Now, I'm not some amazing player, so while this is a rant, it's also a legitimate question.

I did a local store championship recently, and I got destroyed, losing four of five matches. However, the first two matches were where I came against a real problem that I couldn't figure out a way to really stop it - the Tie Phantom. In both cases, it was a nearly identical list, a decimator with Palp, and a Whisper, I believe, though the loadouts were a bit different.

But the end result was the same. I wasn't running aces, so I had zero chance to really outmaneuver the phantom, unless they made a mistake - and without outmaneuvering him and preventing that cloak, I had no real chance to do damage to him because of the ridiculous four agility. I can't stay out of his arc, because his maneuverability is absolutely insane.

What are you supposed to do against him, if you don't have any real options to force damage through, or shoot before he cloaks?

The best way to kill a phantom you aren't a bigger ps than is the old fashioned throw dice at it. Sorry I'm sure its not what you wanted to hear. Green dice have a habbit of buckling so you just have to focus on it till it drops from weight of fire.

Destroy the Decimator and try to block Whisper's decloaks. What list did you have?

First and most important question: were you using the correct timing for Decloak - it should happen immediately before revealing dials, there was an errata.

If not, that probably explains it.

If so, then you deal with it by either firing first, blocking it so it doesn't fire at all, or outguessing it so it has nothing to fire at. Once it's decloaked there aren't that many places it can go, as it only has barrel roll for repositioning.

Also, 4 dice fail easily - and Phantoms won't have autothrusters, and often won't have evade or focus tokens to modify their rolls, so they rely on naked dice, and they're really, really fragile.

You can also troll them by blocking their decloak routes if you're careful.

The best way to kill a phantom you aren't a bigger ps than is the old fashioned throw dice at it. Sorry I'm sure its not what you wanted to hear. Green dice have a habbit of buckling so you just have to focus on it till it drops from weight of fire.

So not balanced then. Got it.

Destroy the Decimator and try to block Whisper's decloaks. What list did you have?

I was running Kenkirk with Palp, Omega Leader, and Wampa. It wasn't a great list, and I didn't fly particularly well with the Ties, but Kenkirk did a lot of work.

The most frustrating part of both matches is that the Decimators were never an issue in either - they did almost no damage, and were never a significant enough threat except for Palpatine. It was all Whisper.

For the points value he has, he really should fall under the "half points for half damage" rule - he's far too tanky as is.

the Tie Phantom is quite Balanced now that you are required to decloak before the any ship has moved, it was OP last year when you could decloak just before activationg the Tie Phantom which was usually at PS8 or 9

you had Wampa + Palpatine , if you could correctly guess Whispers end location you could have 2 shot Whisper with Wampa at R3 through asteroids.

You were flying wampa and palpatine support against a phantom? That should be reletively easy to kill a phantom, you only need wampa to get 2 shots, at any range and it doesn't matter what you roll, palp changes a die to a crit, wampa triggers, BOOM, face down damage card on whisper. Do that a second time and whispers dead. Yeah, decloaking is slippery, but most any ship can be gotten in arc at range 3.

The best way to kill a phantom you aren't a bigger ps than is the old fashioned throw dice at it. Sorry I'm sure its not what you wanted to hear. Green dice have a habbit of buckling so you just have to focus on it till it drops from weight of fire.

So not balanced then. Got it.

Yes. That is the answer. You were playing at a competitive tournament against experienced players and got your lunch money stolen. The obvious answer is not to get better but that the ship you had problems with is overpowered and this entire game is broken. <rolleyes>

You admit that you did not bring a good list and that you did not play it well. I think you have the answer you are looking for. Bring a better list and fly better.

When I lose the problem is not with the game, it is with me. AS with all things in life, practice and be honest with yourself.

The best way to kill a phantom you aren't a bigger ps than is the old fashioned throw dice at it. Sorry I'm sure its not what you wanted to hear. Green dice have a habbit of buckling so you just have to focus on it till it drops from weight of fire.

So not balanced then. Got it.

Destroy the Decimator and try to block Whisper's decloaks. What list did you have?

I was running Kenkirk with Palp, Omega Leader, and Wampa. It wasn't a great list, and I didn't fly particularly well with the Ties, but Kenkirk did a lot of work.

The most frustrating part of both matches is that the Decimators were never an issue in either - they did almost no damage, and were never a significant enough threat except for Palpatine. It was all Whisper.

For the points value he has, he really should fall under the "half points for half damage" rule - he's far too tanky as is.

It's balanced and not overpowered. It's got high strength, low agility tempered by a cloaking device, and very very few hit points. It's not tanky, nor is it particularly good at avoiding being hit, compared to the likes of Soontir, or even Fat Han. It just moves at high PS, and hits hard.

If you really want to make sure of killing it, TLTs, PWTs, bombs and mines, the likes of Wampa, there are a tonne of good ways to do it, not just shooting first, though that's by far the most reliable. Not to mention stressing it, that's an amazing way of killing it. Hit it with a stresshog or TLT Tactician, it's hosed.

Further, saying the Decis did nothing except hold Palpatine is missing the point that palpatine is AMAZING, and doubly so when you're throwing a buttload of dice mostly without much modification. Green dice fail, and Palpatine can make them not fail. Fighting against DeciPhantom, my first target is usually going to be the Decimator.

As above. Wampa + Palp = DEAD

The right set-up on Omega Leader should also kill a Phantom, either you had the worse dice in the world or you weren't using your squad to its full potential

If you are using the proper decloak rules it's easier. Wampa should autokill whisper in 2 shots. Omega Leader should make those 4 green dice pretty fickle. Not the best phantom hunting list there but it should have faired better than that.

