I've got a fleet that really likes going first. It's at 397 right now and I'd like to get that down. The question is - how far? What's a good point value to shoot for?

If it helps, I'm Rebels and I want to go first so my MC30 can shoot & scoot.

Depends on your meta and how much you want to go first...

I find 90-95 to be pretty good bids for going first but recently I have been running a Raider swarm + demolisher that I HAVE to go first with. My bid with that is 387 and I'm thinking of dropping it to 85

So it is kinda just perspective...

I have CR90B swarm that similarly wants to go first. I run it at 384. That's my biggest bid. Usually I'll shoot for the 390 range if I'm bidding.

The problem is, it depends very heavily on what everybody else is doing. And nobody else can tell you what that is.

I'm at 394, and I go first almost all of the time. If you absolutely need to go first, definitely go a little bit lower. If you like to go first, but really need that key upgrade 392-4 should see you go first plenty.

I figured with the points increase, most bids would increase. In my meta most people seem to have just taking those extra points to the bank to get use out of them.

The way I see It if your spending more then 3 point that's an upgrade that could help you win the game

I don't like to build lists that depend on me going second. I just build for almost all possibilities.

A bidding war among my opponents only benefits me as I find they will have less to hurt my list with

I would bid in the low 390s to go first but also play some games as second player so you know what to do when some wisenheimer shows up with a 376 list.

In my meta, 389-390 is the proper amount to ensure going first with relative safety.

My question is though, what tweaks could you make to your playstyle that going second doesn't put you at such a huge disadvantage ?

The rule of thumb I should tatoo on my opponents' foreheads is : as Armada is a game of planning, when I go first, I guess the opponent's move one turn ahead, and when going second I estimate his moves 2 turns ahead. Then I try to trap him with a bait and a surprising move (which doesn't exclude going down to speed 0. Yep ).

In the land of 350 point bids, the 400 point man is King.

Okay I'm lost...the hell is this "bidding" thingy?

Yes, yes, this fleet does very well going second but even better going first.

Okay I'm lost...the hell is this "bidding" thingy?

How many points behind 400 you are - and thus you get to choose going first or second.

Its the amount of points you don't put into your list in order to win initiative at the start of the game. This lets you either go 2nd and get the benefits of some nasty objective cards, or more importantly, 1st in order to employ some of the nastier ships out there to their full potential, like Demolisher or the MC30. This can be really nasty if you also have activation advantage (more ships) than your opponent.

Eh I have my points tied up in ships/squadrons/upgrades.

Eh I have my points tied up in ships/squadrons/upgrades.

Bidding for second is a perfectly viable strategy. Most of my fleets have used that - this is the first where I actually am trying to go for first.

10. You'll roll off worst case. Or the other player is being "fun".

I generally build in the 394 to 398 range. My local meta seems to be 399 or 400 mostly. My list's objectives are all bad, more bad, worser more bad for my opponent to choose if they want to go first. As people have been gaining experience, I'm finding that a large MoV from tabling or otherwise out-killing your opponent is much harder. Objectives with bonus points give me a better chance of building a bigger MoV with a fleet that really shouldn't be flying straight into the face of my opponents.

Eh I have my points tied up in ships/squadrons/upgrades.

Bidding for second is a perfectly viable strategy. Most of my fleets have used that - this is the first where I actually am trying to go for first.

Speaking of bidding for second...

It all depends. It increases size with importance to the list.

It increases in a meta with bids.

It increases in an unknown meta in a high stakes game (tourney)

8 is what I aim for for. This is on the generous side. 10-12 in tourney or away. This counters farmiliar faces countering me or an unknown meta.

I saw a bid of 12 because he knew his friend was bidding 11, that was cold.

I don't like to build lists that depend on me going second. I just build for almost all possibilities.

A bid isn't to go second, but to make the choice to play first or second. Sometimes the choice is to take away an opponents option to be first.

I don't like to build lists that depend on me going second. I just build for almost all possibilities.

A bid isn't to go second, but to make the choice to play first or second. Sometimes the choice is to take away an opponents option to be first.

My current tournament list is a squadron heavy, 2 ship list with Demolisher.

Yeah, I like to go first for just about every reason. In this case, a modest bid (9 pts) is worth more than any 1-2 upgrades in that price range, and there are things I can cut to make room for other stuff if I need to.

I face off against a 4 ship build with Demolisher and an 11 point bid. The upgrades that I could add for 12 points is worthless if I end up playing second as I will often take 4 Red, 10 Black and 2/3 APT criticals all aimed at the same hull zone before I get to activate a ship.

In my meta a bid can be quite high.

Easy... Build a list that can be played well with all 3 missions you pick or as first player..if you need to get the bid and pick first I would suggest 10 points, most people would tend to take the extra fighter or juicey upgrade at this level so I've never seen a bid go higher than 10 ( in fact I think the highest I've seen was 9 points).

Ive started (from a dedicated first) going second player anyway, so use my 8 point bid to get this.

I'd say 5-10 points, depending on how badly you want it. Bidding more than 10 points can really put you at a disadvantage, especially if someone else still undercuts you. If you know your meta, you can make a better guess. The people I've been playing with rarely bid more than 5-6 points and then they usually choose to go second for the advantage of having their objective chosen. I usually just decide how important it is to me that my objectives are chosen. If it is important for my build to perform well, I'll bid hard up to 10 points and choose to be second player. If it doesn't make a big difference if I go first or second, I'll usually get as close to 400 as possible.

I generally build in the 394 to 398 range. My local meta seems to be 399 or 400 mostly. My list's objectives are all bad, more bad, and worser more bad for my opponent to choose if they want to go first. As people have been gaining experience, I'm finding that a large MoV from tabling or otherwise out-killing your opponent is much harder. Objectives with bonus points give me a better chance of building a bigger MoV with a fleet that really shouldn't be flying straight into the face of my opponents.

This strategy made one opponent decide to give up first player, and the objective points in the one game where I went second gave me a solid 10-0.

Harder Baby Harder

I won all my bids yesterday at 393. Store Championship looks like most people in Philadelphia were running 397 +- 2 points.