Edit: that's supposed to say APT, not ACM. Sorry for the confusion.

Has anyone crunched the numbers and figured out the average damage output of one over the other? Or, more simply, would you rather give them a face up or to chew through their shields quicker (and give them a face up anyways if you roll enough double blacks)?

Honestly? HTTs.

You're not getting a Reliable ACC to shut the brace down... So Punish the hell out of them for it... They either brace and take all the damage on one shield, resembling XI7s superficially... or they Brace and do something else, in which case, your Ludicrous amount of Damage is still Ludicrous Damage-1...

And it will still give you the Default Crit if you hit the Hull...

Honestly? HTTs.

You're not getting a Reliable ACC to shut the brace down... So Punish the hell out of them for it... They either brace and take all the damage on one shield, resembling XI7s superficially... or they Brace and do something else, in which case, your Ludicrous amount of Damage is still Ludicrous Damage-1...

And it will still give you the Default Crit if you hit the Hull...

Sound great...but I'm not sure if I want to spend 50 bucks just for one card...though on paper your answer does make the most sense

Honestly? HTTs.

You're not getting a Reliable ACC to shut the brace down... So Punish the hell out of them for it... They either brace and take all the damage on one shield, resembling XI7s superficially... or they Brace and do something else, in which case, your Ludicrous amount of Damage is still Ludicrous Damage-1...

And it will still give you the Default Crit if you hit the Hull...

Sound great...but I'm not sure if I want to spend 50 bucks just for one card...though on paper your answer does make the most sense

That certainly is an issue, of course. If you don't have it, that discounts that...

So in that case... I'd probably go XI-7s if your choice is specifically between the two. It still makes most of the damage go on the one spot, and an MC30 is a Burst Damage dealer, not a paint sander

If you can reliably get Accuracy results somehow (Home One, potentially the MC30 Torpedo variant if you're feeling lucky with blue dice), I'd recommend the XI7s. I wouldn't recommend any of the Ordnance upgrades unless you're also bringing Ordnance Experts to reroll those black dice to go crit-fishing. If you are bringing Ordnance Experts, I'd recommend the Assault Proton Torpedoes over the Assault Concussion Missiles for the reliable hull damage (plus it seems like most heavier Rebel ships bring the XI7s, and they work better with APTs than ACMs). Otherwise I agree that Heavy Turbolaser Turrets are your best bet for token mitigation. Turbolaser Reroute Circuits are your best bet for just raw damage on the MC30 Scout variant and are applicable from more ranges.

If you want Heavy Turbolaser Turrets, you can buy them individually on eBay for about $5 apiece last I checked. No need to put down $50 on an ISD if you're a Rebels-only kind of guy.

I'd say XI7s are more reliable for sure, as their effect always happens, whereas ACMs require a certain die face. I suppose the same is true for XI7s, in that you need more than one damage for them to matter, but getting hits/crits between all your dice is much more likely than getting a hit-crit on your black dice.

Well I personally prefer the X17s as in each of the 3 times I have used Acms on a VSD-1 I have been destroyed before I had a chance to use it or rolled either just damage or blanks (even with Ordanance experts!).

EDIT. What I wrote doesn't make any sort of sense -doesn't matter now anyway as ACM was not part of the topic

XI-7 ($20) / HTT ($50) and APT for going right for hull.

TRC and ACM for DAMAGE!

5 bucks on EBay you say...ok, now the discussion is APT (not ACM, that was a typo!) vs XI7 vs HTT. Drasnighta had me leaning towards HTT. Anyone else?

If you're using them together: XI7s and APTs.

If you're only using one of them: HTTs.

It might also help to know if you're running the Scout Frigate (red dice) or Torpedo Frigate (blue dice).

I was thinking scout frigate with OE.

I was thinking scout frigate with OE.

If that's the case, then you want TRCs.

I was thinking scout frigate with OE.

I agree with shmitty that Turbolaser Reroute Circuits are probably the best turbolaser upgrade at that point. Lets your long-ranged shots do some work early on and once those Evades are useless, just chew them up to make your short-ranged attacks ugly. If that doesn't appeal, then I'd say Heavy Turbolaser Turrets.

Either way, add in some Assault Proton Torpedoes. You don't want your 1-2 turns of glory to result in no hull damage! Plus some of those crit flops are just ugly.

I am so happy I collect both sides.

Don't rely on a torpedo frigate's blues for that accuracy. One/two blues is not enough to get an accuracy consistently. In half a dozen games I think I've gotten 2 or 3 accuracy results, total.

This is just my personal experience, but when I took HTTs to a tournament recently I never got use out of them, and significantly regretted not taking XI7.

XI7 definitely shuts down one defense token. HTT has a bigger effect - if someone uses Brace and something else, but they can still use just Brace, or any other two tokens.

I like XI7 Turbolasers still. With or without accuracy, the XI7's still work. When you have an average of 5 damage you are in the positive with XI7's, brace or no brace.

Why not both?

Why not both?

Sometimes we can't have everything we want

Why not both?

probably explains why my mc30's are so expensive

probably explains why my mc30's are so expensive

My limited experience using torpedo frigates is that they dish out tremendous damage which is immediately braced down to an amount that is less than devastating. Next time I use them I think I will try HTT.

My limited experience using torpedo frigates is that they dish out tremendous damage which is immediately braced down to an amount that is less than devastating. Next time I use them I think I will try HTT.

But they'll still Brace, no? How about Intel Officer?

My limited experience using torpedo frigates is that they dish out tremendous damage which is immediately braced down to an amount that is less than devastating. Next time I use them I think I will try HTT.

But they'll still Brace, no? How about Intel Officer?

I think people are valuing survivability officers (Lando/Wallex) over Intel. Believe me, drop one of these bad boys on the table and everyone starts shooting at it.