Phantom is now more balanced since it doesn't react anymore but Advanxed cloaking device is still a bit silly unless you can out PS it. Wished we would have had something more out of that card. Remember, it's a z-95 when not cloaked.

If you catch it out of cloak it is just a 4 attack Z-95. Phantoms don't like stress because it disables their cloaking device as it is temperamental.

If you are having problems with Phantoms now they are nothing compared to Super Soontir builds. Especially with the cloaking nerf which moves to to the start of the activation phase instead of before their maneuvers. Phantoms are no where near the Menace that they used to be.

I think the most important thing is not to get discouraged. Phantoms are a real pain to deal with for sure, but people here are more than willing to offer help and suggestions tactic wise, as you have seen here. I want to suggest playing with a phantom a bit yourself. After a few rounds with it, you will be able to get a much better feeling of where the cloak can send it.

The best way to kill a phantom you aren't a bigger ps than is the old fashioned throw dice at it. Sorry I'm sure its not what you wanted to hear. Green dice have a habbit of buckling so you just have to focus on it till it drops from weight of fire.

So not balanced then. Got it.

The opposite actually. It's a great little ship that has a very big flaw (its easy to one shot). If you can't outmanoeuvre it then you just have to shoot it down with fire. So is Soontir Fel unbalanced just because hes hard to outmanoeuvre?

Fel isn't nearly as hard to take down, despite the autothrusters, and doesn't have the same damage output. The ability to take a crew and systems slot makes all the difference for Whisper.

As above. Wampa + Palp = DEAD

The right set-up on Omega Leader should also kill a Phantom, either you had the worse dice in the world or you weren't using your squad to its full potential

Wampa couldn't reliably get two shots on the phantom in either game, without me being forced to use Palp defensively first. In both games, I managed to get it off once in each match, but Wampa just becomes a priority target, and that's eliminated. Not to mention Whisper is absolutely capable of dodging his arc in most cases, because of how insanely powerful decloak is, even with the nerf.

I did have pretty bad luck with dice(I was rolling about average on defense dice, but both games I had multiple times rolling against 4 or 5 natural hits from Whisper).

I think the most important thing is not to get discouraged. Phantoms are a real pain to deal with for sure, but people here are more than willing to offer help and suggestions tactic wise, as you have seen here. I want to suggest playing with a phantom a bit yourself. After a few rounds with it, you will be able to get a much better feeling of where the cloak can send it.

This is my plan. I'm going to pretty much copy the winning list(with some modifications) to understand it better forr the next store championship.

I think the most important thing is not to get discouraged. Phantoms are a real pain to deal with for sure, but people here are more than willing to offer help and suggestions tactic wise, as you have seen here. I want to suggest playing with a phantom a bit yourself. After a few rounds with it, you will be able to get a much better feeling of where the cloak can send it.

This is my plan. I'm going to pretty much copy the winning list(with some modifications) to understand it better forr the next store championship.

Practice beats phantoms.

not whining beats phantoms.

I think the most important thing is not to get discouraged. Phantoms are a real pain to deal with for sure, but people here are more than willing to offer help and suggestions tactic wise, as you have seen here. I want to suggest playing with a phantom a bit yourself. After a few rounds with it, you will be able to get a much better feeling of where the cloak can send it.

This is my plan. I'm going to pretty much copy the winning list(with some modifications) to understand it better forr the next store championship.

That's a solid plan. Which modifications are you thinking?

Mostly on his build. He was using Oicunn with Palp, Ion Projector, Predator, and Ion Bombs, I'll probably go with something more traditional.

Destroy the Decimator and try to block Whisper's decloaks. What list did you have?

I was running Kenkirk with Palp, Omega Leader, and Wampa. It wasn't a great list, and I didn't fly particularly well with the Ties, but Kenkirk did a lot of work.

The most frustrating part of both matches is that the Decimators were never an issue in either - they did almost no damage, and were never a significant enough threat except for Palpatine. It was all Whisper.

For the points value he has, he really should fall under the "half points for half damage" rule - he's far too tanky as is.

Phantoms don't like:

(1) Blocking. Lots of low PS ships can do this; Whisper is easier to block than Echo.

(2) Stress. This shuts down the recloak action.

(3) Higher PS (or equal PS lost initiative). VI Poe, VI Vader, etc; or an init bid at equal PS.

(4) Damage that bypasses shields -- Proton Bombs, Advanced Homing Missiles, etc. One crit that flips to a Direct Hit past shields and by-by Phantom.

(5) Lots of dice. Green dice do eventually fail. Mass your firing arcs.

(6) TLTs. Cheap way at #5, and the Phantom's maneuverability doesn't matter. Watch out for Sensor Jammer Phantoms, though, since that's the Phantom TLT counter.

Destroy the Decimator and try to block Whisper's decloaks. What list did you have?

I was running Kenkirk with Palp, Omega Leader, and Wampa. It wasn't a great list, and I didn't fly particularly well with the Ties, but Kenkirk did a lot of work.

The most frustrating part of both matches is that the Decimators were never an issue in either - they did almost no damage, and were never a significant enough threat except for Palpatine. It was all Whisper.

For the points value he has, he really should fall under the "half points for half damage" rule - he's far too tanky as is.

Wampa and OL are pretty much the best phantom counters in the game. Initiative with a lot of dice can help too.