Scenario -

I have a shot on another ship. The ship is at an angle. It's closest corner is JUST within range 1, however that corner is out of my firing arc. The closest point that is WITHIN my arc appears to be range 2.

So is my shot a range 1 shot, because the ship I'm shooting at does exist at range 1 of me.... or is the shot a range 2 shot, because the closest IN-ARC portion is range 2?

I always thought it would be a range 2 shot, but last week something like this happened and EVERYONE swore up and down that you treat the shot as a range 1 shot. They cited that it was in the FAQ, and all this stuff... they even said that it happened at a recent tourney at that was the ruling. My mind was blown so I needed to come ask you guys.

If your attack is arc-only, it's R2

if you're a PWT, it's R1

Scenario -

I have a shot on another ship. The ship is at an angle. It's closest corner is JUST within range 1, however that corner is out of my firing arc. The closest point that is WITHIN my arc appears to be range 2.

So is my shot a range 1 shot, because the ship I'm shooting at does exist at range 1 of me.... or is the shot a range 2 shot, because the closest IN-ARC portion is range 2?

I always thought it would be a range 2 shot, but last week something like this happened and EVERYONE swore up and down that you treat the shot as a range 1 shot. They cited that it was in the FAQ, and all this stuff... they even said that it happened at a recent tourney at that was the ruling. My mind was blown so I needed to come ask you guys.

I'm assuming that you are asking about an attack that is restricted to the ship's arc.

The attack would be range two. If there were any abilities with a range requirement separate from the range of the attack (like Autothrusters) then you'd use the closest point measurement for that.

In my opinion the range should be what it is in the arc of the weapons in question.

The shot is indeed a Range 2 shot, if it's an arc-restricted attack.

All ship-to-ship measurements will be Range 1, however. So there are many effects that may trigger or not trigger based on the range of the ships, independent of the attack range.

Per the Rules Reference, under the section "Range":

When measuring range for an attack, the attacker

measures to the closest point of the target ship that

is inside the attacker’s firing arc.

They cited that it was in the FAQ, and all this stuff...

Based on how I understand what you're saying, they all were wrong. Unless you are using a turret of some sort, the range is measured closest point in arc so any part of the ship base that is out of arc doesn't matter.

Rules are pretty clear on this, but I have often heard this very misunderstanding of them while TOing.

Page 10 Core rule book:

"To measure range, place the Range 1 end of the range ruler so that it touches the closest part of the attacker’s base. Then point the ruler toward the closest part of the target ship’s base that is inside the attacker’s firing arc. The lowest section (1, 2, or 3) of the ruler that overlaps the target ship’s base is considered the range between the ships."

the shot as describes is definitely range 2, as explained in the RRG:

"When measuring range for an attack, the attacker measures to the closest point of the target ship that is inside the attacker’s firing arc."

There are corner cases where the actual range between the ships matters independently of the range of the shot.

For instance, f it were range 3/2 and the defender had autothrusters, they would not trigger because they are in your arc and only range 2 away (even though it's a range 3 shot).

When in doubt, read the rules.

RANGE
Range is the distance between two ships as
measured by the range ruler, which is divided into
three range bands. To measure range between two
ships, place the range ruler over the point of the first
ship that is closest to the second ship, then point the
other end of the ruler toward the point of the second
ship’s base that is closest to the first base. The
range is the band of the range ruler that falls over
the closest point of the second ship.
When measuring range for an attack, the attacker
measures to the closest point of the target ship that
is inside the attacker’s firing arc.

• The following terms are used concerning range:
◊ Range #–#: The range includes all of
the range bands from the minimum to the
maximum specified.
◊ At: A ship is at a specified range if the
closest point of its base falls inside that
range.
◊ Within: A ship is within a specified range if
the entirety of its base falls inside that range.
◊ Beyond: A ship is beyond a specified range if
no part of its base falls between Range 1 and
the specified range.

• If attacking with a turret primary weapon or a
secondary weapon that may target a ship outside
the attacker’s firing arc, the attacker must
measure to the closest point of the target ship
even if that point is outside its firing arc.

• When measuring range to a token, measure
to the point of that token that is closest to the
ship’s base.

• When measuring, players use a single edge of
the range ruler; the width and thickness of the
ruler are irrelevant.

• A ship is at Range 1 of itself and any ships that
it is touching.

Therefore:

• If you are attacking with a primary or auxiliary arc, then the shot will be at range 2 because the shot must be in arc.
• However, if you are attacking with a primary weapon turret or a secondary weapon that lets you fire out of arc, it will be a range 1 shot. "In-arc" is then checked after range is determined, so it will be an in-arc range 1 shot.

