PC is insulted by NPC, so PC attacks NPC.

I ask "Attack him with what?" Player says "I shoot him with my blaster." I say "Okay..." and player starts gathering his Initiative pool, "...you shoot him and he falls to the floor, dead." Player says "I didn't want to kill him, just hurt him." I say "Then you shouldn't have shot him."

Maybe I'm just getting too old for that kind of crap; I know it's just a game, but shooting a random drunken bigot in a bar is not worth rolling dice...or my time. Civilized population center, 40+ witnesses to the shooting, case closed, new PC, or retcon the scene?

I agree, no need for dice, sounds like an easy 'here's 5 Obligation-Wanted'.

Did the PC say "I carefully take aim at the insulter's leg and attempt to injure but not kill him"? No?

So he "shot" him in a nondescript location. People die when they get "shot", as a general rule (at least as often as they don't die when they get shot).

Don't fool around with guns, kids.

Hey kids, blaster pistols come with a stun setting for a reason.

Han did it, everyone looked away lol.

Murder is like Real Estate.

Location is everything.

Han did it, everyone looked away lol.

I don't think someone needs to leap to their feet, point, and scream 'witch!' to qualify as being noticed for accruing Obligation. A person of reasonable common sense likely wouldn't confront a homicidal maniac directly.

EDIT: Was trying to quote GreyMatter

The first game of Rogue Trader I ran the Arch Militant tries to take someone alive by shooting them in the leg.

Me: "Your shot hits with unerring accuracy. His leg explodes, sending meat and bone shards in every direction, blood sprays from the stump in a red torrent of horror. Needless to say he goes into shock and dies."

AM: "But, I was-"

Me: "It was a bolter shell, mate. I know you know what a bolter is."

(According to the fluff a bolter (or bolt thrower) is basically an SMG that fires inch-diameter armour piercing slugs that explode like a micro-grenade once they're inside you. 40k is never subtle or civilised.)

EDIT: Was trying to quote GreyMatter

The first game of Rogue Trader I ran the Arch Militant tries to take someone alive by shooting them in the leg.

Me: "Your shot hits with unerring accuracy. His leg explodes, sending meat and bone shards in every direction, blood sprays from the stump in a red torrent of horror. Needless to say he goes into shock and dies."

AM: "But, I was-"

Me: "It was a bolter shell, mate. I know you know what a bolter is."

(According to the fluff a bolter (or bolt thrower) is basically an SMG that fires inch-diameter armour piercing slugs that explode like a micro-grenade once they're inside you. 40k is never subtle or civilised.)

Hahaha...yeah, "imprecise" bolter hits have the same effect as "precise" ones. That's just how the Machine God made them!

This is when a player could ask to flip a destiny point to insert something into the narrative. That something could be, "I remembered to put my blaster on stun."

I have been pondering how to get my players into a bar fight where they just fight, and don't suddenly whip out lethal weapons for very much the same reason. I've avoided it so far because players have a tendency to assume an encounter means a fight to the death. I am thinking I'll just break the fourth wall a bit and explain that this is a bar fight and murdering people will be frowned upon.

I had pretty much exactly this situation come up in our game yesterday - a PC escalated a bar brawl by drawing his pistol and killing his opponent. Unfortunately the opponent was in good favour with a Hutt, and there were plenty of witnesses so the party had to flee and the PC now has a 5 point bounty obligation.

I have been pondering how to get my players into a bar fight where they just fight, and don't suddenly whip out lethal weapons for very much the same reason. I've avoided it so far because players have a tendency to assume an encounter means a fight to the death. I am thinking I'll just break the fourth wall a bit and explain that this is a bar fight and murdering people will be frowned upon.

Team mud wrestling for money?....

Look, I don' care if the PC is the group gunny bunny tough. Shooting a nameless NPC "because game" is flat out stupid.

Here's the scene: Bothan PC is getting info from bartender -the easy way, by talking- when one of his blustery show-off comments elicits a chuckle from the guy at the end of the bar. PC asks asks what's so funny. NPC says " You, Kitty-Kitty."

Seem like a shooting offence?

Look, I don' care if the PC is the group gunny bunny tough. Shooting a nameless NPC "because game" is flat out stupid.

Here's the scene: Bothan PC is getting info from bartender -the easy way, by talking- when one of his blustery show-off comments elicits a chuckle from the guy at the end of the bar. PC asks asks what's so funny. NPC says " You, Kitty-Kitty."

Seem like a shooting offence?

Hey, it's an RPG. Everything is potentially a "shooting offence".

By which I mean, "via firing squad at the local justice branch."

I think it's a hard point to sell due to the cantina scene in Episode IV. It sets a certain tone for the bar scenes in hives of scum and villainy.

That being said it's not at all unreasonable to have narrative results such as Criminal / Bounty / Bad Reputation Obligations pop up for shooting people. Because not everyone that get shot in a bar is a dirty unloved scumbag. Often, other people care when NPC "enter name here" gets killed for something where just a good beating should have sufficed.

