roles).

SPOILERS:

We played Dark Obsession last night (they wanted to prevent me from getting access to Vader). I brought the reserved Stormtroopers (3 health) in and first thing Diala did (she got a crate with C22 Frag Grenade) and she rolled a freaking 3 on the dice! There goes an entire deployment card gone in 1 second. She also rolled 2 Xs (dodge) in a row and I had to waste too many turns to wound them before I ran out of time with Vader.

Then the next mission after that was Imperial Hospitality. Jyn thought it would be good to "kill" my Imperial Officer. I rolled 2 Xs (dodge) in a row. Plus some good rolls during that campaign and really hit the Rebels hard. They also made some poor decisions (like opening the door on the 3rd hero to go on their 2nd activation - HELLO Officer and Trandoshans which gave me 2 more cards to use after I was spent with just the 1 Probe Droid and 2 Royal Guards!)

That's why I love this game.

~D

I learned very quickly that playing the Imperial/Overlord to win at all costs is a recipe for disaster. Try to win, but if you are clearly the better strategist, don't annihilate them at every turn.

But I'm not part of the social fun. I'm the enemy. I dont have a second imperial player to commiserate and plot with and scheme with. Maybe that's what I need.

DISCLAIMER: The following response is coming from an Imp player that will soon undertake a campaign due to the constant hints from his daughter and her friends that they would like to take a trip thru my game closet. Viewer discretion is advised.

In a way I'm complemented. Alpha said after the game they wouldn't take nearly this long if they were playing against a computer. They know I'll mash them if given the chance. His fear is getting snowballed. He said he takes the game so seriously because the effects of this mission echo to the end of the campaign.

If the players are taking an inordinate amount of time due to fear of getting crushed while making a suboptimal move, have you ever considered the possibility of a compromise of NOT punishing them for every bad move if they promise to speed up the game? It seems like, contextually, you yourself have caused them to need the time being taken in order to pull out a win.

As I state in my disclaimer, I'm about to begin a campaign with high schoolers whose gaming experience has likely topped out at Apples to Apples and big games of Werewolf. I'm looking at my role more as a GM than an opponent bent on winning at all costs. With 25 years of gaming experience behind me, I'm pretty sure I could win every game if I so choose. If the Rebels get to a point to where they have to triple guess every single activation to make sure they do not make a minor mistake which causes the games to last hours on end, I'm not even sure why anyone would want to keep playing if no one is having fun.

I'm doing both of these things in my campaign: co-piloting the Imps with a friend, and not penalizing anyone for losing. Having a friend on the Imperial side really helps. You get to strategize together and enjoy plotting the Rebels' demise

As for the other part - we were having a similar problem with games taking a very long time, and everyone stressing about their moves (well, the Alpha-like players at least). It was making it hard to keep going, and we realized, like you did, that the presence of permanent reward/penalty for winning or losing really raised the intensity of each mission.

So we just scrapped that part. Both sides get the "Victory" part of the reward. It's reduced the stress level and time it takes to play a game, and the Alpha-type players can still enjoy trying to win for the sake of winning. When they don't have to worry about being handicapped if they lose, they can play a little faster.

We aren't to concerned with ending up with a final winner and loser, but if you wanted to you could count Story Missions as 1 point, Side Missions as .5 points, and see who ends with the most points.

DISCLAIMER: The following response is coming from an Imp player that will soon undertake a campaign due to the constant hints from his daughter and her friends that they would like to take a trip thru my game closet. Viewer discretion is advised.

In a way I'm complemented. Alpha said after the game they wouldn't take nearly this long if they were playing against a computer. They know I'll mash them if given the chance. His fear is getting snowballed. He said he takes the game so seriously because the effects of this mission echo to the end of the campaign.

If the players are taking an inordinate amount of time due to fear of getting crushed while making a suboptimal move, have you ever considered the possibility of a compromise of NOT punishing them for every bad move if they promise to speed up the game? It seems like, contextually, you yourself have caused them to need the time being taken in order to pull out a win.

As I state in my disclaimer, I'm about to begin a campaign with high schoolers whose gaming experience has likely topped out at Apples to Apples and big games of Werewolf. I'm looking at my role more as a GM than an opponent bent on winning at all costs. With 25 years of gaming experience behind me, I'm pretty sure I could win every game if I so choose. If the Rebels get to a point to where they have to triple guess every single activation to make sure they do not make a minor mistake which causes the games to last hours on end, I'm not even sure why anyone would want to keep playing if no one is having fun.

This is how I view my role as the Imperial Player. This is not a nationally televised poker tournament. There is no money at stake. Isn't the goal of playing games with your friends to have fun? I understand there are ultra competitive players, and some of them can be trying. I would rather we all had fun than "win". The deck is kind of stacked against the heroes unless they are very smart players, and even then, a bad run of dice an make or break an entire scenario. I appreciate that IA has this level of difficulty available, but it shouldn't be mandatory for the Imperial player to try to squash them as if they were an actual commissioned officer in the Imperial Navy. That is why some scenarios give the Imperial player choices on how punitive they want to be when an objective is met. If you have 5 people who want the hardcore raiding experience, then by all means crush those Rebel scum, but the people I play with aren't like that, and I'm more than happy to take it easy on them and allow for a few mistakes not to be game spoiling. After all, they are the heroes. Would we all be here today if that gunnery officer had determined that the pod containing those two famous droids was not caused by a malfunction and obliterated it? Or if Darth Vader had bounced Princess Leia off the way like he did to Captain Antilles? I do understand it is more heroic to triumph through impossible odds, but again, so many outcomes are determined by a randomizers like dice, luck of the draw, etc. There is a only a small niche of players who want a game where even if they act perfectly, they can still not win.

As far as time limits go, I definitely think a timer should be used. I was in the infantry and then did VBSS when I switched to the Navy, you simply don't have all day to make decisions in a combat environment. Not saying there are any similarities to war fighting and playing games, but you are simulating those situations. I also agree the Imperial player should appoint a leader. Maybe we can rank the heroes from highest to lowest in a command structure with like Gideon at the top and MHD-19 at the bottom.

This is a great thread on the topic at hand. However, it is a little skewed from the POV of the Imperial player. I think there are other gaming groups (mine being one of them) where the impact is negatively felt by the Rebel players. The timer does seem to be the best solution and can somehow be played into the Star Wars theme. How many times has Solo and friends been in a situation where they had to think fast, in movie(s)/novel(s)?

Same issue with my wife. She takes forever. We had a bunch of fights about it. We discussed a timer, now she does much better. The biggest problem for me was that she was SOOOOO good at stomping my butt, that it was painful to sit there for 15 minutes waiting for her to figure out how best to destroy my hopes and dreams with Subversive Tactics. Now... if I could just get her to stop bringing nexus out every round to bleed my characters and block my path continually...

Thank god my wife doesnt play this game with me