So I expect this to be an interesting Discussion Time.

The question is simple. In your opinion, what is the weakest commander and why?

I currently think Screed is the Weakest on the Imperial side with Garm on the Rebel side. Now while both are good they are becoming less useful with cards like Ordnance Experts and people running MSU lists.

Anyone you don't bother to build a list around.

Garm is still the Go-To for those who want flexibility above all else. Especially with Squadron Commands and Activations.

Because otherwise, the only indication of "Weakest" you have is the points Costs...

Which immediately make Dodonna and Ozzel the weakest Admirals...

there is nothing weak about the big D!

Anyone you don't bother to build a list around.

Garm is still the Go-To for those who want flexibility above all else. Especially with Squadron Commands and Activations.

Because otherwise, the only indication of "Weakest" you have is the points Costs...

Which immediately make Dodonna and Ozzel the weakest Admirals...

Man Dodonna is SO much better than Ozzel it stinks as an imperial player. When you play against Ozzel you know what can happen and can kind of adapt your maneuvers. But with Dodonna, you never want criticals. He can really change the outcome of a game.

My pick for the OP would be Ozzel.

Have you seen my Dodonna list! It is so mean!

From an old Sun Tzu's extract of The Art of War : "The weakest commander in Star Wars Armada is the one that you are not good enough to use efficiently."

To me, in the Imperial side, it's probably Ozzel. He's so strange comared to other commanders' benefits that I probably won't be good enough to use his benefit properly. I definitely think that there is potential for him with ISD 1, Raiders and Gladiators when you want to hit the brakes hard and not overshoot your target, but I don't see him used that much to find his benefits.

Dodonna is probably the hardest Rebel commander to use, as building around him is not necessary the best way to do it, but building around getting through to the hull and getting rewarded for that is interesting. He's probably the most Vanilla commander for the Rebels.

I dunno, I'd like to think the person rolling the dice might be in the running.... :-b

I dunno, I'd like to think the person rolling the dice might be in the running.... :-b

I just won a tournament with an Ozzel list today. I also got third in store champs with an Ozzel list...so how is he the weakest? lol.

I've won 7 straight tourney games right now and 6 of them were Ozzel.

Weakest Imperial Admiral IMO is Darth Vader. And I don't say that cause his ability sucks, but because his ability is costed too expensive for what it also costs you in defense tokens.

In my limited Imperial experience Ozzel is my favorite Imperial commander because of the flexibility he gives. I value adaptability above all else in Armada and Ozzel fits that nicely. I'll have to give the OP question some more thought.

Darth is the weakest imperial in my opinion because he has to much cost associated with his sorta situational ability. Every time I use try and use him I end up switching him for SCREED(still the best in my opinion) because I can get a similar ability without spending Defensive tokens and I can gain another upgrade or 2

And as an imperial I will say Garm is the weakest rebel, he simply doesn't have enough impact on the game to matter to me, especially since you can generally get 1 token turn 1 and the way I play tends to end games before turn 5.

I just won a tournament with an Ozzel list today. I also got third in store champs with an Ozzel list...so how is he the weakest? lol.

I've won 7 straight tourney games right now and 6 of them were Ozzel.

Weakest Imperial Admiral IMO is Darth Vader. And I don't say that cause his ability sucks, but because his ability is costed too expensive for what it also costs you in defense tokens.

Heresy!! Vader is amaze balls. I thought he was terrible, until I tried those rerolls on the table. Yes, he is expensive in terms of points and defence tokens. But wow that guy can hit hard. Try it with an ISD-1 and GSDs to taste.

I just won a tournament with an Ozzel list today. I also got third in store champs with an Ozzel list...so how is he the weakest? lol.

I've won 7 straight tourney games right now and 6 of them were Ozzel.

Weakest Imperial Admiral IMO is Darth Vader. And I don't say that cause his ability sucks, but because his ability is costed too expensive for what it also costs you in defense tokens.

Heresy!! Vader is amaze balls. I thought he was terrible, until I tried those rerolls on the table. Yes, he is expensive in terms of points and defence tokens. But wow that guy can hit hard. Try it with an ISD-1 and GSDs to taste.

GSD gets Ordnance Experts. 4 points. In my experience i can't justify the very high cost for a very situational use. Ozzel is also situational but he is waaaay cheaper

Vader is a finesse Commander. So far my dual ISD list has torn lists apart and the only reason I even lost was due to a mistake on my part. Average of 8 damage an attack plus accuracy on a gunnery teams and XI7 Turbolasers platform with good speed control and you will have fun

Vader is a finesse Commander. So far my dual ISD list has torn lists apart and the only reason I even lost was due to a mistake on my part. Average of 8 damage an attack plus accuracy on a gunnery teams and XI7 Turbolasers platform with good speed control and you will have fun

From an old Sun Tzu's extract of The Art of War : "The weakest commander in Star Wars Armada is the one that you are not good enough to use efficiently."