Look, I don' care if the PC is the group gunny bunny tough. Shooting a nameless NPC "because game" is flat out stupid.

Here's the scene: Bothan PC is getting info from bartender -the easy way, by talking- when one of his blustery show-off comments elicits a chuckle from the guy at the end of the bar. PC asks asks what's so funny. NPC says " You, Kitty-Kitty."

Seem like a shooting offence?

Depends upon the type of bar. If it's an upscale establishment then that would not be the correct response. If it's a dive filled with criminals then yes, that would be the correct response. Criminals look for easy prey, so if the gun bunny didn't kill the npc everyone in the bar would think the group is easy marks. Look at ANH where Luke and Ben enter the Mos Eisley cantina. Ben cuts off the arm of one of the criminals there because he was threatening. The response was justified. The bar in AotC is lot more high scale than the Mos Eisley cantina, so Ben's response was appropriate to the situation presented. Location is everything when it comes to what is a justified reaction.

I think it's a hard point to sell due to the cantina scene in Episode IV. It sets a certain tone for the bar scenes in hives of scum and villainy.

That being said it's not at all unreasonable to have narrative results such as Criminal / Bounty / Bad Reputation Obligations pop up for shooting people. Because not everyone that get shot in a bar is a dirty unloved scumbag. Often, other people care when NPC "enter name here" gets killed for something where just a good beating should have sufficed.

Except Greedo had just announced his intention to kill Solo. Greedo didn't walk up to him and say, "You smell like sweat, pink-skin" and then get his chest ventilated.

Han did it, everyone looked away lol.

Han was in a den of scum and villainy and Greedo was a nobody. Neither of those has to be true if you don't want to encourage your players to be D&D-style murderhobos.

"Shot a man over a disagreement" is the kind of thing you'd see on a wanted poster detailing the main villain of a spaghetti western, not the protagonist.

I'm not running Quentin Terentino's Star Wars. The players know this. It just sticks in my craw that players in many games can go from zero to batshit crazy in no time. Again, I understand it's just a game, but for crap sake...engage with consistency.

I'm not running Quentin Terentino's Star Wars. The players know this. It just sticks in my craw that players in many games can go from zero to batshit crazy in no time. Again, I understand it's just a game, but for crap sake...engage with consistency.

I tend to be the same way. Show them the consequences of their actions and they'll smarten up. If it persists, it might be worth having an OOC chat about expectations and setting and preferences as GM. They might have come from a powergaming mudercampaign prior to yours -- we've all been in one of those and hooboy are they bad.

I can see that. Of course you could always play it right back on them. Most people have friends or know someone, so added Obligation or suddenly the PCs realize the victim belonged to the local dockworkers union and 30 people stand up when nutburger shoots the guy.

I know if I was in a group and someone was playing it that way, at some point when they go down from wounds or aren't really paying attention I'm putting the mad dog down and not getting my PC all shot up because someone insists on being a nut.

Look, I don' care if the PC is the group gunny bunny tough. Shooting a nameless NPC "because game" is flat out stupid.

Here's the scene: Bothan PC is getting info from bartender -the easy way, by talking- when one of his blustery show-off comments elicits a chuckle from the guy at the end of the bar. PC asks asks what's so funny. NPC says " You, Kitty-Kitty."

Seem like a shooting offence?

Depends upon the type of bar. If it's an upscale establishment then that would not be the correct response. If it's a dive filled with criminals then yes, that would be the correct response. Criminals look for easy prey, so if the gun bunny didn't kill the npc everyone in the bar would think the group is easy marks. Look at ANH where Luke and Ben enter the Mos Eisley cantina. Ben cuts off the arm of one of the criminals there because he was threatening. The response was justified. The bar in AotC is lot more high scale than the Mos Eisley cantina, so Ben's response was appropriate to the situation presented. Location is everything when it comes to what is a justified reaction.

I would note however that the pair did pull blasters on Kenobi, and that, in canon at least, Obi-Wan killed Evazan.

Don't forget that the Mos Eisley Cantina is a very unusual place. Obi Wan Kenobi, who has travelled the galaxy widely, including hanging out with pirates, bounty hunters and so forth, says of Mos Eisley that "you will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy". If Obi Wan has never seen a worse place then it's pretty awful. This is not your typical bar and actions within it should not be considered normal or appropriate elsewhere.

I think the tendency for players to act up is related to how much agency their GM allows them.

In my experience players tend to engage in earnest roleplaying more frequently when the GM gives them the freedom to act as they will, but the more the GM tries to enforce characterization on them the more they act out--and often that acting out takes the form of senseless violence or slapstick villainy, because those are easy ways to have dramatic impacts on the story that the GM can't just roll their eyes and sweep under the rug. If you give them the rope to play their characters they will usually do so, but if you insist on tugging them a certain way they will almost always tug back, hard.