Consider this scenario at Worlds 2015, myself vs Kinetic Operator, first combat round rolling dice:

• A K-wing with Tactician and TLT is shooting at an IG-88.
• The K-wing's firing arc grabs the base of the IG-88 at range 3.
• The closest point to closest point is just barely in range 2 (less than 1 mm)

Result: It is a range 2, in-arc shot. The IG-88 does NOT get autothrusters, and Tactician DOES trigger after each TLT attack. Kinetic Operator goes on to win the match 100-31 as I can't get the IG-88 turned around for several rounds.

Thank you all for the sanity check. And yes, this is a standard, forward firing arc-only shot. Obviously a turreted ship wouldn't measure arc for a primary weapon shot in this case. (Unless tactician or something like that I suppose).

They must have all gotten the rule wrong and confused it with something else. Maybe like, a Mara Jade ruling or something unrelated to firing arcs.

They must have all gotten the rule wrong and confused it with something else.

My guess is they were thinking of a turret attack, which would be range 1 in that case.

Unless its a turret that was a Range 2 shot.

This has come up a few times where I play.

For the purpose of in arc shooting, any part of the base that is not in your arc does not exist

They must have all gotten the rule wrong and confused it with something else.

That k wing IG example almost makes me want to quit playing for sheer frustration. Auto thrusters and this example happens way too often in casual games too. And the ruling, although I fully understand it, makes absolutely no grok sense and is particularly unusual and dumb. I'm really sure there's a logical fault there somewhere that is caused by the double measurements.

Maybe they were confused because of a game where the enemy ship had a "Range 1" effect. Suppose Carnor Jax was the target ship. Lets say Wedge has a shot on Carnor Jax, and lets say that the LOS arc makes it a range 2 shot, yet an our-of-arc corner puts the 2 ships at range 1. Carnor's range 1 ability would hinder Wedge's range 2 attack.

Consider this scenario at Worlds 2015, myself vs Kinetic Operator, first combat round rolling dice:

• A K-wing with Tactician and TLT is shooting at an IG-88.
• The K-wing's firing arc grabs the base of the IG-88 at range 3.
• The closest point to closest point is just barely in range 2 (less than 1 mm)

Result: It is a range 2, in-arc shot. The IG-88 does NOT get autothrusters, and Tactician DOES trigger after each TLT attack. Kinetic Operator goes on to win the match 100-31 as I can't get the IG-88 turned around for several rounds.

Tactician I buy ... "an attack against a ship inside your firing arc at Range 2" ... both criteria were satisfied.

But I'm struggling to understand the Autothrusters part.... "beyond Range 2 or outside the attacker's firing arc"... I'm tying my brain in knots, because IG-88 was simultaneously beyond Range 2 inside the attacker's firing arc, and also within Range 2 outside the attacker's firing arc. The overlapping logic seems to make the criteria satisfied either way.

I'm not arguing you're wrong, just saying I need to be baby-stepped through the reasoning here.

...... Nevermind. I think I'm convincing myself. I've never thought of Autothrusters "...beyond Range 2..." applying in this way, but it's simply closest-to-closest range measurement, without regard to arc lines. Fascinating...

Depends on the weapon. If you're attacking with a turret, its R1. If you're attacking with a weapon that's front arc only, it's R2.

Right. The attack in the K-wing vs IG-88 example is "at range 2, and in-arc."

Done. Autothrusters doesn't trigger for the same reason that Tactician DOES trigger.

The complicating bit is that when you make an attack that uses the firing arc, there are always two different range measurements. But usually they're the same, and often one of them is irrelevant.

If you're making a Range 2 primary attack with a naked Academy Pilot, it doesn't matter what the range is to your opponent's closest point. If you're making an attack with a Warden Squadron Pilot + Tactician against a target inside your firing arc, even if the closest point is out of arc for you, it's rarely going to be in a different range band.

But the number of range-based abilities in the game has reached some kind of critical mass, now, and the corner cases where it actually matters keep popping up. But the popular understanding of the rules hasn't kept pace. It's not that most players can't understand the distinction between the two range measurements, it's that most of them have spent years not needing to consider it--so they end up without the tools to correctly resolve those corner cases at the table.

Sometimes I hate RAW. In arc, check. Range 2, check. Both at the same time as is intended? Definitely not check.Either its a range 2 out of arc shot or it is range 3 in arc.