Precisely. Mon Mothma is awesome for slippery MSU lists but almost useless if you're centering your list around an Independence carrier.

ALTHOUGH...there may be an argument here for Rieeken. He's weak insofar as he won't get you far in a tournament. If you're playing casually or in a league where MOV doesn't matter, he's awesome, but from what I've seen the strategy he encourages won't get you a lot of Tourney points. I'd be happy to be proven wrong, of course.

Also, I would say that Dodonna and Garm are by far the most flexible. You CAN build your list around them, but you don't HAVE to.

From an old Sun Tzu's extract of The Art of War : "The weakest commander in Star Wars Armada is the one that you are not good enough to use efficiently."

Precisely. Mon Mothma is awesome for slippery MSU lists but almost useless if you're centering your list around an Independence carrier.

ALTHOUGH...there may be an argument here for Rieeken. He's weak insofar as he won't get you far in a tournament. If you're playing casually or in a league where MOV doesn't matter, he's awesome, but from what I've seen the strategy he encourages won't get you a lot of Tourney points. I'd be happy to be proven wrong, of course.

I've played mostly with Vader at 400 points and he is quite fun !

While Screed benefits the black dice, Vader benefits all dice especially red and blues (blues because it's going to be easier to get shots due to a much wider coverage). Vader and Black dice don't synergize as much because getting into range is not guaranteed, which is why Screed is a superior commander to guarantee triggering a crit effect in black dice range (and converting a potential whiff into double damage).

Leading shots is a good ability too, but keeping that extra/damage accuracy while not having to spend it is quite worth it. I think Leading shots is much better served on a ship that throws more red dice than blue dice, for instance a MC80 Assault Cruiser (with Ackbar ).

Like Lyraeus said he is a finesse commander for non finesse ships. The fact that you can happily reroll your throw to fish for the combination of dice you want is pretty powerful. Where he is particularily interesting, is when rolling "average" numbers of dice : using Leading Shots on a ISD front arc might yield similar results to Vader with only a 12.5% loss in firepower, but using Leading shot on an ISD 2 side arc is reducing your firepower by 25%. And when you're at red range, leading shots doesn't help.

A Corvette confident enough to belive that it's survived simply because it's escaped your front arc and ends in medium range of your side arc is going to be very surprised when you reveal a squadron command, throw 4 TIE fighters and finish it with 4 rerollable dice using the contain token.

Or, XX-9 Turbolasers at long range fishing for that crit after a squadron activation from an ISD 2's front arc.

Vader is a finesse Commander. So far my dual ISD list has torn lists apart and the only reason I even lost was due to a mistake on my part. Average of 8 damage an attack plus accuracy on a gunnery teams and XI7 Turbolasers platform with good speed control and you will have fun

I run motto ISDs with Leading shots and average 8 damage a shot

So Motti and a Leading Shot is 28 points. A second is 32 and if you have a third or Ordnance Experts it is 36. You also can't mitigate at long range which is sometimes all you get.

I do however feel that Vader might be the most limiting of the Imperial Commanders. He seems to especially shine in Dual ISD fleets, but I'm not sure he is the best choice in other lists. I've got a french vassal tourney up soon where I'll play him with an ISD 2, a VSD 2 and a Raider 2 and see how we go from here !

Admiral Piett because of his zero contribution to the game of Armada.

I say General Riekien is the weakest. His effect only triggers when you have a ship or named squadron destroyed. He does nothing at all if you fail to meet his trigger, and if you do trigger him, you are still losing his points. I think he also the least played commander based on my observations.

Darth is the weakest imperial in my opinion because he has to much cost associated with his sorta situational ability. Every time I use try and use him I end up switching him for SCREED(still the best in my opinion) because I can get a similar ability without spending Defensive tokens and I can gain another upgrade or 2

And as an imperial I will say Garm is the weakest rebel, he simply doesn't have enough impact on the game to matter to me, especially since you can generally get 1 token turn 1 and the way I play tends to end games before turn 5.

Completely agree, you almost always collect a token per ship turn one.

So my list that has 2 command 3 ships and 2 command one ships only get a net gain of 4 tokens in round 1 from Garm.

In regards to round five; I've generally, won or lost in round 4, only got half my ships left, can only get limited use of the tokens on those ships anyway or run out of time and finished the game.....

I could get a bank of 4 tokens by spending 12 points on 4 vet captains and still get a cool commander like MM ( unique defensive ability for my 4 ships) the big D ( unique offensive ability for my 4 ships) or AA (gives me a potential extra 12 red dice a turn from one set of arcs, that's 3 points a red dice). I don't use any officers so I could fit the 4 vet captains in (really the more I think about this the better it sounds.....it could have saved my bacon a number of times).

Can't comment on imps as never really played them....